Speaking in Tongues -- Modern Days

Xalith

Newbie
Apr 6, 2015
1,518
630
✟19,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
So, I've been seeing here-and-there in threads (the latest, being the thread about Sunday worship), that people talk about Speaking in Tongues as being "evidence" of baptism by the Holy Spirit.

Now, I don't want to commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, nor do I want to judge those who claim to be saved because they are using speaking in tongues as evidence of their salvation, however I would like to point a few things out.

First, we have to look at the reason why the Gift of Tongues is a thing. Way back during the days of the Apostles and the Early Church, you had at least 3 main languages spoken in the same area (when Jesus was crucified, the sign on his cross was written in 3 different languages): Hebrew, Latin, and Greek. There were probably more languages, such as Egyptian, Ethiopian, etc. With the multicultural cities (like Corinth), you would oftentimes have people with different languages in the same area, but very few people to spread the gospel. Some people like Paul would have known at least two languages (he was born a Roman citizen, but to Jewish ancestry so he probably knew Hebrew and Latin or Greek even before he received the Holy Spirit), but the rest might not have.

Therefore, it'd be common sense that if you've only got a few people and you've got all of these languages being spoken at the time, that you would need people to not only speak in other languages, but also for people to interpret -- some had the gift of speaking, some had the gift of interpretation. In fact, Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 12-14 that speaking in Tongues does very little good whatsoever if there isn't someone there to interpret what you're saying. He'd rather we speak ten thousand words in a normal language than one sentence in Tongues, as people would understand the normal language and be edified, unless of course there was an interpreter there.

Secondly, a lot of apostate churches out there today use things like "Speaking in Tongues" as "Evidence" of the Holy Spirit's visitation... you'll see ridiculous things, like people breaking out into uncontrollable laughter, rolling around on the floor, falling over backwards, etc making a big show out of it. Sometimes they bark like dogs, and make other animal noises. This doesn't sound like the Holy Spirit to me, to be honest, but something entirely different and a lot of preachers call them out on this (rightly so). They make a huge show of people getting "The Holy Spirit" and they make a huge show out of people babbling nonsense and laughing, and making animal noises... meanwhile, nobody at these churches are preaching Christ and Him crucified.

Thirdly, Christ Himself tells us how to determine if someone is a Born-Again Christian: "You will know them by their fruits". Did they turn away from sin, or at least make an effort to turn their lives around? If so, then they probably are Born-Again. Are they continuing to partake of all of their habitual sin? Then probably not. Speaking in Tongues isn't necessarily "evidence" that someone is Born-Again. If it were, wouldn't Christ have also mentioned this in the same teachings where he talks about true believers?

Fourth, Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 12 that everybody receives different gifts from the Holy Spirit. Expecting everybody to "Speak in Tongues" as "evidence" of the Holy Spirit's indwelling is only going to make people question their own faith needlessly because they didn't get that gift. Yes, I'm sure some people who God plans on sending abroad might receive the Gift of Tongues, but surely He wouldn't give such a gift to someone who isn't going to need it? And He surely isn't going to give it to everybody, would He? He gives each person a gift, maybe multiple gifts, by what work He would have us do.

I myself, IRL, cannot speak in Tongues, nor can I interpret. But yet, I have faith that I am Born-Again, especially the kind of power He gave me to conquer some of my worst sins. If you would have told me last year that I would turn away from the majority of my sin within a couple months, I would have told you that you're crazy that I'd never give that stuff up. But here I am, I've given up many of the sinful things I used to do. I'm not perfect and/or sinless (nor will I be until I get to Heaven), but I have given up a Lot of sinful things, and I've had very little desire to even do that kinda stuff anymore. That's the kinda power the Holy Spirit has, that I think a lot of people seem to forget.

So instead of looking for "Speaking in Tongues" (I'm sure a demon possession could do the same... but again I don't want to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, so I'm not going to judge who has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and who is possessed by a demon) as evidence, we should really be doing what Christ Himself instructed us to do -- look for their fruits. Speaking in Tongues does nothing unless someone can understand what you're saying. God doesn't need you to speak in tongues to pray effectively; He knows what you're going to say before you even say it.

