2 Cor 3:6-11 Affirms the Law of God, and the New Covenant where it is written on the heart

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus said that there's no need to go to a specific place to worship. But then Jesus and his followers went to the temple, which wasn't meant for worshiping Jesus, to address how people were worshiping wrongly on the Sabbath. So, if you take that example, you should go to different churches and places where people worship idols to teach them on the Sabbath. Otherwise, you're not referencing the scripture correctly.

Just because some people were defiling the temple doesn’t mean we can’t go to church to worship God like the examples of Jesus and the apostles.

There is no scripture that says Jesus and the apostles only went to the temples to correct people. The scriptures shows they kept every Sabbath teaching and preaching God’s Word to Jews and Gentiles alike Acts 13:42-44 Acts 18:4

There is no scripture that says we are to follow the sinners in scriptures but we are to follow the example of Jesus, who was in the temple reading God’s Word as His custom and kept and taught on the commandments of God and is our example to follow. But if you want to focus on the people who defiled God’s Sabbath and their example thats a choice one can make.

I don’t look for ways on how not to obey, but look for ways on how we should.

Back to my question- please point out the scripture where God says His Sabbath commandment has been abrogated. I am assuming you can’t find It. It’s because it doesn’t exist. All the thus saith the Lords on the Sabbath and there are many for us for to keep and not profane. we are told to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. That’s where my faith is, but we are all given free will.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Just because some people were defiling the temple doesn’t mean we can’t go to church to worship God like the examples of Jesus and the apostles. There is no scripture that says we are to follow the sinners in scriptures but we are to follow the example of Jesus, who was in the temple reading God’s Word as His custom and kept and taught on the Commandments of God and is our example to follow. But if you want to focus on the people who defiled God’s Sabbath and their example thats a choice one can make.

I don’t look for ways on how not to obey, but look for ways on how we should.

Back to my question- please point out the scripture where God says His Sabbath commandment has been abrogated. I am assuming you can’t find It. It’s because it doesn’t exist. All the thus saith the Lords on the Sabbath and there are many for us for to keep and not profane. we are told to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. That’s where my faith is, but we are all given free will.

Please make sure to read my post carefully and understand what I'm saying without changing its meaning. I didn't say we should/shouldn't go to the temple because there were impure people there. What I meant is that you should go to places where people are misguided and help them, just like Jesus did on the Sabbath day by teaching and reading scripture to them. (because you were referencing that example of Jesus)

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Please make sure to read my post carefully and understand what I'm saying without changing its meaning. I didn't say we should/shouldn't go to the temple because there were impure people there. What I meant is that you should go to places where people are misguided and help them, just like Jesus did on the Sabbath day by teaching and reading scripture to them. (because you were referencing that example of Jesus)

Helping people who are spiritually hungry is all part of Sabbath-keeping and an example of how to keep the Sabbath which as I stated previously, the scriptures are filled with.

I don‘t know how one can make the case reading God’s Word, preaching God’s Word, sharing God's Word, prayer is not part of worship to God.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Helping people who are spiritually hungry is all part of Sabbath-keeping and an example of how to keep the Sabbath which as I stated previously, the scriptures are filled with.

I agree to assist spiritually hungry people, but that should happen any day, not just on the seventh day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I agree to assist spiritually hungry people, but that should happen any day, not just on the seventh day.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean we can profane the Sabbath commandment.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Sure, but that doesn’t mean we can profane the Sabbath commandment.

So, what does it mean to keep the Sabbath holy in the commandment? Is it about helping spiritually hungry people? Is it about going to church (even though Jesus said we can worship anywhere)? Or is it about praying and reading the Bible, which we should do every day since we're supposed to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength (Mark 12:30-31)? Or is it not to work on the seventh day as mentioned in Exodus 20:8-11? I'm fine if you say it's about not working on the seventh day to keep it holy, and then the rest of the tasks can be done every day, overlapping with the seventh day. But I'm not okay if you say I must work for six days, especially if I don't need to when I'm financially free.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So, what does it mean to keep the Sabbath holy in the commandment? Is it about helping spiritually hungry people? Is it about going to church (even though Jesus said we can worship anywhere)? Or is it about praying and reading the Bible, which we should do every day since we're supposed to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength (Mark 12:30-31)? Or is it not to work on the seventh day as mentioned in Exodus 20:8-11? I'm fine if you say it's about not working on the seventh day to keep it holy, and then the rest of the tasks can be done every day, overlapping with the seventh day.

