How to explain 13.8 billion years?

DamianWarS

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myth and allegorical applied to biblical text needs to be done so with wisdom. To blanket the whole bible in allegory is not in good judgment and each book needs to be taken in context. Sometimes even portions of books have different context.

With Genesis these are not written accounts based on eyewitness so they shouldnt be read as such. Its generally assumed Moses wrote the book and he certainly wasn't around during any of the events that take place in Genesis.

When you look further into the context of Genesis there are accounts that apply more broadly to a wider audience and accounts that narrow a lot more to a more specific audience all of which would have been kept through oral tradition. Broader texts can be generalized as Pre-Abraham/Pre-Flood and more narrow texts are after Post Flood/Post Abraham.

If you read Genesis you will find there is a vast more detail written about Abraham and his descendants than there is about before Abraham. This is because this text is for the Hebrews and obviously they would have a specific interest in keeping the detailed accounts about their Patriarch and how Israel became a people group. There is no reason to think why these accounts would be corrupted because no other culture would have interests in robbing these figures. The Hebrews kept the details because it would have been important to them.

As for account before Abraham these details would be only be important to the degree that God is glorified through them as the creator and ruler over all things. From the time these things happened until they were written down the details would have been somewhat fluid influenced by surrounding cultures and those times cultures would have expressed themselves a lot through myth. Moses came into the picture and probably had to redeem the stories floating around to ensure worship of the one true God.

The myth of these accounts are not as important as how the myth is put together and how God is glorified. When a story is 1000 years old what matters is the broad strokes and this is where Moses would have found himself. It was important to cleanse these accounts of paganism (such as rampant egyptian influence) and point to God as the only creator and ruler of all things. But it was probably also important to keep the accounts as they probably had strong connection and identity to those who told it.

So when all things that we know are created in 6 days and then rest on the 7th what is important is why these details were revealed this way and that God did it. What isn't important is the question of how can everything we know be created in 144 hours. So how do we explain the 13.8 billion years? We don't because the these details are not important in the texts we have nor do they answer the question. Let science work out science and let scripture work out scripture.
 
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StevenMerten

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Using Time Dilation, billions of years of star formation can occur in six days. Physical time is a variable and not the constant that scientists, scientists who want to bash creationists, make it out to be. Physical time slows down as velocity increases. As velocity approaches the speed of light, physical time almost stops. This is scientifically proven. Computers on our GPS satellites have to adjust for their higher velocity, thus slower lapsing time (time dilation), otherwise they would put you in the ditch.


Have you noticed that God created light on the first day of creation but only put the sun and stars in the sky on the fourth day of creation? This is because the earth was created first then the ‘big bang’. The ‘big bang’ is everything else coming into existence in a big ball of light, apart from earth. The ‘big bang’ is God saying, ‘Let There Be Light!’ The earth was revolving next to the big bang’s light for four days before God put it into our sun’s orbit. As long as the earth is traveling at the speed of light, or faster, for those four days, and the big bang is traveling at a much slower velocity, then billions of years of star formation can occur in these four days.


The big thing to remember is that the earth, and all that exists in the cosmos, was created in the week Adam was made. Love for God capable man is at the center of God’s creation.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Just not true in the actual Bible, any more than the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, his ascension into heaven, the miracles of the Bible... are all mere myth simply "to be dismissed as things that never happened in real history"..

I assume that is your opinion, I know it is not mine...

1. I try to never post "other people's opinions for them" you have free will - you can reject all the Bible you please.

2. I can however find a great many people who will admit that the Ten Commandments are "legal code" rather than written as "mythology" and you and I both know that they will admit to this obvious detail - for example in "Ex 20: 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." - is not how to say "evolution did it no matter what the Bible says".

3. I can also find a great many Christians willing to admit that Christian faith rests on the trustworthy nation of the Word of God and that these historic events - did happen "even though" they are the work of God: and you and I both know that Christians will affirm - the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, his ascension into heaven, the miracles of the Bible, the creation of life on earth, the world wide flood - as the act of God and not the innate ability of gas, dust and rocks to "perform" for us.
 
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BobRyan

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The thing is we do know when the flood was and the connection to Adam from there.

To invoke old ages somewhere is to assume Adam and Eve lived for billions of years here? Or maybe a devoid planet existed billions of years before Adam was put here? Or..? Why invent stuff?

True - blind faith evolutionism is soooo funny -- but is probably more 'necessary' if one is an atheist to start with.
 
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BobRyan

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Any place in the Bible mentions that the Universe is very big?

It does mention Pleiades and Orion - and claims the number of stars cannot be counted Jeremiah 33:22 . Is that what you mean?
 
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BobRyan

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Both the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution are very well established major theories, with enormous levels of verification and evidence. The ToE is stronger, probably, than the BBT, but it's sort of like saying 'steel is fairly strong but titanium alloy is stronger' - either one will serve for tableware with no danger of failure due to stress. At this point there are no known major issues with either theory. Details to be filled in? Yes. Serious difficulties? No. Guesswork? Certainly not!

no "Totally false" - just "mostly false" and totally misleading -

As it turns out blind faith evolutionism is indeed "highly doubtful" in its wild claim that "An amoeba will sure-enough turn into a rabbit over time - given a talented enough amoeba and a sufficiently long and talented enough period of time for that amoeba to climb up mount improbable - lacing that time with a string of just-so stories about the fossil record that are easy enough to tell, but they are not science".

