Disobedience has consequences.

LostMarbels · May 24, 2015

Davian said:
Religious logic in action.

This is why God hates religion and I am not religious.

Davian · May 24, 2015

LostMarbels said:
Nope. None of them for me thanks....

Unlike your opinion of fairy tales, I have a living God I can ask questions to.

Can you ask for a unified theory of gravity? Or are you limited to the type of answers that might only be generated by your imagination?

Davian · May 24, 2015

SkyWriting said:
No, you can measure the level of spirituality in the world by asking people questions.
Like when people vote.....it doesn't determine reality. It just reflects what they think.

What units are you using?

GrimKingGrim · May 24, 2015

Davian said:
Religious logic in action.

It stings the temples doesn't it?

oi_antz · May 24, 2015

hiphopopotomus said:
I think you are being deliberately obtuse.
Read what Jesus said-not some brief summary.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CEgQFjAH&url=http://brucegerencser.net/2015/04/the-bankruptcy-of-the-evangelical-gospel/&ei=0l1iVcawOKXLmAXmkIGoAQ&usg=AFQjCNGJXRV4etH6WDFFunvbL47UXBrGoA&bvm=bv.93990622,d.dGY&cad=rja

This comment wasn't explained in that article, do you know why the author said this:

Yes, Jesus contradicts Paul

I rather see that St Paul reflects on Jesus's life from a perspective of learning about Him from others and from Him in spirit, but I do not know how he says anything that contradicts Jesus. What I do see a lot is that people do not read St Paul carefully enough, and those people contradict Jesus in taking St Paul's words to mean something that they don't say.

TillICollapse · May 24, 2015

LostMarbels said:
Nope. None of them for me thanks....

Unlike your opinion of fairy tales, I have a living God I can ask questions to.

My opinion of fairy tales ? Where have I mentioned fairy tales ?

You didn't totally address my post.

If we have three different people saying, "God showed me _________" and their assertions were that the Book of Mormon, or Enoch, or using an NIV, or praying to a saint in the Orthodox tradition, etc, were all backed up because God showed them personally through signs/miracles/etc, what then ? They are all using books, claiming they are God's words, and combining them with what they believe to be God confirming things for them. So what then ?

Davian · May 24, 2015

oi_antz said:
I recognise the truth

I do not accept this premise.

oi_antz said:
and I know when what you say does not match it. You said you see no delineation between Genesis and Acts. That does not match the truth. Different authors, written many generations apart, one observably able to have access to the information being stated, the other we have no idea how they got their information. Therefore, you were wrong and what you are seeing is demonstrably not reliable.

I am entertaining the assumption that the story states literal fact, that Adam and Eve were once in a paradise garden, then were banished from it, and then other stuff happened and we arrived at Moses in the Exodus. End of that story. If that is how it happened, then it is possible this information was passed through word-of-mouth or written communications, since there is no time during this process where there is not a person alive to carry the information. But, as I have no evidence of this, I am not able to discount the possibility that it didn't happen this way. As for how most of mainstream science is wrong, you will need to explain why you think mainstream science contradicts this version of events, and in a way that does not put the fault at an assumption of a starting point of zero (you already excluded that possibility earlier).

No, actually, I do not need to do anything to counter your admittedly unevidenced assumptions. You have done yourself in.

oi_antz said:
This, your trusting of what you see, is a recurring problem for you, and I don't think it is right to blame others for that.

I can only work with what you have presented here.

oi_antz · May 24, 2015

Davian said:
I do not accept this premise.

How could anyone expect otherwise?

Davian said:
No, actually, I do not need to do anything to counter your admittedly unevidenced assumptions. You have done yourself in.

You should be ashamed of yourself for saying this.

LostMarbels · May 24, 2015

Davian said:
Can you ask for a unified theory of gravity? Or are you limited to the type of answers that might only be generated by your imagination?

I don't know. I've never bothered to ask. Interesting point tho. I would have to assume it possible having no other evidence to the contrary.

LostMarbels · May 24, 2015

TillICollapse said:
My opinion of fairy tales ? Where have I mentioned fairy tales ?

You didn't totally address my post.