Why does it have to be only one option, the scriptures are filled with ways how to keep the Sabbath day holy all works in harmony.

We are not to do any secular work on the Sabbath- it is the day to honor God-Isa 58:13 following examples of scripture like reading God’s Word, prayer, reasoning with the scriptures, preaching God’s Word, helping the spiritual needy are all good examples of keeping the Sabbath day holy. God gave us 6 days to do work and labors Exo 20:9 and only asked for one day to be 100% dedicated to Him and in doing so the Spirit will lead us on how to keep the Sabbath and the main point of the Sabbath is spending quality time with God and is a memorial to His Creation and everything God made for us without us,

 

[Cornelius8L]

Why does it have to be only one option, the scriptures are filled with ways how to keep the Sabbath day holy all works in harmony.

We are not to do any secular work on the Sabbath- it is the day to honor God-Isa 58:13 following examples of scripture like reading God’s Word, prayer, reasoning with the scriptures, preaching God’s Word, helping the spiritual needy are all good examples of keeping the Sabbath day holy. God gave us 6 days to do work and labors Exo 20:9 and only asked for one day to be 100% dedicated to Him and in doing so the Spirit will lead us on how to keep the Sabbath and the main point of the Sabbath is spending quality time with God and is a memorial to His Creation and everything God made for us without us,

Because we're discussing what was considered breaking the Sabbath (since we've been accused of doing so).

#1. Is practicing Isaiah 58:13 every day considered breaking the Sabbath?

Throughout our discussions, you've referenced various verses to support your observance of the Sabbath. However, we've consistently shared our perspectives on why we believe there are flaws in your interpretation. For instance, your use of Balaam's quote, the changes in covenant details, and a misunderstanding regarding Jesus citing the ox to highlight hypocrisy. (posts#31, #39)

Consider when Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman in John 4:21-24, indicating worship not tied to a specific location. Wouldn't it follow that Jesus and his apostles conveyed same teachings inside the temple during his visits on the seventh day, as was customary?

#2. So, does not attending church on the seventh day constitute breaking the Sabbath?

If you lack certainty in your judgment, then it's inappropriate to accuse others, even if they attend church on Sunday, as long as they continue to worship God in their hearts on the seventh day, wherever they may be. Otherwise, your church merely serves to unjustly condemn others without valid grounds.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Because we're discussing what was considered breaking the Sabbath (since we've been accused of doing so).

#1. Is practicing Isaiah 58:13 every day considered breaking the Sabbath?

Throughout our discussions, you've referenced various verses to support your observance of the Sabbath. However, we've consistently shared our perspectives on why we believe there are flaws in your interpretation. For instance, your use of Balaam's quote, the changes in covenant details, and a misunderstanding regarding Jesus citing the ox to highlight hypocrisy. (posts#31, #39)

Consider when Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman in John 4:21-24, indicating worship not tied to a specific location. Wouldn't it follow that Jesus and his apostles conveyed same teachings inside the temple during his visits on the seventh day, as was customary?

#2. So, does not attending church on the seventh day constitute breaking the Sabbath?

If you lack certainty in your judgment, then it's inappropriate to accuse others, even if they attend church on Sunday, as long as they continue to worship God in their hearts on the seventh day, wherever they may be. Otherwise, your church merely serves to unjustly condemn others without valid grounds.

I have never accused you of anything. All I have done is discussed scriptures. It's way above my pay grade to know what others do or don't do, all we can do is share scripture, if one is convicted from the scriptures, that's not us doing.

I already went over John 4:21-24 it does not say Sabbath in Jerusalem is required.

