Crikey
If you think what God has done in the past is horrible, please avoid reading revelations
That's going to be one hell of a blood bath, in fact blood bath is literal, blood up to the bridal of a horse (revelations)
Make no mistake God hates sin, God is a God of love and it's also common knowledge God is a God of justice as well
We know that sin deserves death, God deals in justice for sin
The bible does not hide that God is a God of justice, His justice is harsh by human standards no question.
So yes God is love, and God is just.
The punishment for sin is death, that's why Christ is so important
That's why so many have died, Gods justice
Interesting, wouldn't it be good if God was to smite ISIS, well wouldn't it?
This is basic christianity
I have read Revelation, FTI. Its text indicates that it was intended for the time, full of symbolism, and as a direct message to be taken by John to the leaders of the tribes at the time—their names are directly mentioned. Revelation seems like was meant to be fulfilled in the past, it's not something that seems like it's going to be fulfilled in the future.
WHY is death the punishment for sin? God can easily change things so there's no death, or no sin. If God created everything, then he's created sin, and to say so otherwise would mean that sin exists independent of God.
You mean apart from Eden, where his words doubt what God has said to Eve, preaching rebellion and promoting the fall of man into such a state of decay that God has to wipe out all but 8 of them in a flood?
Don't look to youtube videos for wisdom, as many are inspired by that same spirit of strife working still today.
It was never indicated in Genesis that the serpent was Satan, just a serpent who was "the craftiest of all the beasts of the field that God had made". According to Genesis, that's the reason that snakes don't have legs. If it was just Satan disguised as a snake, then the punishment wouldn't make sense if 1. it affects all snakes when Satan clearly wasn't a true snake, and 2. saying "upon your belly you will crawl, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life" if Satan could just as easily transform into a different form. It indicates that the serpent wasn't Satan, just a snake.
Maybe they should look to good teachers on YouTube, not the anti christian rhetoric they find so readily and easy to digest
And let's not forget, this simple stuff should be coming from ministers, most don't know the basics, find a good teaching church, go study
Point me to some good Youtube videos that then actually address the above points in a coherent and not-vague manner and I'll gladly watch them.
It is if one thinks that love must forgive and forget sin or that God must be nice to everyone and not hurt even a fly.
No, you're having it be a strawman argument—what I was saying does not mean "God must not hurt even a fly", just that "God does not command humans to kill and assault and enslave other humans to show one tribe is superior to another".
This post clearly demonstrates that you do not understand the nature and depth of human depravity. Do you not understand that Israel (and you I, for that matter) was just as deserving of these things as any other people group? In fact, do you understand that God would have been perfectly just in destroying Adam and Eve as soon as their rebellious lips touched the fruit? Do you realize that He could just as easily and justly destroyed Noah along with the rest of mankind. You see, you've got it all backwards. As I said, the amazing things is not that God destroys this group or that individual, the amazing thing is that he spared anyone, including you and me.
Tell me, in your opinion, is there anyone in all of Scripture who was destroyed and did not deserve it? Similarly, is there anyone in all of Scripture that God spared that did deserve it? Answer carefully, as your answer will reveal whether your view of human depravity matches Scripture's.
The fact is, there are no innocents. The fact that you ask the question, "Couldn't God have done something more peaceful instead of killing innocents," suggests that your view of human guilt is too low, or perhaps non-existent. Do you realize that the fact that you and I were allowed to live past the point of conception is not just more, but the exact opposite of what we deserve, right?
To consider something "amazing", it's something that goes against what would be expected. If God loves humanity, it would be expected for him to not demand that some humans kill other humans but keep the virgins (among other things), and would be considered "amazing" (in a bad way) if he did. The fact that it's "amazing" that he spares everyone gives off an air of "nothing should have been created because everything is bad", which isn't exactly "love".
I don't think that, at the very least, any of the virgin girls from Numbers 31 deserved to be captured and likely assaulted—if they were "so depraved and bad", why wouldn't God order them killed to? And I don't think those of the other tribes who weren't hurting anyone deserved it either. And for those God spared in Scripture, they deserved it as long as they didn't do heinous actions—and if they did, God could have easily changed their ways. If humanity is really so depraved, God could easily have just not created us. If he knew that a person was going to be bad, he could easily not have them be born.
Sure, humans do bad things at times, so do animals, but think on this—if something is done "by nature", it would be expected to crop up in every member of that species. For instance: dolphins swim by nature, lions eat meat by nature. One's nature is something fundamental to them. If human nature is really "a nature to do bad and terrible things", then almost every human in the world would be killing, assaulting, etc. and you'd be hard-pressed to find a single good charitable human. Is that the case? No, a good number of humans try to be as good as they possibly can, and a fair number aren't even believers.