If we have three different people saying, "God showed me _________" and their assertions were that the Book of Mormon, or Enoch, or using an NIV, or praying to a saint in the Orthodox tradition, etc, were all backed up because God showed them personally through signs/miracles/etc, what then ? They are all using books, claiming they are God's words, and combining them with what they believe to be God confirming things for them. So what then ?

I cannot use unbibical means to explain biblical truths. I only affirm what I know to be true of the word of God, or refute it based on the word. I do not accept the book of Mormon as true, so I could not verify anything from it.

As I have said before, a book cant tell you anything without the means of interpretation. I rely on my God for answers that I read from a book. Not the book in of it's self. There is a misunderstanding here that I rely on outside means to support my belief. When in actuality I rely on my God to show me what is to be believed. I try diligently to not hold to my own belief system unless it can be confirmed by God.

Also, as previously stated, it is not my responsibility to prove God. That is God's responsibility.

LostMarbels · May 24, 2015

GrimKingGrim said:
It stings the temples doesn't it?

Honestly then, what do you see as logic?
Can you answer the question I asked you before? Please.

How do you expect it to be logical to test something you do not even have a basic understanding of? You have to have some form of understanding of its constructs before you test it, right?

Davian · May 24, 2015

oi_antz said:
How could anyone expect otherwise?

Indeed.

You should be ashamed of yourself for saying this.

..."Foot in mouth sufferer Ask at your own risk"...

You continue to suffer from it...

Davian · May 24, 2015

LostMarbels said:
I don't know. I've never bothered to ask. Interesting point tho. I would have to assume it possible having no other evidence to the contrary.

Well, get on it. While you are at it, let's get a cure for cancer and the common cold. If you come back with nothing, we'll have that evidence.

Davian · May 24, 2015

LostMarbels said:
I cannot use unbibical means to explain biblical truths. I only affirm what I know to be true of the word of God, or refute it based on the word. I do not accept the book of Mormon as true, so I could not verify anything from it.

As I have said before, a book cant tell you anything without the means of interpretation. I rely on my God for answers that I read from a book. Not the book in of it's self. There is a misunderstanding here that I rely on outside means to support my belief. When in actuality I rely on my God to show me what is to be believed. I try diligently to not hold to my own belief system unless it can be confirmed by God.

Also, as previously stated, it is not my responsibility to prove God. That is God's responsibility.

It is beyond God's capability to open an account on an internet discussion board?

Davian · May 24, 2015

LostMarbels said:
Honestly then, what do you see as logic?
Can you answer the question I asked you before? Please.

How do you expect it to be logical to test something you do not even have a basic understanding of? You have to have some form of understanding of its constructs before you test it, right?

I would expect so. How am I to know that you have any such understanding, your claims to date notwithstanding?

oi_antz · May 24, 2015

Davian said:
Indeed.

..."Foot in mouth sufferer Ask at your own risk"...

You continue to suffer from it...

You haven't seen me do that yet. But, you have dodged a lot.

LostMarbels · May 24, 2015

Davian said:
Well, get on it. While you are at it, let's get a cure for cancer and the common cold. If you come back with nothing, we'll have that evidence.

I'm pretty sure we don't have those because of humans wanting to cull the heard.

LostMarbels · May 24, 2015

Davian said:
It is beyond God's capability to open an account on an internet discussion board?

Why? He is already readily available.

LostMarbels · May 24, 2015

Davian said:
I would expect so. How am I to know that you have any such understanding, your claims to date notwithstanding?

You just want me to shut up and go away don't you? And take my God nonsense with me. Not happening.

As I have previously stated, I claim nothing. I only affirm what I know to be true of what God has claimed.

TillICollapse · May 24, 2015

LostMarbels said:
I cannot use unbibical means to explain biblical truths. I only affirm what I know to be true of the word of God, or refute it based on the word. I do not accept the book of Mormon as true, so I could not verify anything from it.

As I have said before, a book cant tell you anything without the means of interpretation. I rely on my God for answers that I read from a book. Not the book in of it's self. There is a misunderstanding here that I rely on outside means to support my belief. When in actuality I rely on my God to show me what is to be believed. I try diligently to not hold to my own belief system unless it can be confirmed by God.

Also, as previously stated, it is not my responsibility to prove God. That is God's responsibility.

To the bold. Why ? Why do you try diligently to not hold to your own belief system unless it can be confirmed by God ?

Disobedience has consequences.

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