Not only that - but we have atheist evolutionists - who when confronted with the facts about our own solar system - confess to a recent creation of earth and our solar system.


 
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JacksBratt

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With Genesis these are not written accounts based on eyewitness so they shouldnt be read as such. Its generally assumed Moses wrote the book and he certainly wasn't around during any of the events that take place in Genesis.

This statement is common, yet flawed. We assume that generations passed and the stories were passed down from one generation to the next. Thus, we conclude that they are, like the game of "the broken telephone" distorted and contain errors.

This is a mistake.

Here is why.. Adam was still alive when Methuselah was alive. They lived at the same time for many years. Methuselah was still alive, obviously, and lived along with Noah. Noah and his son, Shem, also obviously lived at the same time.

Finally, Shem was still alive and well for many years when Abraham, Issac and Jacob were alive.

If you take a second and think about that. Just stop and think...

Adam told Methuselah, Methuselah told Noah, Noah told Shem and Shem told Jacob...... It's not hundreds of generations as it is now..

Shem heard it third hand.
 
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expos4ever

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Man can't prove its 13+ billion. They just guess essentially. Which is funny when they say "Well you want me to guess God is real? How stupid!", and yet they guess how old the universe is.
While the multi billion year age cannot be proven, it is certainly not a "guess". The evidence for an "old" universe and earth is very strong.
 
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Steve Petersen

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This statement is common, yet flawed. We assume that generations passed and the stories were passed down from one generation to the next. Thus, we conclude that they are, like the game of "the broken telephone" distorted and contain errors.

This is a mistake.

Here is why.. Adam was still alive when Methuselah was alive. They lived at the same time for many years. Methuselah was still alive, obviously, and lived along with Noah. Noah and his son, Shem, also obviously lived at the same time.

Finally, Shem was still alive and well for many years when Abraham, Issac and Jacob were alive.

If you take a second and think about that. Just stop and think...

Adam told Methuselah, Methuselah told Noah, Noah told Shem and Shem told Jacob...... It's not hundreds of generations as it is now..

Shem heard it third hand.

Baloney. Just because the Bible says it doesn't make it true.

Show me the remains of anyone who lived more than 500 years then we can do a forensic study on their teeth and joints. Teeth wear with age. At 500 years, you wouldn't have any teeth; they would be ground down to stubs. Joints also wear with age and forensics can give us an age estimate there also.

I suppose your next move would be to propose a different environment or some other supernatural explanation as to why such bones have not been found. Or a Flood covered them all up.

It will all be reduced to a Goddidit fallacy.
 
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DamianWarS

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This statement is common, yet flawed. We assume that generations passed and the stories were passed down from one generation to the next. Thus, we conclude that they are, like the game of "the broken telephone" distorted and contain errors.

This is a mistake.

Here is why.. Adam was still alive when Methuselah was alive. They lived at the same time for many years. Methuselah was still alive, obviously, and lived along with Noah. Noah and his son, Shem, also obviously lived at the same time.

Finally, Shem was still alive and well for many years when Abraham, Issac and Jacob were alive.

If you take a second and think about that. Just stop and think...

Adam told Methuselah, Methuselah told Noah, Noah told Shem and Shem told Jacob...... It's not hundreds of generations as it is now..

Shem heard it third hand.

You need to add up all the generations until Moses not Abraham because he's the one who wrote down the accounts.

The text also agrees with this since there is a far greater amount of detail with the stuff the Hebrews should get right and a lot less and far more myth like with the stuff that had less value to them in terms of their own identity and had far greater opportunity to be influenced by other cultures who also remembered what their grandpa's told them. These are cultures where things weren't written down, they were told. Myths often were the product because you can hide the important values in the myth that need to be passed down rather than the literal events that were less important.

Abraham passed on the details of his blood line and even if he met 500 yr old Shem those details from the beginning are at a much lower level. Adam by the way also wasn't around before he was created so if Adam retold events of creation it was only that which God wanted him to know that he retold.
 
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RaymondG

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As an aside, if you are worried about your salvation, do you want to talk about it, and about the ways you can know whether you are saved or not (and how to have assurance if you are)?
Yours in Christ,
David

Hey, I'm curious to know your opinion on how one knows and have assurance that they are saved.

thanks
 
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DamianWarS

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Have you noticed that God created light on the first day of creation but only put the sun and stars in the sky on the fourth day of creation? This is because the earth was created first then the ‘big bang’. The ‘big bang’ is everything else coming into existence in a big ball of light, apart from earth. The ‘big bang’ is God saying, ‘Let There Be Light!’ The earth was revolving next to the big bang’s light for four days before God put it into our sun’s orbit. As long as the earth is traveling at the speed of light, or faster, for those four days, and the big bang is traveling at a much slower velocity, then billions of years of star formation can occur in these four days.