Crikey
If you think what God has done in the past is horrible, please avoid reading revelations
That's going to be one hell of a blood bath, in fact blood bath is literal, blood up to the bridal of a horse (revelations)
Make no mistake God hates sin, God is a God of love and it's also common knowledge God is a God of justice as well
We know that sin deserves death, God deals in justice for sin
The bible does not hide that God is a God of justice, His justice is harsh by human standards no question.
So yes God is love, and God is just.
The punishment for sin is death, that's why Christ is so important
That's why so many have died, Gods justice
Interesting, wouldn't it be good if God was to smite ISIS, well wouldn't it?
This is basic christianity
I have read Revelation, FTI. Its text indicates that it was intended for the time, full of symbolism, and as a direct message to be taken by John to the leaders of the tribes at the time—their names are directly mentioned. Revelation seems like was meant to be fulfilled in the past, it's not something that seems like it's going to be fulfilled in the future.
WHY is death the punishment for sin? God can easily change things so there's no death, or no sin. If God created everything, then he's created sin, and to say so otherwise would mean that sin exists independent of God.
You mean apart from Eden, where his words doubt what God has said to Eve, preaching rebellion and promoting the fall of man into such a state of decay that God has to wipe out all but 8 of them in a flood?
Don't look to youtube videos for wisdom, as many are inspired by that same spirit of strife working still today.
It was
never indicated in Genesis, or in the Old Testament at all, that the serpent was Satan, just a serpent who was "the craftiest of all the beasts of the field that God had made". According to Genesis, that's the reason that snakes don't have legs. If it was just Satan disguised as a snake, then the punishment wouldn't make sense if 1. it affects all snakes when Satan clearly wasn't a true snake, and 2. saying "upon your belly you will crawl, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life" if Satan could just as easily transform into a different form. It indicates that the serpent wasn't Satan, just a snake.
Maybe they should look to good teachers on YouTube, not the anti christian rhetoric they find so readily and easy to digest
And let's not forget, this simple stuff should be coming from ministers, most don't know the basics, find a good teaching church, go study
Point me to some good Youtube videos that then actually address the above points in a concise coherent manner that doesn't just gloss over them and I'll watch them.
Every WORD of YHWH is PERFECT, restoring the soul (when TRUTH is known).
Who said humans are supposed to be closer to God ?
Yes, humans are baffled.
Well, actually, that's too 'nice' and polite.
Yes, in truth, humans are very sinful, evil and wicked, lacking any understanding of YHWH and not seeking HIM, being sons of disobedience bent on "kill, steal, and destroy".
What about the fact that God commanded some of the "kill, steal, and destroy" aspects?
"we" don't. Most all the world does not.
If you knew SCRIPTURE is PERFECT,
if you know YHWH is PERFECT,
you wouldn't question the way you do.
Remember no one is trained nor taught correctly on this earth, with very few exceptions.
We are raised in an evil wicked society,
just like the crowds before the flood, when no one sought GOD and no one was saved from the flood except NOAH and the 7 with him who got on the ark.
Remember - EVERYONE , everyone , everyone who got on the ark was saved.
Everyone, everyone, everyone who did not get on the ark was not saved.
No exception.
Everyone on earth was wicked and evil like Esau.
There heart was full of sin, opposed to GOD, and they
refused to turn to HIM to be saved.
Same TODAY.
Few exceptions.
That's the point I'm trying to make—how do we KNOW Scripture is perfect? There were many "Scriptures" going around that time, and if some of those had been accepted into the Bible we might have a completely different picture of what Scripture was. How can we know some things haven't been left out, or altered of what we do have? Heck, at some time in history people weren't even allowed to own Bibles, only those in power could.
The old testament period was a time of harsh judgment. God met the vile behaviors and atrocities of those gentile nations with harsh judgment, as did he with Israel as well. And what good would it do to allow a human king if that king didn't do what human kings do (as you have rightly pointed out)?
But it didn't have to be a time of harsh judgement. God could have very easily changed the minds of the people in the OT so they were more like those in the NT, or perfectly moral, and didn't want to kill people.
Well, here goes. I realize many of you will disagree but, that's okay. The lie/veil that has been pulled over mankind's eyes is very strong and very deep.
When man fell the Father promised a redeemer. He told Eve that ... Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."
From the moment of the fall until Messiah's birth one of the enemies greatest efforts was to PREVENT the coming of Messiah.