#1 would be very difficult to keep the Sabbath daily as we all have some sort of work to do whether it be working a job, housework, gardening, grocery, gym, shopping etc. God gives us 6 days to get these things done and only asks for one full day dedicated to Him, the seventh day Sabbath. Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13

#2 There is no command that one must go to church on the Sabbath, but there is to follow Jesus as our example 1 John 2:6 As Jesus custom was, He was at the synagogues sharing God's Word Luke 4:16-30- so while there may have been times Jesus wasn't in the church although He still kept every Sabbath, it was his custom to go, which means the majority of the time. Jesus wants us in fellowship with each other and one body, so church is important, but if one is sick or something like that, its not a sin not to go but it is if one is not keeping the Sabbath day holy and as stated many times the scriptures give us plenty of examples.

I asked for one question- you have not answered and now we seem to be going in circles so I will leave it as agree to disagree but wish you well in seeking Truth to His Word.

 

[Bob S]

I have never accused you of anything. All I have done is discussed scriptures. It's way above my pay grade to know what others do or don't do, all we can do is share scripture, if one is convicted from the scriptures, that's not us doing.

I already went over John 4:21-24 it does not say Sabbath in Jerusalem is required.

#1 would be very difficult to keep the Sabbath daily as we all have some sort of work to do whether it be working a job, housework, gardening, grocery, gym, shopping etc. God gives us 6 days to get these things done and only asks for one full day dedicated to Him, the seventh day Sabbath. Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13

#2 There is no command that one must go to church on the Sabbath, but there is to follow Jesus as our example 1 John 2:6 As Jesus custom was, He was at the synagogues sharing God's Word Luke 4:16-30-

So, SB you tell us we should follow Jesus' example and He went to the Temple on the Sabbath. Well, He kept all the Holy days that Torah demanded. I am sure He must have worn sideburns as required by law. SDAs don't do any of the requirements like Jesus did except for the Sabbath and food laws. He ate with Gentiles, so we don't know if He practiced Kosher. If you eat meat do you practice kosher?

so while there may have been times Jesus wasn't in the church although He still kept every Sabbath, it was his custom to go, which means the majority of the time. Jesus wants us in fellowship with each other and one body, so church is important, but if one is sick or something like that, its not a sin not to go but it is if one is not keeping the Sabbath day holy and as stated many times the scriptures give us plenty of examples.

When you fellowship with friends on Sabbath do you ever talk about worldly things or about others? I bet any amount that there is not one SDA that really observes the Sabbath according to Is 58:13. I never met one and I surely didn't when I was a SDA.

 

[Cornelius8L]

I have never accused you of anything. All I have done is discussed scriptures. It's way above my pay grade to know what others do or don't do, all we can do is share scripture, if one is convicted from the scriptures, that's not us doing.

I already went over John 4:21-24 it does not say Sabbath in Jerusalem is required.

#1 would be very difficult to keep the Sabbath daily as we all have some sort of work to do whether it be working a job, housework, gardening, grocery, gym, shopping etc. God gives us 6 days to get these things done and only asks for one full day dedicated to Him, the seventh day Sabbath. Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13

#2 There is no command that one must go to church on the Sabbath, but there is to follow Jesus as our example 1 John 2:6 As Jesus custom was, He was at the synagogues sharing God's Word Luke 4:16-30- so while there may have been times Jesus wasn't in the church although He still kept every Sabbath, it was his custom to go, which means the majority of the time. Jesus wants us in fellowship with each other and one body, so church is important, but if one is sick or something like that, its not a sin not to go but it is if one is not keeping the Sabbath day holy and as stated many times the scriptures give us plenty of examples.

Okay, so right now, nobody's breaking the Sabbath. Anyway, dedicating ourself to God is do what God wants us to do, like you once mentioned before about keeping ourselves clean. When we do that, it's like following God's way instead of our own. For example, when we're working with colleagues, we should talk the way God wants us to, not just how we feel like. Similarly, even in our daily activities like shopping or going to the gym, we can behave in a manner consistent with Christian values, considering others around us. As we walk, we should keep God in our thoughts, demonstrating our love for Him with all our strength, heart, and soul. This is akin to spending the entire day with God, prioritizing Him in all aspects of our lives.

And Jesus preached every day, so that's not the example for keeping the Sabbath holy. Our unity as One Body isn't just about where we are physically, but about our mind and spirit. We also help sick and elderly people outside of church, which is another way of turning towards God and being One Body.

