The finished work of Christ

[overcomer]

Thank you. bump for SDA who are trying to finish the already finished work of Christ. Praise Jesus!!!

No SDA is trying to do the work for Christ.

However we don't subscribe to once-saved-always-saved belief and 'proudly sinning under grace' mental.

 

[bloodygrace]

Good luck, I must have repeated that comment a half dozen times or more today to the OP.

Worse case of skipping pertinent questions I've seen to date, and by far.

Just like you skipped over the last part of the fruits of the Spirit.....against such there is no law!

 

[bloodygrace]

No SDA is trying to do the work for Christ.

However we don't subscribe to once-saved-always-saved belief and 'proudly sinning under grace' mental.

But you very proudly draw Christians away from grace to the bondage of law keeping. That is one of the highest sins you can commit. It's called falling from grace and leaving your first love. Jesus weeps over you.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Just like you skipped over the last part of the fruits of the Spirit.....against such there is no law!

No, I commented on it in some depth. When you quoted that and I asked you what you thought it meant, and of course you didn't answer, I did the best I could to explain what it meant.

I even said I forgot you don't answer questions in the same post.

sheesh.

 

[overcomer]

But you very proudly draw Christians away from grace to the bondage of law keeping. That is one of the highest sins you can commit. It's called falling from grace and leaving your first love. Jesus weeps over you.

This is where we disagree profoundly. We don't believe anyone can enter into heaven while still commits sin willfully. We believe Jesus saved us FROM our sins, not IN our sins.

 

[bloodygrace]

No, I commented on it in some depth. When you quoted that and I asked you what you thought it meant, and of course you didn't answer, I did the best I could to explain what it meant.

I even said I forgot you don't answer questions in the same post.

sheesh.

Your explanation was forcing law into the verse where it didn't belong. That's called obfuscation.

 

[bloodygrace]

This is where we disagree profoundly. We don't believe anyone can enter into heaven while still commits sin willfully. We believe Jesus saved us FROM our sins, not IN our sins.

How do I commit sin? Explain that seeing the new testament definition of sin is unbelief.

 

[Kenny'sID]

But you very proudly draw Christians away from grace to the bondage of law keeping.

Very dangerous stuff you preach there...telling people it is not a good thing to do as God requires of us. One thing that I've noticed most people on this board agree on here is necessity of grace. It's understood and no one is being drawn away from it. But some try to use it as an excuse to do what they want and even to the point where practicing sin will still allow us into heaven.

They do as you are and draw people away from the clear truth.

We are saved by faith in the grace Christ offers and without that no one would be saved, and we prove our faith by doing what god commands we do.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Your explanation was forcing law into the verse where it didn't belong. That's called obfuscation.

You refused to answer my question because you were afraid of my point and you are still hiding from it. At leas I got it out of you I didn't skip by it as you said I did...that's miraculous in itself.

Watch this.

What does the following mean to you?

against such there is no law!

 

[overcomer]

How do I commit sin? Explain that seeing the new testament definition of sin is unbelief.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You think the definition of sin in NT is different?

 

[Soyeong]

You again didn't answer my question: If you grant that one of the purposes of the Mosaic law was to reveal sin, and you agree that you should not do the things that God has revealed to be sin, then why do you speak against practicing obedience to His law?

The Mosaic law is not spiritual. Paul call the Mosaic law the law of sin and death. The spiritual law is written in the heart not tables of stone.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Rom. 8:2

In Romans 7:7-14, Paul referenced "do not covet" which is part of the Mosaic law and there is nothing the those verses that indicates that he switched with law he was talking about in verse 14, so he was saying that the Mosaic law is spiritual, which should make sense because the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to it and all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it.

Romans 7:21-25 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

In verse 22, Paul said that he delighted in God's law, which is consistent with the Psalms that also delighted in God's law (Psalms 1:2, Psalms 37:23, Psalms 40:8, Psalms 112:1, Psalms 119:16, Psalms 119:35, Psalms 119:70, Psalms 119:77, Psalms 119:92, Psalms 119:143, Psalms 119:174). God's law is His instructions for how to do what is right and Paul desired to do what is right, but he contrasted that with a law of sin that was working within him to stir up sin. The law of God is the same thing as the law of the Spirit, which He gave to Moses, and which is being contrasted with the law of sin and death.

