LostMarbels

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strength: "mehode" means might, force, abundance. My point is some Christian priests in Syria are interpreting scripture in a way that permits their kin to fight in defense of their towns. The towns people are asking the priests for divine help and this is the outcome.
I think that is quite a stretch for that particular passage of scripture. However, make no mistake I will fight to protect my family, and the ones I love. with that being said, it would only be a the point of renouncing Jesus or be killed that I would lay down my life. I do not believe I am serving my God by allowing my family to be slaughtered. With the exception of denouncing Jesus. I will not denounce Jesus to save them, I will fight tho.
 
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Masihi

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I think that is quite a stretch for that particular passage of scripture. However, make no mistake I will fight to protect my family, and the ones I love. with that being said, it would only be a the point of renouncing Jesus or be killed that I would lay down my life. I do not believe I am serving my God by allowing my family to be slaughtered. With the exception of denouncing Jesus. I will not denounce Jesus to save them, I will fight tho.
agreed
 
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Arthra

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smaneck

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The problem with this is that not one verse in the new testament condones such actions. These people are misguided and do not represent Christ. Who told us to bless our enemies, and forgive our executioners as he did on the cross.

So are you opposed to Christian serving in the military or police?
 
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smaneck

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I think your missing the point that there will be no need to collect jiza, everyone is dead, and the spoils are so great there will be no need to accept charitable gifts.

No, I'm not. These ahadith only speak of fighting the Antichrist, not Jews or Christians. In fact, it indicates that once Jesus kills the Antichrist, then the Jews and Christians will recognize who he is. And contrary to your false representation those ahadith also say absolutely nothing about the spoils of war. What they say is that even without the jaziyah people will be so prosperous they will have no need for money.
 
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smaneck

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Apparently the result of a scurrilous e-mail campaign?

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/06/obamas-dreams-of-my-father/

The quote about standing with Muslims should things get ugly and they try to lock them up in concentration camps, etc. comes from Dreams of My Father.

The other statement is from a UN speech explained here:

“The future must not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam” is explained by snopes.com
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obamafuture.asp

It is from a speech he gave before the United Nations:

"The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt — it must be claimed by those in Tahrir Square who chanted, "Muslims, Christians, we are one." The future must not belong to those who bully women — it must be shaped by girls who go to school, and those who stand for a world where our daughters can live their dreams just like our sons.

The future must not belong to those corrupt few who steal a country's resources — it must be won by the students and entrepreneurs, the workers and business owners who seek a broader prosperity for all people. Those are the women and men that America stands with; theirs is the vision we will support.

The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches that are destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied. "
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obamafuture.asp#t1hoAMq4jXeXWiPh.99

Somehow it is only that one statement out of his speech that these "Christians" want to remember not the statements about the future not belonging to those who target Coptic Christians,or deny the Holocaust.
 
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smaneck

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However, make no mistake I will fight to protect my family, and the ones I love. with that being said, it would only be a the point of renouncing Jesus or be killed that I would lay down my life. I do not believe I am serving my God by allowing my family to be slaughtered. With the exception of denouncing Jesus. I will not denounce Jesus to save them, I will fight tho.

And that is precisely the position Muhammad took in relationship with his community. He did not believe he would serving God by allowing his community to be slaughtered. That was the purpose of jihad.
 
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LostMarbels

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No, I'm not. These ahadith only speak of fighting the Antichrist, not Jews or Christians. In fact, it indicates that once Jesus kills the Antichrist, then the Jews and Christians will recognize who he is. And contrary to your false representation those ahadith also say absolutely nothing about the spoils of war. What they say is that even without the jaziyah people will be so prosperous they will have no need for money.
I have cited my sources. Bust out some research and show me. I will dig deeper and re-respond.
 
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LostMarbels

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So are you opposed to Christian serving in the military or police?
No, I'm apposed to some idiot bombing an abortion clinic claiming Christianity. I'm apposed to a person claiming Christianity committing murder in Jesus name. Make no mistake. There are times when it is appropriate to kill in the defense of your family. Or your nation for that matter.
 
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smaneck

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I have cited my sources. Bust out some research and show me. I will dig deeper and re-respond.

You cited source, yes. But then you turned around and completely misrepresented what they said. They said nothing about slaughtering People of the Book nor did they say anything about getting rich off the spoils of war.
 
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LostMarbels

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I'm glad you agree. Muhammad agrees as well.
Times of war. and times of imminent threat to you family. Muhammad, and Islam is of no bearing to me.

You tell me what is going to be done to those who do not accept Islam?
 
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smaneck

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You tell me what is going to be done to those who do not accept Islam?

Are you asking for my interpretation? I believe the Return of Jesus Christ and the coming of the Mahdi was fulfilled with the coming of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. I believe Dajjal represents the 'ulama who have distorted the true teachings of Islam, and that the Baha'i Teachings will eventually overcome them. As for what happens to minorities, Baha'u'llah has prohibited jihad in this day, so killing them is out of the questions. But I do believe that eventually most everyone will accept this Revelation. It may well be that Christians will accept it before the bulk of Muslims do. Paul, after all, predicted that the dead in Christ will rise first.
 
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Masihi

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Times of war. and times of imminent threat to you family. Muhammad, and Islam is of no bearing to me.