So, what about this Veil/Lie am I talking about? Its the sublet almost invisible lie many to most believers hold true almost on a subconscious level. And it has to do with Adam and Eve and their offspring. The lie is that they were "primitive" and were not particularly "evolved" The truth is in fact the exact opposite. Adam and Eve were Stunning physically, emotionally and intellectually.
Contrary to what some try to teach, that "angels" slept with women and that is where the Nephilim came from, it was the ungodly line descended from Cain that did this. Pre-flood man was highly advanced and began to manipulate DNA and created perversions G-d never intended to exist.
Think for a second perhaps one can understand G-d killing mankind for being evil (this argument is deeply flawed as well and I will show you why) but everything that had the breath of life? Why kill the animals though?????? Notice what G-d says..... that they were CORRUPT in their ways. Corrupt how? Mankind morally has NEVER improved.
We don't have slavery as widespread as in the old days. Maybe people are tolerant of others' religions and don't wipe them out because God orders them to. I'd say that we have improved morally as a whole since those days. There will always be some bad people, but in general, most don't act, well, like in the OT.
So its difficult to place just mans sin as the sole reason G-d was so grieved.... What was G-d unaware that man would continue to sin? Cant believe that as he is G-d. He knew fallen man needed a redeemer and had a plan for that to occur so WHY did G-d say he was so grieved that he wanted to destroy creation?! Because man has begun to corrupt his own DNA. It explains why it was JUST Noah, Noah's wife and his 3 sons along with their wives.
Interestingly, we see the Nephilim return after the flood, how is that possible????? Well, if the wives of the sons Noah's boys married had some tainted DNA, that is how.... We see shortly after the Flood the tower of Babel and what are they trying to do? Get back what they lost in the flood and it explains what G-d said... and why they had to be scattered and their language confused to STOP what they were trying to do...
That takes is to when Moses leads the children of Israel out of Egypt towards the promised land and it explains why Some cities were allowed to surrender, other the cities were sacked and the men killed and still others EVERYTHING that had life was killed and burned. It was ALL about cleansing the land and insuring that the corrupt DNA was completely removed.
A surgeon removes the cancer and cuts it all out for it he misses any it will spread through the body and kill it....G-d did the same
If life is a cancer, then why would God create the cancer in the first place? Or just eradicate everything and nor let Noah and his family live?
Yes. PERFECTLY.
PERFECT LOVE requires PERFECT JUSTICE.
Define how, exactly, it's "perfect justice".
I see by your profile you are single and Catholic. May I assume you have never raised a child? The 2 year old does not know language yet, and is not capable of logical processing. If he is not taught that he cannot tell his mother no (that nice new word he learned just yesterday), mothers are indeed often afraid of dystopian societies.
It is not tough love that God showed, but simply the only thing that the societies of the day understood. That is my point. Read Philo's works on how laws are chosen by the framers of cultures, or compare what God did to what Ba'al did, or any general of that day. God was most merciful by comparison, and there was purpose to His commands that completely escapes those of us who have matured far beyond what those societies thought.
Ancient people were in fact two year olds growing up, compared to those of us who have now all received the Holy Spirit. And it's not hard to see that anywhere on earth, where Jesus is not followed, society does tend to get a little dystopian.
I see your point, and I haven't raised a child before. However, saying its "how the societies of the day understood", that's where the parent-child analogy fails. A parent can raise a two-year-old to try to be good, and do things that aren't bad, but here's the thing: human parents can't suddenly give their child all the knowledge needed in order to have them figure out the world as the parent sees it. God, however, has no such limitations. He could easily help the ancient people to "grow up" with no ambiguity, time, or effort on his part.
Actually most people seem to die, because God allows it, not just some ancient people in OT. I don’t think it is bad, if God kills, after all, He also gave the life, so there is nothing to complain, if He don’t allow it to last forever. I have no reason to demand eternal life from God and I have not yet seen anyone saying that he has done something why God must give the eternal life for him.
But still, God has promised eternal life for some:
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
And wage of sin will even today be death:
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23
I think it is good, if God doesn’t allow unrighteous people live forever, because I believe they would make life eternal suffering for all, if allowed to live.
But it makes me wonder, why there is no video in YouTube that shows how many lives Satan has given and how many lives God has given (all life, even his enemies lives).
I'm definitely not against unrighteousness people getting just punishment, I'' against severe punishment done for what may be seen as petty or intolerant reasons (like not believing in Yahweh but otherwise not hurting anyone).
And maybe there's no video like that because one could just make the argument, "God gave life to everything", end of video, nothing new learned.