So... can we please stop using "Speaking in Tongues" as "Evidence" as to whether or not someone is Saved or Born-Again?

I don't want to see a believer unnecessarily doubting their salvation because they can't speak in tongues because everybody around them seems to think they should be doing so, nor do I want a believer being deceived by an apostate church that uses speaking in tongues as such evidence.

Let's focus on the main thing Christ instructed us to do -- Repentance and turning away from sin. THAT's the Evidence we should be yearning for.
 

dragongunner

Newbie
Jul 30, 2012
728
197
Indiana
✟9,578.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
You could probably ask any question and learn a little if you posted over at the pentecostal/ assembly of God thread.

I was in a certain pentecostal church organization that firmly believed that unless you spoke in tongues you didn't have the Holy Ghost baptism and thus was not saved. My own pastor who did speak in tongues did not agree with this and was at odds with that organization. Salvation is not determined if you speak in tongues. Tongues however is a sign of the baptism of the Holy Ghost however. I read what you are saying and would like to tell you that speaking in tongues and having that as a prayer language is different than the "Gift of Tongues", that gift is for speaking a message from God to the people, which then requires a person that has the "Gift of Interprtation" to give what the message said. There are people who speak in tongues but but may never be used or blessed with the "gift of tongues" to give a message to the congregation.

I have seen people who have bursted out in laughter, and or great joy because of the Holy Ghost, some call it being drunk in the Spirit for no better word I guess. I have seen people slain in the Spirit for no better word, fall to the floor that should of killed them with no injuries, and some when they awoke were healed of their sickness or problem. So don't ever count out what the Holy Ghost can, or can not do. Do some people fake some things, or try and go overboard…..I could only assume so although I have never seen this.

My hope is that you are not offended by those who have experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit, are moved by it and may speak in tongues and other signs such as healings, miracles…….


Your quote "Tongues does nothing unless someone can understand what you're saying. God doesn't need you to speak in tongues to pray effectively; He knows what you're going to say before you even say it."

This statement is very rude, and sadly shows other things wrong I won't mention. If God doesn't need us, or want us to speak in tongues...then why did he give it out, you seem to have some private insight in this, can you explain why you believe and trying to teach this?

The Purpose Of Speaking In Tongues
Spiritual edification - 1 Corinthians 14:4, Jude 20
Speaking divine mysteries - 1 Corinthians 14:2
To magnify God - Acts 10:46
Praying according to the will of God - Romans 8:26,27
Giving thanks - 1 Corinthians 14:17
Strengthening our inner man - Ephesians 3:16
A sign to unbelievers - 1 Corinthians 14:22; Mark 16:17
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Aug 24, 2014
203
53
✟8,110.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I don't want to see a believer unnecessarily doubting their salvation because they can't speak in tongues


This was the right forum to post this...a safe forum....where many feel the same way regarding this doctrine.

Regarding the "Gift of Tongues": I have not heard of anyone outside of the Apostles speaking in one language to a group of people who speak different languages. I don't deny the gift but I don't see it in operation today.

Regarding speaking/praying in tongues: I have not heard of anyone speaking in tongues being edified by it. They have no clue what they are saying but believe God knows, which is fine by me. The problem is they often want me to recognize/honor it in them.

If speaking in tongues was a sign of the baptism of the Spirit, I think it would be universal.

Nicodemus had a similar question, and Jesus said.....John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

I think we believe what God shows us is true, rather than what men say is true. If men don't like it they can lump it.

(just my 2 cents/opinion)
 
Upvote 0

Svt4Him

Legend
Site Supporter
Oct 23, 2003
16,711
1,132
52
Visit site
✟53,618.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Speaking in tongues was a sign, but it is still a gift. If being able to drive in BC when you're 16 is a gift, it doesn't mean everyone who turns 16 will drive, some will chose not to. Do you know why people say it's a sign?

What happened in Acts is interesting as I think the gift of interpretation was given, as every man heard them in their own language.

As for edification, I'd tend to side with the Bible on that one.