 

[Dave-W]

Good luck, I must have repeated that comment a half dozen times or more today to the OP.

Worse case of skipping pertinent questions I've seen to date, and by far.

Indeed.

 

[bloodygrace]

No, I commented on it in some depth. When you quoted that and I asked you what you thought it meant, and of course you didn't answer, I did the best I could to explain what it meant.

I even said I forgot you don't answer questions in the same post.

sheesh.

You're not a happy Christian are you? Just a sour grape with your teeth set on edge.

 

[bloodygrace]

Very dangerous stuff you preach there...telling people it is not a good thing to do as God requires of us. One thing that I've noticed most people on this board agree on here is necessity of grace. It's understood and no one is being drawn away from it. But some try to use it as an excuse to do what they want and even to the point where practicing sin will still allow us into heaven.

They do as you are and draw people away from the clear truth.

We are saved by faith in the grace Christ offers and without that no one would be saved, and we prove our faith by doing what god commands we do.

God does not give us grace and his spirit under the new testament so we go back to the old testament and keep the law. The greatest lie of all the law-keeping groups - Messianics, Hebrew roots and SDA.

 

[bloodygrace]

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You think the definition of sin in NT is different?

Anything which is not of faith is sin Rom. 14:23. A violation of the law of faith. This is why unbelief is said to be the worst sin over and over and over but somehow you missed that.

 

[bloodygrace]

You again didn't answer my question: If you grant that one of the purposes of the Mosaic law was to reveal sin, and you agree that you should not do the things that God has revealed to be sin, then why do you speak against practicing obedience to His law?

The law should reveal that you don't believe in Jesus. Because if you did all your guilt and condemnation would be taken away. You don't keep the law and you never have one day in your whole life.

 

[Dave-W]

A

God does not give us grace and his spirit under the new testament so we go back to the old testament and keep the law.

The law should reveal that you don't believe in Jesus.

Are you trying to say that Paul was not a believer? That He did not believe in Jesus?

He kept the Law (and even the Pharasaic oral tradition**) all his life.


Acts 28.17 After three days Paul called together those who were the leading men of the Jews, and when they came together, he began saying to them, “Brethren, though I had done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers,** yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.

And that Paul took part in animal sacrifice in the temple?

Acts 21.20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.** 22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.” 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day, purifying himself along with them, went into the temple giving notice of the completion of the days of purification, until the sacrifice was offered for each one of them.

Paul wrote in Galatians that anyone who is circumcised becomes obligated to the entire Law. And then in Acts 16 turns around and circumcises Timothy himself. (thus obligating his own pupil to the whole law)

If what you are saying is true, why would he do that?

 

[Dave-W]

God does not give us grace and his spirit under the new testament so we go back to the old testament and keep the law. The greatest lie of all the law-keeping groups - Messianics, Hebrew roots and SDA.

I noticed you have not tried posting your maror (bitterness) over in the Messianic forum. Afraid of something?

 

[Soyeong]

Just like you skipped over the last part of the fruits of the Spirit.....against such there is no law!

There is no law against the fruits of the Spirit because they are all in accordance with what the Mosaic law teaches.

But you very proudly draw Christians away from grace to the bondage of law keeping. That is one of the highest sins you can commit. It's called falling from grace and leaving your first love. Jesus weeps over you.

The Mosaic law was given to reveal what sin is and it is sin that puts us in bondage, so it can't also be obedience to the law that puts us in bondage. God did not save the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt to put them back under bondage to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free (Galatians 5:1) and God's law is a law of liberty (Psalms 119:45, James 1:25), while it is sin in disobedience to the law that puts us in bondage. Jesus was sinless so he set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic law, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that we ought to follow his commands and to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:3-6). In 1 John 2:3-6, it associates following his commands with walking in the same way that he walked, and if you believe that Jesus preached what he practiced and practiced what preached, then you should believe that his commands were the same as the obedience to the law that he lived out. Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his commands (John 14:15), not that we will consider his commands to be bondage. If I had been saying that we need to obey the Mosaic law according to Jewish traditions in order to become saved instead of as a demonstration of our faith and love, as was being said in Galatians, then you would be right that I had fallen from grace, but I have said just the opposite. Jesus taught by example, he had disciples who had the goal of copying his example, and he told his disciples go and make disciples to teach them to follow his example, so it is absurd to say that Jesus weeps over people who are following his example, especially when the Bible instructs us to follow his example.

