Freedom from religion.

[bugkiller]

I always find this sense of needing to be free of higher authority as leaning too much on your own understanding. There are people wiser and smarter than either of us who argue all kinds of things. Many argued for a church authority to unify. How can you say they were not led while you are? Is that not pride? I am not saying whether you are right or wrong, just that the automatic trusting of your own beliefs as right is a type of pride.

Submission is the first step of humility. Consider that brother <3

Consider it pride, if you want to. It would not matter if I provided Scripture or not.

bugkiller

 

[Episaw]

Im happy to be free from religion. The contentions of it are overwhelming.

I have a feeling that you are saying this with a bit of a tongue in cheek. I have done a two-year study of the church and religion, by and large, has proved to be a complete disaster. Too much has been a battleground for control and power.

It has been good to realize that there has always been a remnant that has stayed true to Jesus understanding of the church as he intended it to be and that will be the case until the day he comes again, but for the majority of religious people, they will not be taken up at the second coming of Christ. They will have to suffer the error of their ways and go through the tribulation and hope they see the light.

I am not convinced that if you do this or do that you are a religion because after all, the definition is a concoction of man, probably to give them more power and control. If God is involved, then it is not valid unless it is a relationship first and foremost. That is the whole point of the cross. To bring us back into a relationship with God via Jesus death on Calvary.

If you haven't got that and religious people do not have it, then all you are doing is perpetuating a system of ideas which basically is no different to belonging to the gardening club or the camera club. In those, you may have a relationship with other members of the club but nothing else.

And to make it quite clear, going to a certain place every Sunday morning and singing a few songs and listening to someone give a little homily will not in most cases, bring about a love relationship with the Creator and his son Jesus.

The first and most important step is to be born again to become a member of God's family, just the same as you have to be born to become a member of your earthly family. Then and only then can you hope to have a relationship with the heavenly father. Everything else is a waste of time.

I have met too many religious people who believe that being religious is all you need.

 

[R. Hartono]

Yes.

Arent we His family

 

[bugkiller]

I'm not afraid to say that I'm part of a religion. No one should be. It's a ridiculous argument to be having. We're religious people, so we follow a religion. It's all fairly simple.

In what sense?

bugkiller

 

[thecolorsblend]

Agreed. Is it just me or does this seem to be more common nowadays? I have even heard it sometimes, I'm a bit shocked to say, from people within your own communion, including even priests. I don't understand it. It seems like one of those 'cool', post-modern ways of looking at the faith: "Oh, true Christianity isn't a religion!"

Well if it isn't, I would like to know why it then has all the trappings of one. It's silly to me to protest that it's not one, if what you really mean by saying that (and this is the most generous interpretation I can give it) is that you don't approach your faith in a dry, legalistic manner or what have you. Yes, fine. But it's still a religion.

It's as if somewhere along the line a certain kind of person decided 'religion' is one of those dirty words we aren't supposed to use in polite, modern society, since so many people associate it with something negative, or prefer to call themselves "spiritual, but not religious" or whatever. That's fine for them if that's how they want to speak, but I don't recall being invited to that meeting. I love my religion, and don't see any reason why I should conform to this new (really, by now quite old) way of talking about it.

It is kind of a Christianity For Hipsters thing to say. Like, remember when the emergents were saying pretentious nonsense like "Oh, this isn't a new denomination, it's a conversation!"

Ugh...

According to your interpretation. According to mine the visible head of the one true Church sits at the right hand of the Father, not a father, THE Father.

Our Lord is the visible head of the Church?

Golly...

 

[TuxAme]

This is always what happens when one criticises the RC or EO, you all complain about being attacked. How much "attacking" does your church members do? Is it only Protestants?

Come again? I mean, for starters, you can barely stand to address what I actually say- you and everyone else responding to me are responding to what you wanted me to post. I say that the Pope is the visible head of one of the world's religions, and you respond instead with, "There is only one head" or "I don't obey him"- which are both totally unrelated to what I said. It's not good etiquette to respond to anything except what your opponent says. And now you're trying to justify your actions by appealing to what others (not even myself) may say or do.

You don't see how this could be problematic?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Arent we His family

Well... define "family".

 

[thecolorsblend]

This is always what happens when one criticises the RC or EO, you all complain about being attacked.

Imagine that.

 

[bugkiller]

I've gotta say, the people who need to "get real" here are the people arguing that they're not part of a religion.

My 2¢.