Tongues of angels are not known languages.

And no, I don't think you must speak in tongues to be saved, but I'd never minimize a gift from God.
 
Upvote 0

dragongunner

Newbie
Jul 30, 2012
728
197
Indiana
✟9,578.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Speaking in tongues was a sign, but it is still a gift. If being able to drive in BC when you're 16 is a gift, it doesn't mean everyone who turns 16 will drive, some will chose not to. Do you know why people say it's a sign?

What happened in Acts is interesting as I think the gift of interpretation was given, as every man heard them in their own language.

As for edification, I'd tend to side with the Bible on that one.

Tongues of angels are not known languages.

And no, I don't think you must speak in tongues to be saved, but I'd never minimize a gift from God.


The book of Acts that you are referring to, there was no need of interpretation, they began to speak in tongues, "as every man heard them in their own language." It was the passover when many Jews of many languages had gathered. The Apostles and disciples receiving the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues of many different languages unknown to them, but known to those who had gathered there. After my pastor had spoken in tongues during a worship service, a person from France asked when he had learned french, that he had spoken it perfect, magnifying God during worship. It just happened my pastor was speaking in tongues that was French, and it just happened that someone from France was there to hear it……same as in the book of Acts. Hope this helps explain a little.
 
Upvote 0

Svt4Him

Legend
Site Supporter
Oct 23, 2003
16,711
1,132
52
Visit site
✟53,618.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
"as every man heard them in their own language."

There is no indication in the Scriptures that every man heard at least one other person speaking the language they knew, the clear reading is everyone who heard them heard it in their own language. That to me seems to be a supernatural gift of interpretation.
 
Upvote 0

BrokenWarrior

Just a Messenger
Dec 29, 2014
245
50
Where ever my Lord's work is to be done.
✟8,157.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Don't worry about mistakenly Blaspheming the Holy Spirit. to Blasphemy the Holy Spirit, you need to acknowledge without a doubt the Holy Spirit Himself and then insult Him.

Questioning wether or not someone is of the Lord is no crime.

I had a thread about this in the Baptist sub-forum,I suggest searching it up. It should be titled something like "Question about Blaspheming The Holy Spirit" or "Did I Blasphemy the Holy Spirit?" Or something like that and is only a page or two down. Last couple pages on it I post my final conclusions.

Anyway,yes I believe it most certainly is possible to speak in tongues. But they are few and far between nowadays. Not nearly as many true Believers today,let alone the few out of that already small number who are gifted with the speech.

My 2 cence :)

-Your Brother In Christ
 
Upvote 0

dragongunner

Newbie
Jul 30, 2012
728
197
Indiana
✟9,578.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
"as every man heard them in their own language."

There is no indication in the Scriptures that every man heard at least one other person speaking the language they knew, the clear reading is everyone who heard them heard it in their own language. That to me seems to be a supernatural gift of interpretation.


You speak English…..you travel to Russia, and a Russian speaks tongues by the Holy Ghost, and this unknown tongue that he can't understand is English……you hear it, and because you understand English you understand it…..now did you have a supernatural gift of interpetation to understand your own language?

Acts 2

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
 
Upvote 0

Svt4Him

Legend
Site Supporter
Oct 23, 2003
16,711
1,132
52
Visit site
✟53,618.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
You speak English…..you travel to Russia, and a Russian speaks tongues by the Holy Ghost, and this unknown tongue that he can't understand is English……you hear it, and because you understand English you understand it…..now did you have a supernatural gift of interpetation to understand your own language?

And you're with me, but you speak German. And there's another there, and they speak Ukrainian. All three of us hear the same person and all three of us understand it in our own language.

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Everyone heard them speaking in their own language.
 
Upvote 0

dragongunner

Newbie
Jul 30, 2012
728
197
Indiana
✟9,578.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
And you're with me, but you speak German. And there's another there, and they speak Ukrainian. All three of us hear the same person and all three of us understand it in our own language.

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Everyone heard them speaking in their own language.

