How Can We Know the Sabbath is Saturday? (moved)

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is being moved to the Sabbath and The Law forum. It fits there better.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

true!


it was relevant only because of the erroneous statements you made in your point #1.

other than that, i actually agree with your premise.

I thought I made a mistake once, but I was mistaken....

 

[Bob S]

First of all no one has defined how ancient Israel kept track of time There is no evidence that they had a parchment calendar with a continuous weekly cycle. One popular theory (Lunar calendar) that has gained momentum is that the Israelites reckoned time by the moon cycle. When a new moon was cited the following day was the weekly Sabbath. The 7 day weekly Sabbath cycle would begin day one Sabbath, day 8 Sabbath, day 15 Sabbath , day 22 Sabbath and day 28 Sabbath. Then according to when the new moon was cited determined the next cycle's beginning again. So you see that maybe they didn't observe every 7 days. If something happened like their being held captive and would loose date sequence the moon cycle would be there to get them back on track. This sounds very plausible to me since many of the feast days were determined according to the moon cycle. Maybe everyone who is trying to observe the Israelite Sabbaths are not in accord with God's reckoning. Besides, we know for sure that the moon cycle played a role in determining other ritual days like Passover.

We know for sure that the man made International date line changed the Sabbath day. Either from the dateline line West to Mt Sinai people are trying to observe Jewish Sabbath are off a day or all the World is off approx a half day. The day began at Sinai and worked West until it was observed around the World. That took 47.999999999+ hours to accomplish. When the dateline was established the people in New Zealand began the day instead of Israel. I have not been able to determine if the change effected everyone on Earth or just about half of the population. What I do know is that some people are trying to observe the wrong day. I wish I could find record of how the feat was accomplished. Put some thought to it all.

Until the dateline their was no universal reckoning of time. Yes, a calendar was established but their was no communication from one part of the educated World to another. It was all controlled by opinions.

 

[ebedmelech]

Jesus IS the Sabbath! There's no more Sabbath keeping!

Matthew 11:28-30:
28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Hebrews 4:1-5 makes it pretty clear when we come to Christ, we rest in HIM:
Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
5 and again in this passage, “They shall not enter My rest.”

There are those who want to keep the Sabbath who don't realize Jesus is now the 4th commandment, and I will not strive with them. Some can see it...some cannot.

I'm resting in Jesus...He gave me His rest!!!

 

[JohnRabbit]

I thought I made a mistake once, but I was mistaken....

Lol!

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Jesus IS the Sabbath! There's no more Sabbath keeping!

Matthew 11:28-30:
28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Hebrews 4:1-5 makes it pretty clear when we come to Christ, we rest in HIM:
Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
5 and again in this passage, “They shall not enter My rest.”

There are those who want to keep the Sabbath who don't realize Jesus is now the 4th commandment, and I will not strive with them. Some can see it...some cannot.

I'm resting in Jesus...He gave me His rest!!!

Do you believe Adam and Eve were in Jesus' rest?

 

[Bob S]

Jesus IS the Sabbath! There's no more Sabbath keeping!

Matthew 11:28-30:
28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Hebrews 4:1-5 makes it pretty clear when we come to Christ, we rest in HIM:
Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, “As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
5 and again in this passage, “They shall not enter My rest.”

There are those who want to keep the Sabbath who don't realize Jesus is now the 4th commandment, and I will not strive with them. Some can see it...some cannot.

I'm resting in Jesus...He gave me His rest!!!

Amen to that.

 

[bugkiller]

Sometimes I think you're 14 and haven't really ever read or studied the Bible... or an atheist scoffer... not sure which.

Who cares. You still can't quote anything from Genesis about the sabbath. Your argument fails. Heads I win, tails you lose.

Yes I've both read the whole Bible word for word several times. I've also studied it. Besides I was really sharpened on this subject by a n SDA neighbor who tried to convert me for 10 years.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Do you believe Adam and Eve were in Jesus' rest?