What religion are you talking about? Is it not organized church or what we call denominations?

bugkiller

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Im happy to be free from religion. The contentions of it are overwhelming.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the word religion, I promise, Christianity is a religion, and in that sense, it is useful to draw distinctions that set it apart from other non-Christian religions. However, the negative sense of the term with Judaeo-Christianity in mind and the New Testament, would be as it pertains to groups like the Pharisees and Sadducees. They had religion, but no Christ, and for all their religious efforts, completely missed the boat so to speak.

 

[W2L]

Hebrews uses THEY in plural talking about the group of believers,

and if John is making the claim that we are being taught all things on our own, then why is he even bothering to write a letter telling us we don't need to be taught?

When John says You, he is writing to an entire Church, not the individual. He is telling the entire Parish he is writing to that they as a body can determine what is profitable and what isn't. And this was necessary at the time because the Apostles could not constantly be in every church around the world.
The problem at that time was people were looking for other teachers, Gurus if you will. John is telling the church that they as a body can determine if a teacher speaks true or not.


I do not think the Holy Spirit leads us individually apart from the Church. Even the apostles realized this when they were arguing over the issue of Circumcision. What did they do? They came together in a council.

No, no, no. Nope. You are only half right. John mentions the anointing. THis comes by hearing the word. We can hear the word by reading scripture, meditating on it, and praying about it. We dont need teachers if we have scripture. Sure its wise to have others to share your opinions with, so they can be tested against the word, and thats what is good about CF. Look at what we are taught. What do you see? Do you see a hard to understand doctrine? Or do you see a simple path to follow? Did God hang some heavy yoke of religion on our necks as He did the Jews? No. Jesus yoke is light.

 

[R. Hartono]

Well... define "family".

Arent we supposed to live with Him when He returns to take us home

 

[TuxAme]

What religion are you talking about? Is it not organized church or what we call denominations?

bugkiller

If you believe in God, the Supreme Ultimate or what have you- you're part of a religion. Non-denominationals are in a religion as much as Baptists, Catholics, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, etc.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

You're missing my point entirely, just like everyone else here. Read what I said again.

I get your point, and it is your interpretation.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Arent we supposed to live with Him when He returns to take us home

I must say that I have no clue where this discussion is going.

So I'll finish this post by typing "big juicy steak".

 

[☦Marius☦]

Where are we commanded to attend church?

bugkiller

"And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works, not staying away from our [worship] meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:19-25"

"And he himself gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 16 From him the whole body grows, fitted and held together through every supporting ligament. As each one does its part, the body builds itself up in love." Ephesians 4:11-16

"So confess your sins to one another and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great effectiveness." James 5:16

"All who believed were together and held everything in common, 46 Every day they continued to gather together by common consent in the temple courts, breaking bread from house to house, sharing their food with glad and humble hearts" Acts 2:44-46

"What should you do then, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each one has a song, has a lesson, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all these things be done for the strengthening of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:26

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.” Matthew 18:20

"Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you." Hebrews 13:17

 

[W2L]

There's nothing inherently wrong with the word religion, I promise, Christianity is a religion, and in that sense, it is useful to draw distinctions that set it apart from other non-Christian religions. However, the negative sense of the term with Judaeo-Christianity in mind and the New Testament, would be groups like the Pharisees and Sadducees. They had religion, but no Christ, and for all their religious efforts, completely missed the boat so to speak.

Many denominations today are also missing the boat. Its seen on these forums when people argue about man made traditions instead of lovingly discussing what God really gave us.

 

[W2L]

I must say that I have no clue where this discussion is going.

So I'll finish this post by typing "big juicy steak".

I have steak.

 

[TuxAme]

I get your point, and it is your interpretation.

It's not my interpretation, it's fact (keep reading long enough for me to explain).

You don't even have to believe that the Catholic Church is correct. You just have to understand that the Pope is the visible head of this Church (with Jesus being the "invisible" head), and that this Church (as the name implies) practices a religion. That's all I'm conveying in that comment.

 

[☦Marius☦]

No, no, no. Nope. You are only half right. John mentions the anointing. THis comes by hearing the word. We can hear the word by reading scripture, meditating on it, and praying about it. We dont need teachers if we have scripture. Sure its wise to have others to share your opinions with, so they can be tested against the word, and thats what is good about CF. Look at what we are taught. What do you see? Do you see a hard to understand doctrine? Or do you see a simple path to follow? Did God hang some heavy yoke of religion on our necks as He did the Jews? No. Jesus yoke is light.

Again:

"Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you." Hebrews 13:17