Yes, because the apostles and disiples were speaking different tongues, so that men from different parts each heard their own language being spoken. What your saying was not happening. Don't stop reading at verse 8. Every man heard his own tongue coming from one of the apostles or disciples that were speaking their language….not sure how you are not getting this. The men you keep saying had to have the gift of interpretation could not of, for done of them were even believers of Christ yet, nor had they even been filled with the Holy Ghost yet to of received the gift, and the gift of interpretation is to interpret a message from God, not to interpret someones prayer language. I can't think of any other way to explain it for you to understand, if you still don't see and understand there nothing more I can think of to explain it. God Bless.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

tturt

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 30, 2006
15,773
7,240
✟796,066.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
There's a "diversities of tongues" (I Cor 12:28) which includes the gift of tongues with interpretation (I Cor 12:10) and some refer to "prayer language (I Cor 14:14)."

In addition to Dragonrunner's post, some purposes for tongues includes self edification (I Cor 14:4);
church edification ( I Cor 14:27-28); builds up our faith and keeps us in the love of God (Jude 1: 20-21); and can pray in The Spirit (I Cor 14:14; Ephesians 6:18; Rom 8:26-27; 1 Corinthians 14:4,15).

All tongues can be interpreted (I Cor 14:13).

Tongues are a sign TO unbelievers OF believers (I Cor 14:22 and Mark 16:17)

It's a surrendering to Yahweh ---
"But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison." James 3:8
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Svt4Him

Legend
Site Supporter
Oct 23, 2003
16,711
1,132
52
Visit site
✟53,618.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Nope, all tongues can't be interpreted, 1 Cor 14 is specific to a church setting and edifying the body. If it's not interpreted it doesn't benefit the body so don't do it. That's not a good way to do an exegeses.

17 And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues;

I wonder sometimes, if these are signs of those who believe, and we're not seeing them...are they not signs and God got it wrong or...
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,813
10,794
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟831,704.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
So, I've been seeing here-and-there in threads (the latest, being the thread about Sunday worship), that people talk about Speaking in Tongues as being "evidence" of baptism by the Holy Spirit.

Now, I don't want to commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, nor do I want to judge those who claim to be saved because they are using speaking in tongues as evidence of their salvation, however I would like to point a few things out.

You wouldn't be blaspheming The Holy Spirit by asking genuine questions or making comments on the basis of what you have observed. Jesus referred to it because religious leaders were accusing Him of doing his miracles by the power of the devil. He warned them about the blasphemy of The Holy Spirit, but He did not actually accuse them of it. You can comment on those who say that a person had to speak in tongues because people need to oppose that lie.

First, we have to look at the reason why the Gift of Tongues is a thing. Way back during the days of the Apostles and the Early Church, you had at least 3 main languages spoken in the same area (when Jesus was crucified, the sign on his cross was written in 3 different languages): Hebrew, Latin, and Greek. There were probably more languages, such as Egyptian, Ethiopian, etc. With the multicultural cities (like Corinth), you would oftentimes have people with different languages in the same area, but very few people to spread the gospel. Some people like Paul would have known at least two languages (he was born a Roman citizen, but to Jewish ancestry so he probably knew Hebrew and Latin or Greek even before he received the Holy Spirit), but the rest might not have.

Therefore, it'd be common sense that if you've only got a few people and you've got all of these languages being spoken at the time, that you would need people to not only speak in other languages, but also for people to interpret -- some had the gift of speaking, some had the gift of interpretation. In fact, Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 12-14 that speaking in Tongues does very little good whatsoever if there isn't someone there to interpret what you're saying. He'd rather we speak ten thousand words in a normal language than one sentence in Tongues, as people would understand the normal language and be edified, unless of course there was an interpreter there.

But that is not how Paul is teaching the gift of tongues. Interpretation is not translation. Because tongues is prayer in the spirit directed to God, in a meeting where someone speaks in tongues, it can be an intercession for the gift of prophecy to be released. If Paul meant translation, he would have used the word. But he used interpretation, and that discounts the possibility that tongues are meant to be common, understandable languages. Tongues are languages understandable to God, and they don't have to be understandable to people. Therefore the interpretation is the result of the utterance in tongues not the translation of it.

