Prosecutor suspended by DeSantis testifies as lawsuit begins: ‘It is important for me to speak out’

[Yttrium]

I think that if a prosecutor announces in advance that he's not going to do his job in certain cases, the governor has every right to suspend him. It's not a freedom of speech issue, it's a job performance issue. I respect the prosecutor's principles, but it's his duty to follow the law.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I think that if a prosecutor announces in advance that he's not going to do his job in certain cases, the governor has every right to suspend him. It's not a freedom of speech issue, it's a job performance issue. I respect the prosecutor's principles, but it's his duty to follow the law.

Correct, and if a person with a law degree is a "principle over policy" type of person, they'd be better suited to be a defense attorney and not a prosecutor. And I don't mean that in a snarky way, I'm serious... If a person with Warren's principles is in a state that's just threatened to criminalize certain abortions, he could make a fine living at the other courtroom table helping people who are getting prosecuted for it if he feels that strongly about it.

Look at Johnny Cochran, he was a DA...when he decided that the laws didn't line up with his own perceived vision of what justice should look like, he changed teams and went into private practice as a defense attorney and was quite successful at it.

 

[HARK!]

Well, I mean the PHRASE is, but it isn't in the news article.

News flash: Abortion kills babies.

 

[rambot]

News flash: Abortion kills babies.

No it doesn't.

If you kill a child, are you killing an adult?

 

[HARK!]

No it doesn't.

Food Safety Booklet for Pregnant Women, Their Unborn Babies, and ...​

www.fda.gov/food/people-risk-foodborne-illness/food-safety-booklet-pregnant-women-their-unborn-babies-and-children-under-five 2022-05-03T00:00:00.0000000
Unborn babies are just beginning to develop immune systems and have little power to resist foodborne disease. Because of the immune system changes in women during pregnancy and the developing...

Radiation and Pregnancy: A Fact Sheet for the Public - CDC​

www.emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/pdf/prenatal.pdf
For example, if the radiation dose to the unborn baby was roughly equivalent to 500 chest x-rays at one time, the increase in lifetime cancer risk would be less than 2% (above the normal lifetime ... or call CDC at 800-CDC-INFO (English and Spanish) or 888-232-6348 (TTY). Title: Possible Health Effects of Radiation Exposure on Unborn Babies

 

[rambot]

Food Safety Booklet for Pregnant Women, Their Unborn Babies, and ...​

www.fda.gov/food/people-risk-foodborne-illness/food-safety-booklet-pregnant-women-their-unborn-babies-and-children-under-five 2022-05-03T00:00:00.0000000
Unborn babies are just beginning to develop immune systems and have little power to resist foodborne disease. Because of the immune system changes in women during pregnancy and the developing...

Radiation and Pregnancy: A Fact Sheet for the Public - CDC​

www.emergency.cdc.gov/radiation/pdf/prenatal.pdf
For example, if the radiation dose to the unborn baby was roughly equivalent to 500 chest x-rays at one time, the increase in lifetime cancer risk would be less than 2% (above the normal lifetime ... or call CDC at 800-CDC-INFO (English and Spanish) or 888-232-6348 (TTY). Title: Possible Health Effects of Radiation Exposure on Unborn Babies

OH!! UNBORN babies.
Ok.

 

[HARK!]

OH!! UNBORN babies.
Ok.

Unborn babies are babies. Abortions kill babies. It's just that simple.

 

[Yttrium]

Unborn babies are babies.

However, the law treats unborn babies differently from born babies. That's true in federal law and in every state.

So it's important to make the distinction.

 

[Pommer]

I think that if a prosecutor announces in advance that he's not going to do his job in certain cases, the governor has every right to suspend him. It's not a freedom of speech issue, it's a job performance issue. I respect the prosecutor's principles, but it's his duty to follow the law.

I would argue that DeSantis jumped the gun…he should have waited for a case that the prosecutor failed to prosecute, then pounce.

 

[HARK!]

However, the law treats unborn babies differently from born babies.

3/5?

 

[HARK!]

That's true in federal law and in every state.

How about for double homicides which include an unborn child?

 

[Yttrium]

How about for double homicides which include an unborn child?

Those are called out as specific exceptions in some states. If born and unborn babies weren't treated differently, those exceptions wouldn't be there.

 

[Yttrium]

I would argue that DeSantis jumped the gun…he should have waited for a case that the prosecutor failed to prosecute, then pounce.

True. DeSantis jumped the gun, weakening his position. Still, I think he had (barely) enough of an excuse to suspend Warren.

 

[HARK!]

Those are called out as specific exceptions in some states. If born and unborn babies weren't treated differently, those exceptions wouldn't be there.

You're looking at it all wrong. The exceptions for killing babies come out of the convenience for mothers who don't want to take responsibility for caring for their children.

If the father killed the child; he would go to prison.

 

[Yttrium]

You're looking at it all wrong. The exceptions for killing babies come out of the convenience for mothers who don't want to take responsibility for caring for their children.

If the father killed the child; he would go to prison.

...

What?

You're trying so hard to use loaded language that it's coming out as gibberish.

 

[HARK!]

What?

You're trying so hard to use loaded language that it's coming out as gibberish.

It's plain English that most can comprehend.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Today in Florida News:

DeSantis violated state law and the Florida Constitution, but Warren can’t be reinstated, judge rules​

TAMPA, Fla. (WFLA) — A federal judge announced a long-awaited decision on whether Hillsborough State Attorney Andrew Warren should be restored to office, ruling Friday that the ousted prosecutor cannot be reinstated, even though Gov. Ron DeSantis violated state law when he suspended him last year.

“It is not surprising that in this litigation, the Governor has not acknowledged that [politics] was a factor in the suspension. But it plainly was,” the judge wrote.