Day 1-3 they are spoken into existence, let there be 1. light, 2. water/sky, 3. land

Day 4-6 they are filled or "fattened" as the Hebrew word means, 4. sun/moon/stars, 5. birds/fish, 6. animals/man.

Compare days 1 with 4, 2 with 5 and 3 with 6. Notice the symmetry in the order? Could this be poetry? Or did birds really have to fly for 24 hours before they could land?
 
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RaymondG

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myth and allegorical applied to biblical text needs to be done so with wisdom. To blanket the whole bible in allegory is not in good judgment and each book needs to be taken in context. Sometimes even portions of books have different context.

With Genesis these are not written accounts based on eyewitness so they shouldnt be read as such. Its generally assumed Moses wrote the book and he certainly wasn't around during any of the events that take place in Genesis.

When you look further into the context of Genesis there are accounts that apply more broadly to a wider audience and accounts that narrow a lot more to a more specific audience all of which would have been kept through oral tradition. Broader texts can be generalized as Pre-Abraham/Pre-Flood and more narrow texts are after Post Flood/Post Abraham.

If you read Genesis you will find there is a vast more detail written about Abraham and his descendants than there is about before Abraham. This is because this text is for the Hebrews and obviously they would have a specific interest in keeping the detailed accounts about their Patriarch and how Israel became a people group. There is no reason to think why these accounts would be corrupted because no other culture would have interests in robbing these figures. The Hebrews kept the details because it would have been important to them.

As for account before Abraham these details would be only be important to the degree that God is glorified through them as the creator and ruler over all things. From the time these things happened until they were written down the details would have been somewhat fluid influenced by surrounding cultures and those times cultures would have expressed themselves a lot through myth. Moses came into the picture and probably had to redeem the stories floating around to ensure worship of the one true God.

The myth of these accounts are not as important as how the myth is put together and how God is glorified. When a story is 1000 years old what matters is the broad strokes and this is where Moses would have found himself. It was important to cleanse these accounts of paganism (such as rampant egyptian influence) and point to God as the only creator and ruler of all things. But it was probably also important to keep the accounts as they probably had strong connection and identity to those who told it.

So when all things that we know are created in 6 days and then rest on the 7th what is important is why these details were revealed this way and that God did it. What isn't important is the question of how can everything we know be created in 144 hours. So how do we explain the 13.8 billion years? We don't because the these details are not important in the texts we have nor do they answer the question. Let science work out science and let scripture work out scripture.

Wow. I spent some time thinking about the numbers in the bible and what they mean..... especially the number 9. But I never saw that 6 days was 144 hours. I believe specific messages are being relayed by some of the numbering...for those who care to look. 1+4+4=9, 144k set apart and sealed in Rev. Jesus said case your net to the right ...they caught 153 fish (like they really counted them) 1+5+3=9. The mark of the beast 6+6+6=18, 6*6*6=216. a cubic being 9 inches etc...

Some interesting stuff in there that are missed when everything is taken literal
 
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RaymondG

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1. I try to never post "other people's opinions for them" you have free will - you can reject all the Bible you please.

2. I can however find a great many people who will admit that the Ten Commandments are "legal code" rather than written as "mythology" and you and I both know that they will admit to this obvious detail - for example in "Ex 20: 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." - is not how to say "evolution did it no matter what the Bible says".

3. I can also find a great many Christians willing to admit that Christian faith rests on the trustworthy nation of the Word of God and that these historic events - did happen "even though" they are the work of God: and you and I both know that Christians will affirm - the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, his ascension into heaven, the miracles of the Bible, the creation of life on earth, the world wide flood - as the act of God and not the innate ability of gas, dust and rocks to "perform" for us.

on the contrary.. I believe that there are hundreds of lesson you miss from the bible when you take everything literally.

It is easy to say "It Happened, I believe it, therefore Im saved"

It is harder to read and understand the word and then apply it to your own life. That takes patience...and in patience you can take Possession of your soul..... or you can hope and believe that your belief in History can get you your soul after you die....
 
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JacksBratt

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You need to add up all the generations until Moses not Abraham because he's the one who wrote down the accounts.

The text also agrees with this since there is a far greater amount of detail with the stuff the Hebrews should get right and a lot less and far more myth like with the stuff that had less value to them in terms of their own identity and had far greater opportunity to be influenced by other cultures who also remembered what their grandpa's told them. These are cultures where things weren't written down, they were told. Myths often were the product because you can hide the important values in the myth that need to be passed down rather than the literal events that were less important.

Abraham passed on the details of his blood line and even if he met 500 yr old Shem those details from the beginning are at a much lower level. Adam by the way also wasn't around before he was created so if Adam retold events of creation it was only that which God wanted him to know that he retold.
My point is still valid. Whether they wrote it down or not, it was not passed down for 20 or 30 generations... it was third hand.

Also, we don't know if it was recorded some how or not. We know some of the stuff that Moses wrote was dictated to him by God. We don't know that he didn't have other scripts to access.
 
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JacksBratt

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This is how you end up with flat-earthers and other such nonsense, by taking everything in the Bible literally.
You take the Bible your way. I'll take it my way... some day we'll see who was right.... deal?
 
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