Although there have been documented events where someone has spoken in tongues and another person from an obscure African village has heard God speak in his own dialect, the person speaking in the tongue having no idea of what he was speaking. This happened in one of our church meetings to a close friend of mine. I was speaking in tongues during a prayer service and a New Zealand Maori lady heard God talking to her through me in her own language, and I had no idea that I was speaking that language.

Secondly, a lot of apostate churches out there today use things like "Speaking in Tongues" as "Evidence" of the Holy Spirit's visitation... you'll see ridiculous things, like people breaking out into uncontrollable laughter, rolling around on the floor, falling over backwards, etc making a big show out of it. Sometimes they bark like dogs, and make other animal noises. This doesn't sound like the Holy Spirit to me, to be honest, but something entirely different and a lot of preachers call them out on this (rightly so). They make a huge show of people getting "The Holy Spirit" and they make a huge show out of people babbling nonsense and laughing, and making animal noises...

I would agree that in any revival situation, there are excesses. They happened in the Welsh Revival and in every other documented revival. Even Jonathan Edwards in the 18th Century recognised this and wrote a book about it called "Religious Affections."

meanwhile, nobody at these churches are preaching Christ and Him crucified.

If you are talking about the Brownsville Revival then I have CDs with the senior pastors certainly preaching Christ crucified! And not all Pentecostal churches are like what you described. I have had many years either being a member of a Pentecostal/Charismitic church or in close association with friends within the movement, and I know that the central message of these church is certainly Christ and Him crucified.

Thirdly, Christ Himself tells us how to determine if someone is a Born-Again Christian: "You will know them by their fruits". Did they turn away from sin, or at least make an effort to turn their lives around? If so, then they probably are Born-Again. Are they continuing to partake of all of their habitual sin? Then probably not. Speaking in Tongues isn't necessarily "evidence" that someone is Born-Again. If it were, wouldn't Christ have also mentioned this in the same teachings where he talks about true believers?

Only a very small minority of Pentecostal churches believe that tongues is essential to salvation. I have had extensive experience of Pentecostal and Charismatic churches and I have never heard that preached in any of them. The only time I encountered that doctrine was from the pastor from a small outfit that was not part of the main stream. I spent three hours arguing the point with him, and ended up telling him that he was devaluing and blaspheming the blood of Christ by that doctrine. But he woulod

Fourth, Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 12 that everybody receives different gifts from the Holy Spirit. Expecting everybody to "Speak in Tongues" as "evidence" of the Holy Spirit's indwelling is only going to make people question their own faith needlessly because they didn't get that gift. Yes, I'm sure some people who God plans on sending abroad might receive the Gift of Tongues, but surely He wouldn't give such a gift to someone who isn't going to need it? And He surely isn't going to give it to everybody, would He? He gives each person a gift, maybe multiple gifts, by what work He would have us do.

Absolutely!

I myself, IRL, cannot speak in Tongues, nor can I interpret. But yet, I have faith that I am Born-Again, especially the kind of power He gave me to conquer some of my worst sins. If you would have told me last year that I would turn away from the majority of my sin within a couple months, I would have told you that you're crazy that I'd never give that stuff up. But here I am, I've given up many of the sinful things I used to do. I'm not perfect and/or sinless (nor will I be until I get to Heaven), but I have given up a Lot of sinful things, and I've had very little desire to even do that kinda stuff anymore. That's the kinda power the Holy Spirit has, that I think a lot of people seem to forget.

No problem with that!

So instead of looking for "Speaking in Tongues" (I'm sure a demon possession could do the same..

No doubt. And some occult spiritualist do. And pagan worshipers do as well. But they are doing it as ritual and they are not praying to their deity. Holy Spirit tongues is prayer to God in a language He understands and it is done chiefly in private with God, while spiritualists and pagans chant it publicly.

but again I don't want to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, so I'm not going to judge who has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and who is possessed by a demon) as evidence, we should really be doing what Christ Himself instructed us to do -- look for their fruits.
Absolutely.