I want to make it clear that I'm not saying going to church is a bad thing. What I'm saying is that either way is okay, as long as everyone does their part to seek God in their heart and soul.

I asked for one question- you have not answered

I'm not sure which question I overlooked, but it seems you're ignoring some of mine. For instance, should we honor parents who are evil, who God hate?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Okay, so right now, nobody's breaking the Sabbath. Anyway, dedicating ourself to God is do what God wants us to do, like you once mentioned before about keeping ourselves clean. When we do that, it's like following God's way instead of our own. For example, when we're working with colleagues, we should talk the way God wants us to, not just how we feel like. Similarly, even in our daily activities like shopping or going to the gym, we can behave in a manner consistent with Christian values, considering others around us. As we walk, we should keep God in our thoughts, demonstrating our love for Him with all our strength, heart, and soul. This is akin to spending the entire day with God, prioritizing Him in all aspects of our lives.

And Jesus preached every day, so that's not the example for keeping the Sabbath holy. Our unity as One Body isn't just about where we are physically, but about our mind and spirit. We also help sick and elderly people outside of church, which is another way of turning towards God and being One Body.

Agree, but if we are in one mind and one body we would be keeping the Sabbath along with all of God’s commandments. Those who are hostile to any part of His law their mind is not with Christ Rom 8:7-8 nor do they have Christ’s imputed righteousness because Christ kept all of the commandments John 15:10 and all His commandments are righteousness Psa 119:172 Jesus is the only who has any righteous and if He resides in us, we would be doing everything He asks. John 14:15-18

God worked six days and rested on the seventh day, not because God needed rest because He left the example for man as man is made in His image to follow Him, not do our own thing. The work Jesus did was not secular- Jesus knows we need to do secular work in order to survive which is why we are given 6 days to get all works and labors done, He only asks for one full day dedicated to Him, the seventh day Sabbath. Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13. Should we spread the gospel as much as we can, absolutely what we are called to do, but it doesn’t take away our moral obligation to obey God’s commandments, including the Sabbath meant to bless and sanctify Isa 56:1-7 Eze 20:12

I'm not sure which question I overlooked, but it seems you're ignoring some of mine. For instance, should we honor parents who are evil, who God hate?

We need to honor our ultimate Father which is the greatest commandment to love God with all our heart. Can we honor our earthy mother and father even if they are evil- yes. There’s lot of things we can do to honor them without following their evil ways - sharing God’s Word, being a good example of Christ living in us, getting out of their way sometime if needed might be the best way to honor them. Many misunderstand how deep and wide the commandments go- Jesus gave an example of this as a principle quoting from the Ten - knowing if kept the way we should the literal commandment would always be kept as He taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these as one would be in fear of sin and judgement. Mat 5:19-30

 

[Leaf473]

Okay, so right now, nobody's breaking the Sabbath. Anyway, dedicating ourself to God is do what God wants us to do, like you once mentioned before about keeping ourselves clean. When we do that, it's like following God's way instead of our own. For example, when we're working with colleagues, we should talk the way God wants us to, not just how we feel like. Similarly, even in our daily activities like shopping or going to the gym, we can behave in a manner consistent with Christian values, considering others around us. As we walk, we should keep God in our thoughts, demonstrating our love for Him with all our strength, heart, and soul.

This is akin to spending the entire day with God, prioritizing Him in all aspects of our lives.

We read that Paul was reasoning in the marketplace every day in Athens.

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 17:17 - English Standard Version

So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there.

www.biblegateway.com

And Jesus preached every day, so that's not the example for keeping the Sabbath holy. Our unity as One Body isn't just about where we are physically, but about our mind and spirit. We also help sick and elderly people outside of church, which is another way of turning towards God and being One Body.

I want to make it clear that I'm not saying going to church is a bad thing. What I'm saying is that either way is okay, as long as everyone does their part to seek God in their heart and soul.

I'm not sure which question I overlooked, but it seems you're ignoring some of mine. For instance, should we honor parents who are evil, who God hate?

 

[Leaf473]

Amen to keeping all of God’s commandments!