You tell me what is going to be done to those who do not accept Islam?
No one follows quran more closely than the great Turkish president Erdogan!.. he wants to apply his muslim beliefs in a way that Bahai agree with (or disagree); there is so much disagreement in pure islam, i dont know which is which.
[Turk pres wants to unite muslim world and invade harmless israel]
 
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smaneck

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No one follows quran more closely than the great Turkish president Erdogan!..

Give me a break. The man is a total idiot. I expect any day now the Kemalists in the military will launch a coup.

there is so much disagreement in pure islam, i dont know which is which.

Yeah, kind of like Christianity, huh?
 
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mmksparbud

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Arabic (Islamic) calligraphy is the most beautiful form of calligraphy on earth. Many of the mosques, with the geometrical art, are moving and awe inspiring as well.

The United Arab Emirates and Qatar in terms of civility, prosperity, peace, and security are second-to-none on earth.

It strikes me as a manly religion, and for reasons I don't yet understand, it produces the most religiously faithful women on earth--in terms of fidelity to the umma. The umma being in concept the equivalent of the "invisible Church."


Yah--got to love how these women are treated. What a beautiful picture of love and fidelity. You can marry a one year old girl, you can have more than one wife, you can rape them, beat them, keep them from getting an education, keep them barefoot and pregnant and covered from head to foot, you are allowed to kill them for being raped, you are allowed to kill them for "dishonoring the family" in any way, they are not allowed to go to a male doctor but women are not allowed to become doctors,--the list goes on--yah--they're just happy, happy ignorant little sex toys for all those wonderful, brilliant men. Who could possibly want anything else?
 
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Masihi

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Yah--got to love how these women are treated. What a beautiful picture of love and fidelity. You can marry a one year old girl, you can have more than one wife, you can rape them, beat them, keep them from getting an education, keep them barefoot and pregnant and covered from head to foot, you are allowed to kill them for being raped, you are allowed to kill them for "dishonoring the family" in any way, they are not allowed to go to a male doctor but women are not allowed to become doctors,--the list goes on--yah--they're just happy, happy ignorant little sex toys for all those wonderful, brilliant men. Who could possibly want anything else?
I saw a quote yesterday on twitter from a muslim that went something like this: "Every muslim man must have a beaten woman on the side."
My greatest confusion comes when defenders interpret the quran in a harmless fashion but they cannot point to one public figure who follows the quran in like-manner.
Such as my conversation #255 and response #256, I thought Erdogan was highly admired as a muslim but she calls him an "idiot".

Give me a break. The man is a total idiot. I expect any day now the Kemalists in the military will launch a coup.
 
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smaneck

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Yah--got to love how these women are treated. What a beautiful picture of love and fidelity. You can marry a one year old girl,

What are you talking about? The minimum age for marriage in Qatar is 16. In the United Arab Emirates it is 18. And 70% of parents in these countries prefer their daughters wait until after they turn 21 and finish their college education first.

you can have more than one wife, you can rape them

You realize that raping your wife was legal in most states of the US prior to 1970? As for polygamy, yes a man may have more than one wife, but in Qatar that is legal grounds for divorce if the first wife doesn't approve. Polygamy is rare in Qatar but not infrequent in the United Arab Emirates. However, even the UAE requires the permission of all existing wives before a man can take an additional wife.

,
beat them, keep them from getting an education,

Domestic violence is a crime in Qatar and concerted efforts are made to persuade victims to report it. The Family Code of 2006 states explicitly that a woman has the right to be free from physical and mental harm at the hands of her husband. The government maintains an all-female police unit to deal with issues related to domestic violence, and it increased the hiring of female police officers in 2012. The Supreme Council for Family Affairs (SCFA) operates a shelter under the supervision of the Qatar Foundation to accommodate abused women and children, which provides a variety of services. The Qatar Foundation also opened an office in the attorney general’s office to improve case coordination on domestic violence with the public prosecutor.

The United Arab Emirates have not pursued this issue as vigorously, however.

But as far as education goes, far from being deprived, twice as many women receive a higher education in both Qatar and the United Arab Emirates as men.

keep them barefoot and pregnant

That is the one phrase I never allow my students to use when discussing gender issues. Its nothing more than a stereotypical slur.

you are allowed to kill them for being raped, you are allowed to kill them for "dishonoring the family" in any way

No, you are not. Nowhere does the shariah allow people to kill their family members. However, there is a "glitch" in the shariah that may prevent them from being adequately punished. All murders under Islamic law are qissas crimes, meaning the family of the victim may have the punishment of the perpetrator mitigated if they forgive him. Well, if the family is the perpetrator, what happens then?

they are not allowed to go to a male doctor but women are not allowed to become doctors,

What??? Are you confusing Qatar and the UAE with Afghanistan when it is was ruled by the Taliban? Met one Afghan and you know all Arabs, I guess.
Yes, women may be discouraged (though not by law) from seeing a male doctor, but for that very reason the proportion of female doctors in the Islamic world is much higher than the West.

--the list goes on--yah--they're just happy, happy ignorant little sex toys for all those wonderful, brilliant men. Who could possibly want anything else?

"Ignorant little sex toys" with a literacy rate of 95% and more higher education then the men. '
Any other prejudices you'd like to share with us?
 
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smaneck

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I saw a quote yesterday on twitter from a muslim that went something like this: "Every muslim man must have a beaten woman on the side."
My greatest confusion comes when defenders interpret the quran in a harmless fashion but they cannot point to one public figure who follows the quran in like-manner.

Really? And how many of these public figures have been known to beat their wives?
 
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