Speaking in Tongues does nothing unless someone can understand what you're saying. God doesn't need you to speak in tongues to pray effectively; He knows what you're going to say before you even say it.

But it remains that The Holy Spirit used a whole chapter of the Bible to make sure that it was taught properly. It is significant to me that Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone else, and his words are now Scripture. Praying in tongues as Paul taught it (in private before God) does do something even though no one else understands it, because God does, and He is much more important to us than anyone else.

So... can we please stop using "Speaking in Tongues" as "Evidence" as to whether or not someone is Saved or Born-Again?

I don't want to see a believer unnecessarily doubting their salvation because they can't speak in tongues because everybody around them seems to think they should be doing so, nor do I want a believer being deceived by an apostate church that uses speaking in tongues as such evidence.

The vast majority of the millions of Pentecostals and Charismatics would agree with you with all their hearts!

Let's focus on the main thing Christ instructed us to do -- Repentance and turning away from sin. THAT's the Evidence we should be yearning for.

And ALL the gifts of The Holy Spirit as described in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 are designed to assist believers to do just that!
 
Upvote 0

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,813
10,794
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟831,704.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
This was the right forum to post this...a safe forum....where many feel the same way regarding this doctrine.

Regarding the "Gift of Tongues": I have not heard of anyone outside of the Apostles speaking in one language to a group of people who speak different languages. I don't deny the gift but I don't see it in operation today.

Neither have I. I am not surprised that you don't see the gift in operation because most of the effectiveness of the gift is in private with God. Where tongues is spoken in church services without interpretation it is not actually of the Spirit because it goes against what Paul taught about it in 1 Corinthians 14. Maybe you have witnessed only the misuse of tongues in public services, or have received hearsay information about it without really looking into the gift from a scriptural and historical perspective.

Regarding speaking/praying in tongues: I have not heard of anyone speaking in tongues being edified by it. They have no clue what they are saying but believe God knows, which is fine by me. The problem is they often want me to recognize/honor it in them.

You cannot tell whether people are edified or not because the edification of tongues is a personal and private thing, because the tongues which edifies is practiced in the secret place with God. But according to testimonies of many people who pray in tongues, they have reported that when they have done so over a period of time, they have noticed that their ministries have been more powerful and their insights into scripture more clear. I think that if a person has no personal experience with praying in tongues, then they don't know too much about it. If I wanted to know how to drive a motor car, I wouldn't go to get that knowledge from someone who had never driven one. I would go to a person who has had many years of experience in driving motor cars. It is the same with the gifts of the Spirit and praying in tongues. When I wanted to know more about it, I didn't go to people who never did it or didn't believe in it. I went to those who were experienced for many years in the prophetic and the gifts of the Spirit. Those are the people I learned from. I learned from a wise old pastor who when he ministered and prayed in tongues in a service, the glory of God came down and the most hardened sinners went on their faces crying like babies and coming to Christ. That was the type of person I learned from because I saw what happened when he prayed in tongues. All the theory in the world cannot beat what I saw and heard.

About getting others to honour or recognise it, in my experience, most Pentecostals and Charismatics don't worry about trying to convince others about it other than refuting the cessationists who don't believe in it, and assisting those who have genuine enquiries about how to receive it and use it rightly.

If speaking in tongues was a sign of the baptism of the Spirit, I think it would be universal.

Well, in the Early Church it was pretty universal, and quite common right up to the Fourth Century.

Nicodemus had a similar question, and Jesus said.....John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jesus was talking about being born again, not the use of the gifts of the Spirit, which were not even thought of until the Day of Pentecost.

I think we believe what God shows us is true, rather than what men say is true. If men don't like it they can lump it.

(just my 2 cents/opinion)

I agree, but you have to consider that 1 Corinthians 14, being inspired by The Holy Spirit to give us the right information about the gift of tongues is also true by your definition, wouldn't it? After all, it is Holy Scripture none the less, and it is there to be believed...surely?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Aug 24, 2014
203
53
✟8,110.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You cannot tell whether people are edified or not because the edification of tongues is a personal and private thing, because the tongues which edifies is practiced in the secret place with God


Wow, your whole response hit me in the right spot. It was edifying....thank you and praise God :)

I was thinking edification from speaking in tongues should be immediate, but from what you say it's like an answered prayer.

