The ethics and morality of nudity

You don't see a naked woman as sexual? Ok, but not all the man are like you, send a woman on a saturday night at 2:00am naked on the street after coming out of a pub and you will see if no one looks at her as sexual. I think you should open your eyes to the world we live in.

Wryetui said:

Do you consider, in our society, a T-shirt can be compared to nudity?

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In our society? A tight t-shirt showing clear impressions of female nipples might be regarded in a similar way. But we can say no, as long as we are talking about Western culture.

However, I'm not really sure what your point is. In some societies that t-shirt wearing girl's face is completely naked without a burkha on!

Of course not, the sexual parts are covered, if I were a girl, I wouldn't like to go nude outside so man can lustfuly look at me and have sexual desires on their head

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Yes, if you were a girl with your sex-obsession, but you can't speak for girls. There are female nudists who aren't obsessed about such issues. I know one female nudist personally who does not share your obsession.

The more one is concerned about what others might be thinking or feeling about oneself, the worse the obsession becomes. American society is particularly obsessed about nudity (including female breasts). I find it refreshing to see healthier (i.e. less sex-obsessive) attitudes towards nudity in much of Europe.

don't you know that anyone who looks at a woman with lustful desires has already commited adultery in their hearts?

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I know that to be completely wrong.

Perhaps if one had intended to commit adultery (literally planned to have sex with someone one shouldn't), but that's different than having a completely healthy psychological reaction to looking at a sexy woman. Telling yourself that this is adultery is the worst sort of self-flagellation. It is being one's own abuser. It is evil.

A man seeing a woman naked will be lead to lustful thoughts and that can lead to other sins, so why would we encourage sin?

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Anything can lead to sin. It is your responsibility to see that it doesn't for you. It can be done.

We have to take care of our neighbour, and that means we have to keep them from sinning.

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Your neighbors can look after themselves. They don't need a white knight charging in.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Perhaps you can go to church naked too.

Wryetui said:

Not really. Do you consider, in our society, a T-shirt can be compared to nudity? Of course not, the sexual parts are covered, if I were a girl, I wouldn't like to go nude outside so man can lustfuly look at me and have sexual desires on their head, don't you know that anyone who looks at a woman with lustful desires has already commited adultery in their hearts? A man seeing a woman naked will be lead to lustful thoughts and that can lead to other sins, so why would we encourage sin? We have to take care of our neighbour, and that means we have to keep them from sinning.

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It is not the responsibility of the hypothetical naked woman, who is just going about her day in a naked state because she feels this is the purist form a human being can be in, to keep the man who finds the mere thought of a naked woman enough to think about lustful desires, from sinning. You also assume that nudity would occur in all situations, including interacting with those for whom nudity is viewed as immoral. Rarely would someone who views nudity as a natural way of being go out there and cause an exhibition of themselves in front of those for whom nudity is rather shocking.

Is it our responsibility to help others, and should we know of their struggles with controlling their lust and seeming inability to grow beyond viewing nudity as sexual then yes we'd probably do well to avoid being naked around them. However you are assuming not only that all men will lustfully look at the body of any given naked woman (and while I'm sure you're thinking of very lovely naked women there are some who are not as aesthetically pleasing from a conventional viewpoint who also feel nudity is not an immoral state of being) but apparently that men are incapable of preventing lust filled thoughts from developing into other sins. It can lead to other sins, yes, but the responsibility to prevent that from happening lies with the man (or woman) in question.

If a man (or woman) cannot control their sinful thoughts to the point they must only be surrounded by others who will never force them to confront these, how are they growing in Christ? They are avoiding the issue of their sinful hearts, burying it deep down within themselves rather than acknowledging that they need to work on themselves. Hiding sin and refusing to confront it is not avoiding sin, especially if that sin is forever at risk of raising its head because the mere thought of nudity can send heads into a spin.

There are naked churches. Theoretically people should be so absorbed in worship and reverence for God that the lack of clothing should not be an issue.

Wryetui said:

Perhaps you can go to church naked too.

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There are people who do.

http://ipost.christianpost.com/news...-congregants-naked-as-they-worship-god-11328/

However, being accepting of public nudity does not imply thinking that it must be appropriate in every situation. I would rather dress up in a tuxedo for a four-star restaurant than going au naturel. There are multiple forms of beauty.


eudaimonia,

Mark

How much delusion, don't people see how the devil poisons their mind?

Darkhorse said:

Actually, according to the Bible, original sin was eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
This, of course, was a direct disobedience of God.

God made them good strong leather clothes to replace the shoddy fig-leaf clothes they improvised in their attempt to hide from Him.

He knew they would need tough clothes to deal with abrasion and cold outside of Eden. He never commanded them to wear those clothes, or any clothes; they came up with that idea all by themselves, or maybe with help from the serpent.

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Phew...Just where do you draw the line as to what you will believe? if it's in the bible will you just believe it with no questions asked? I ask because I can not even force my brain to go there no matter how hard I try.

Wryetui said:

How much delusion, don't people see how the devil poisons their mind?

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Religions have all the bases covered because they have been doing it for a long time, if people don't believe then it's the fault of Satan, which means Satan must obviously be stronger than God, either that or God doesn't really care.

Wryetui said:

How much delusion, don't people see how the devil poisons their mind?

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But to flip that a little bit, could it not be said that those who are so against nudity because they can only associate it with sin are poisoned by sinful thoughts? Rot is rot.

Wryetui said:

How much delusion, don't people see how the devil poisons their mind?

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I could ask you that same question, not referring to a literal devil, of course.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Why is it the default in these conversations that it's invariably all about how the woman must be mindful of their sexuality?

Wryetui said:

Perhaps you can go to church naked too.

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And the problem with that would be????

Wryetui said:

How much delusion, don't people see how the devil poisons their mind?

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Most people seem to think that the devil has poisoned the minds of those who has views that differ from their own views.

You can go in front of your Lord and your God, into the sacred Church of God (even if I don't know how much sacred are your churches) naked and stand that way in front of Him, I prefer not to

Wryetui said:

You can go in front of your Lord and your God, into the sacred Church of God (even if I don't know how much sacred are your churches) naked and stand that way in front of Him, I prefer not to

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No one's asking you to. The issue, however, is that you seem to think your personal feelings about being naked should be the default for everyone.

Maybe because I'm the only one here who knows what shame is.

Wryetui said:

Maybe because I'm the only one here who knows what shame is.

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Of course. Everyone else is wrong, and you just happen to have the single, objectively correct opinion.

It is an interesting stance to take, that being blessed not to view nudity in all circumstances as a troubling beacon of sinful thoughts within your own mind, is an indicator of not having shame.