At the same time,

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 27:34 - New King James Version

These are the commandments which the Lord commanded Moses for the children of Israel on Mount Sinai.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jumping in just to note that the very few persons I have met ever who are in one mind and one body as Scripture shows abiding as one in Christ
might or might not "keep the Sabbath" in any way observed, per se, by groups that either do or claim to "keep the Sabbath" as Scripture Says To, or in agreement with all Scripture.

Not one of any threads or posts anywhere seem to make a difference at all for any reader(s), except those who visit a few minutes, see the arguing going on , and leave without posting anything and do not come back.

That argument would go against the very teachings of Jesus we are not to break or teach others to break the least of the commandments as one would be of fear of sin and judgement Mat 5:19-30 as breaking one is like breaking them all. James 2:10-12 Just because we don’t “see“ people keeping the 4th commandment doesn’t mean God doesn’t have a people who does. We are not God only He is all knowing and knows what people do or don’t do. There is nothing we can hide from Him Ecc 12:13-14. God says His saints - His people- keep His commandments Rev 14:12 Rev 12:17 Rev 22:14 so God does have a body of people of one mind, that is not hostile to God or His law Rom 8:7-8 that keeps His commandments through love and faith.

Would you apply your argument to the other 9 commandments- we can be in the body and mind of Christ but break only worshipping God , stealing or murder. God wrote Ten Commandments- all of them are His holy and righteous law that is everlasting. Psa 119:172 Psa 119:142 because God’s Truth changes not Psa 119:151.

 

[HIM]

Jumping in just to note that the very few persons I have met ever who are in one mind and one body as Scripture shows abiding as one in Christ
might or might not "keep the Sabbath" in any way observed, per se, by groups that either do or claim to "keep the Sabbath" as Scripture Says To, or in agreement with all Scripture.

Not one of any threads or posts anywhere seem to make a difference at all for any reader(s), except those who visit a few minutes, see the arguing going on , and leave without posting anything and do not come back.

Then why did you comment? As to say it doesn’t matter so why bother?
Standing for truth in all areas of life is what means to be one of faith. Those who are can’t help it. And you say don’t?
Why because you don’t?

 

[BobRyan]

Some will say = all of the OP is incredibly obvious.

As noted in the follow cases of affirmation of all TEN of the TEN commandments being included in the moral law of God written on the heart.

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

Those groups may choose to "edit" one of the commandments via some tradition of man - but still they are mindful enough to know that all TEN are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

The ten cannot be "the moral law"

You have free will - you can suggest anything you like.

I for one am glad that the Bible, and those groups above (and more) and the Bible Sabbath keeping groups all agree on this one detail.

because they do not say anything about loving one another.

Jesus said in Matt 22 "all the Law and the prophets " are based on Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" and Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself".

Your argument is with Him.

2Cor3:6-11 even calls the ten the ministry of death, why,

because for the lost person "do not take God's name in vain" points to an area of sin in their life (as Rom 3:19-20 points out ) and thus their need of the Gospel.

As we all know by now - and as I think you would agree.

 

[BobRyan]

Testament is not equivalent to covenant, even if they came from the same Greek word.

I agree.

 

[BobRyan]

Then, OP should not neglect its following verses 13-14 when quoting v6-11,

2 Corinthians 3:13-14​

We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were closed. For to this day the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant. It has not been lifted, because only in Christ can it be removed.​

Moses stands with Christ in glory -- even before the cross - as Matt 17 reminds us.

One Gospel is in both "OT and NT" Gal 3:8

 

[Bob S]

You have free will - you can suggest anything you like.

I for one am glad that the Bible, and those groups above (and more) and the Bible Sabbath keeping groups all agree on this one detail.

Jesus said in Matt 22 "all the Law and the prophets " are based on Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" and Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself".

Your argument is with Him.

because for the lost person "do not take God's name in vain" points to an area of sin in their life (as Rom 3:19-20 points out ) and thus their need of the Gospel.

As we all know by now - and as I think you would agree.

That does not alter the fact that the ten do not tell anyone to love. If we LOVE God we would never take His name in vain now would we? The fact is the first tree commands of the ten do not ask the Israelites to love nor do the last six and the fourth one is not dealing with others it is dealing with commanded rest.