I hear Paul saying, "Covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues."
 
Upvote 0

Svt4Him

Legend
Site Supporter
Oct 23, 2003
16,711
1,132
52
Visit site
✟53,618.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Wow, your whole response hit me in the right spot. It was edifying....thank you and praise God :)

I was thinking edification from speaking in tongues should be immediate, but from what you say it's like an answered prayer.

I hear Paul saying, "Covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues."

This is how I understand it, prayer has a way of changing us, as I think speaking in tongues does as well.


 
Upvote 0

Job8

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2014
4,634
1,801
✟21,583.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So... can we please stop using "Speaking in Tongues" as "Evidence" as to whether or not someone is Saved or Born-Again?
Making tongues the evidence of being filled with the Spirit is a Pentecostal/Charismatic doctrine and it is false.

Since Paul said through Divine revelation that not all will speak in tongues and that tongues would also cease, and since Paul himseld did not speak in tongues at his conversion or his baptism, and he was cerainly filled with the Spirit when he began to preach Christ almost immediately after his conversion, it is quite clear that tongues is not the so-called "evidence" of being filled with the Spirit (or even being born again). If it were true then millions of Christians would be disqualifed from being filled with the Spirit.
 
Upvote 0

Svt4Him

Legend
Site Supporter
Oct 23, 2003
16,711
1,132
52
Visit site
✟53,618.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Making tongues the evidence of being filled with the Spirit is a Pentecostal/Charismatic doctrine and it is false.

Since Paul said through Divine revelation that not all will speak in tongues and that tongues would also cease, and since Paul himseld did not speak in tongues at his conversion or his baptism, and he was cerainly filled with the Spirit when he began to preach Christ almost immediately after his conversion, it is quite clear that tongues is not the so-called "evidence" of being filled with the Spirit (or even being born again). If it were true then millions of Christians would be disqualifed from being filled with the Spirit.

He also said knowledge would cease. Sometimes I wonder.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,813
10,794
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟831,704.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Making tongues the evidence of being filled with the Spirit is a Pentecostal/Charismatic doctrine and it is false.

Since Paul said through Divine revelation that not all will speak in tongues and that tongues would also cease, and since Paul himseld did not speak in tongues at his conversion or his baptism, and he was cerainly filled with the Spirit when he began to preach Christ almost immediately after his conversion, it is quite clear that tongues is not the so-called "evidence" of being filled with the Spirit (or even being born again). If it were true then millions of Christians would be disqualifed from being filled with the Spirit.
Not entirely correct. It is an Assembly of God doctrine. Not all Pentecostal/Charismatic churches teach that tongues is the evidence of being filled with the Spirit. No point tarring all P/C denominations just because one denomination has that doctrine.

However, you are treading on uncertain ground being so adamant that it is false, because the three events in the book of Acts led those who were there that tongues was the evidence for them that those people were baptised in The Holy Spirit. Because Luke says that they were filled with the Spirit, "for they spoke in tongues..etc."

You need to read the Bible correctly. Yes, Paul did say that tongues would cease along with prophecy and knowledge, but that was only when that which was perfect was come and we were able to know things completely instead of seeing through a glass darkly. That which is perfect has not yet come and we still have an imperfect view of Christ and of heavenly things. We still have to accept these things by faith, so while we are in our present condition, tongues, prophecy and knowledge are still current.

Don't give us that old chestnut about the canon of the New Testament being the perfect thing, because that would be building a doctrine of half an obscure verse, and that would violate the rules of hermaneutics and make one out to be a pelican instead of a credible Bible scholar.

Some pelican came up with the idea that tongues and prophecy declined when the last Apostle died because he was not prepared to accept that it was the upsurge of pagan philosophy and the decline of committment to Christ and holy living that caused The Holy Spirit to depart from the Church and left it just being a powerless religious, man directed organisation.

So, what evidence do you think supports a person saying they are filled with the Spirit then?
 
Upvote 0