How do I commit sin? Explain that seeing the new testament definition of sin is unbelief.

Unbelief is also a sin in the OT. In Romans 7:7, Paul said that he wouldn't even know what sin was if it were not for the Mosaic law, so again, how can you say we should not do the things that God has revealed to be sin, yet argue against obeying the Mosaic law, in which God revealed which things are sin?

God does not give us grace and his spirit under the new testament so we go back to the old testament and keep the law. The greatest lie of all the law-keeping groups - Messianics, Hebrew roots and SDA.

According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Messiah was added upon the grace of the law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience of faith. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves God's grace training us to do essentially the same things as the Mosaic law instructs. Strong's defines "grace" as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and God's law is His instructions for how to do His will, so when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His law. The lie is that God's grace is opposed to God's law, as if a house divided against itself could stand. The truth is that God's grace is what trains us to live according to God's law.

Anything which is not of faith is sin Rom. 14:23. A violation of the law of faith. This is why unbelief is said to be the worst sin over and over and over but somehow you missed that.

According to Deuteronomy 10:13 and Deuteronomy 6:24, what God had commanded was for His people's own good, so the people who believed that to be true and demonstrated that to be the case through living in obedience to God's commands were living by faith, for the righteous shall live by faith (Habakkuk 2:4). Living by faith does not refer to some other manner of living that is not in obedience to God. So if you have unbelief and demonstrate that you don't have faith in God about how you should live through living in unrepentant disobedience to His law, then that is of sin.

The law should reveal that you don't believe in Jesus. Because if you did all your guilt and condemnation would be taken away. You don't keep the law and you never have one day in your whole life.

You are still avoiding giving an answer my question: If you grant that one of the purposes of the Mosaic law was to reveal sin, and you agree that you should not do the things that God has revealed to be sin, then why do you speak against practicing obedience to His law?

Obedience to God's law by faith is not about guilt and condemnation, but about faith and love. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who since Moses who has loved their neighbor as themselves has fulfilled the entire law, so keeping the law is rather easy. According to Deuteronomy 30:11-14, God said that what He commanded was not too difficult for us, so if you say that the law is impossible for me to keep, then you are contradicting God.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You're not a happy Christian are you? Just a sour grape with your teeth set on edge.

Irrelevant skirting the issue. Just as bad as ignoring questions. IOW you haven't a leg to stand on so this is what you do instead of addressing the issue.

God does not give us grace and his spirit under the new testament so we go back to the old testament and keep the law. The greatest lie of all the law-keeping groups - Messianics, Hebrew roots and SDA.

So now that Christ, and his father paid a huge price for our sin, all we need do is accept that, then skip along happily for the rest of out lives, make a practice of breaking the law, and still get to heaven?

Nope, I don't think that was the general idea God/Christ had in mind. I Personally, appreciate what they did enough that I will try harder to keep the commandments than I would with the old covenant.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.


15 What then? Shall we sin wbecause we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!


Not being "under" the law does not mean we aren't to keep the law. Why do you choose to misunderstand that? Says it right there...it states we're are not to sin, and since the law is what defines sin in the first place, we are to keep the law.Or, not sinning means not breaking the law, as the law is the sin God does not want us to do...it is him telling us exactly what sin is so there is no confusion.

Edit:

I wonder why people think not being under the law equates to not having to keep the law? Maybe it's the fact they choose to sin and that is their way of justifying it? That's all I a can figure. And when that becomes the case, I guess people will defend their faulty stance tooth and nail, regardless of how hard one tries to convince them otherwise.

Selfishness is a very powerful thing...so powerful, one is willing to even fool themselves in order to continue in it.