“The suspension also violated the Florida Constitution, and that violation did affect the outcome,” Hinkle wrote. “But the Eleventh Amendment prohibits a federal court from awarding declaratory or injunctive relief of the kind at issue against a state official based only on a violation of state law.”

States Rights!

"Today’s decision has laid the groundwork for a state court to reinstate Warren and conclude that DeSantis abused his power and violated the Constitution.”

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Today in Florida News:

DeSantis violated state law and the Florida Constitution, but Warren can’t be reinstated, judge rules​

TAMPA, Fla. (WFLA) — A federal judge announced a long-awaited decision on whether Hillsborough State Attorney Andrew Warren should be restored to office, ruling Friday that the ousted prosecutor cannot be reinstated, even though Gov. Ron DeSantis violated state law when he suspended him last year.

“It is not surprising that in this litigation, the Governor has not acknowledged that [politics] was a factor in the suspension. But it plainly was,” the judge wrote.

“The suspension also violated the Florida Constitution, and that violation did affect the outcome,” Hinkle wrote. “But the Eleventh Amendment prohibits a federal court from awarding declaratory or injunctive relief of the kind at issue against a state official based only on a violation of state law.”

States Rights!

"Today’s decision has laid the groundwork for a state court to reinstate Warren and conclude that DeSantis abused his power and violated the Constitution.”

I wonder if Hinkle opted to dismiss the case anyway (but throw in a little jab at DeSantis) because he knows that there's a good chance the 11th circuit court of appeals may have overturned a ruling had he opted to try to rule to reinstate Warren.
(it wouldn't be the first time Hinkle had a ruling overturned by the 11th circuit court of appeals)

Hinkle choice words do seem a bit odd.

Judge dismisses Andrew Warren’s case, but says Gov. DeSantis violated prosecutors’ rights

Robert Hinkle ruled the 11th Amendment prevents him from reversing the suspension.

floridapolitics.com

From the bench he said:
“Florida Governor Ron DeSantis suspended elected State Attorney Andrew Warren, ostensibly on the ground that Mr. Warren had blanket policies not to prosecute certain kinds of cases. The allegation was false,” the ruling opens.

“Mr. Warren’s well established policy, followed in every case by every prosecutor in the office, was to exercise prosecutorial discretion at every stage of every case. Any reasonable investigation would have confirmed this.”


However, a quick look at what Warren's actions actually were:

Hillsborough State Attorney pledges not to press charges against abortion patients, doctors

The State Attorney in Hillsborough County, Andrew Warren, has pledged not to press charges against those receiving an abortion or their doctors. This comes in the wake of Roe v. Wade being overturned by the Supreme Court, handing the power down to the states on how to handle abortion laws.

www.fox13news.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/08/17/andrew-warren-desantis-lawsuit/

"pledging he would not prosecute cases stemming from Florida’s 15-week abortion ban and potential bans on gender-affirming care."


While the judge states "it's not a blanket policy to not prosecute certain kinds of cases, it was just about exercising prosecutorial discretion at every stage at every case", the facts seem to not necessarily line up with that. And given Hinkle's list of rulings on various things (both in his current position, and in past years), I don't think he's necessarily "unbiased", and tends to dip his toes into the waters of "judicial activism" much like Clearance Thomas does for the other side.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Unborn babies are babies. Abortions kill babies. It's just that simple.

No, it doesn't. Abortions in Texas. Aren't old enough to be a baby.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I wonder if Hinkle opted to dismiss the case anyway (but throw in a little jab at DeSantis) because he knows that there's a good chance the 11th circuit court of appeals may have overturned a ruling had he opted to try to rule to reinstate Warren.
(it wouldn't be the first time Hinkle had a ruling overturned by the 11th circuit court of appeals)

Hinkle choice words do seem a bit odd.

Judge dismisses Andrew Warren’s case, but says Gov. DeSantis violated prosecutors’ rights

Robert Hinkle ruled the 11th Amendment prevents him from reversing the suspension.

floridapolitics.com

From the bench he said:
“Florida Governor Ron DeSantis suspended elected State Attorney Andrew Warren, ostensibly on the ground that Mr. Warren had blanket policies not to prosecute certain kinds of cases. The allegation was false,” the ruling opens.

“Mr. Warren’s well established policy, followed in every case by every prosecutor in the office, was to exercise prosecutorial discretion at every stage of every case. Any reasonable investigation would have confirmed this.”


However, a quick look at what Warren's actions actually were:

Hillsborough State Attorney pledges not to press charges against abortion patients, doctors

The State Attorney in Hillsborough County, Andrew Warren, has pledged not to press charges against those receiving an abortion or their doctors. This comes in the wake of Roe v. Wade being overturned by the Supreme Court, handing the power down to the states on how to handle abortion laws.

www.fox13news.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/08/17/andrew-warren-desantis-lawsuit/

"pledging he would not prosecute cases stemming from Florida’s 15-week abortion ban and potential bans on gender-affirming care."


While the judge states "it's not a blanket policy to not prosecute certain kinds of cases, it was just about exercising prosecutorial discretion at every stage at every case", the facts seem to not necessarily line up with that. And given Hinkle's list of rulings on various things (both in his current position, and in past years), I don't think he's necessarily "unbiased", and tends to dip his toes into the waters of "judicial activism" much like Clearance Thomas does for the other side.

What Warren did was sign an open letter pledging not to prosecute certain crimes. That doesn't constitute a blanket policy, as it is not an official directive to his office. And because no such cases had crossed his desk, he had no opportunities to demonstrate a policy via his actions. IMO, DeSantis would only have had grounds to fire him - as an elected official - had he actually demonstrated the alleged blanket policy, or at least officially communicated it to the office.