No!

bugkiller

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So, he created them and walked with them in the garden but you don't think they were as close as a creation could be to their creator. Remember what Jesus said, the One who created all things, "the Sabbath was made for man", meaning Adam as well...

Adam came into being just as the first Sabbath was observed. Remember, it says that God rested the seventh day, you can be sure Adam and Eve rested with Him.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Who cares. You still can't quote anything from Genesis about the sabbath. Your argument fails. Heads I win, tails you lose.

Yes I've both read the whole Bible word for word several times. I've also studied it. Besides I was really sharpened on this subject by a n SDA neighbor who tried to convert me for 10 years.

bugkiller

Gen 2:2,3
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ex 20:10,11
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:...
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[BobRyan]

Adam and Eve had the Law of God written in their hearts - as sinless, perfect beings. They also had God as their Father - they were the children of God - "The son of God" as the Gospels call Adam - being made directly by God himself. God did not "make an enemy" in creating Adam and Eve. Full and complete fellowship - worshiping God "who made the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water".

But they did not appeal to God to "save them from the Lake of Fire" -- because they were not doomed to it.
They did not appeal to God to have someone else's obedience stand in the place of their filth.

That context only applies to fallen humans - not sinless ones.

 

[BobRyan]

As to the OP, 'How to know the Sabbath is Saturday':

Calendars have changed the months, but not the days, nor weeks.
Records exist among the Jews dating back to the 2nd Temple Period. They can prove the Seventh day back that far.
And 2nd Temple means the time when Yeshua waked among us. If Saturday Sabbath was good enough for him...

Which is the topic of this thread.

Thanks!

 

[Bob S]

So, he created them and walked with them in the garden but you don't think they were as close as a creation could be to their creator. Remember what Jesus said, the One who created all things, "the Sabbath was made for man", meaning Adam as well...

Adam came into being just as the first Sabbath was observed. Remember, it says that God rested the seventh day, you can be sure Adam and Eve rested with Him.

God rested from creation. In actuality God never rests, but scripture says HE rested from his work of creating. Adam and Eve didn't do any creating, they were bystanders to the event. It says nothing about Adam resting, but lets say you are correct God invited Adam and Eve to rest with Him. What really does that prove? Did Noah rest every Sabbath? How about Abraham? Can you find anywhere in all of history where anyone has found evidence of Sabbath observers until just before Sinai? If Sabbath, as SDAs insist is a salvational issue then why didn't God ever reveal it to any of His children except of course the Israelites? Even when he did introduce the day as Holy He made it in commemoration of the escape from bondage and in remembrance of creation. The Sabbath was a memorial for the nation of Israel and no one else. It was part of the covenant at Sinai and lasted as long as God put up with their breaking the covenant. Now the covenant is merely history. Jesus is author of the new covenant not like the old one, a better one. That is why Paul could write:
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 2Cor 3:7-11

That covenant didn't last. It was a conditional covenant, IF you do this I will do that. They didn't as history reveals and finally after many tries Sent Jesus and thus the New Covenant. A covenant not based on 10 commandments as the guide, but the actual Holy Spirit dwelling in us and guiding us. Amen and Amen.

Do you believe the Bible? Do you believe Paul was used by God to reveal truth to man? It would seem like some do not because of preconceived ideas gleaned from the churches they attend. The fact is if you do believe Paul was inspired to write 2Cor 3:7-11 then you have to reconsider what you previously thought was truth. I did and and I lost some of my SDA friends, but the rewards are tremendous. I am free in Christ. No church is piling baggage on me. I understand true grace. It is a glorious life not having unneeded rituals lead my life. You know what I mean I am sure. Need I write more?

 

[bugkiller]

So, he created them and walked with them in the garden but you don't think they were as close as a creation could be to their creator. Remember what Jesus said, the One who created all things, "the Sabbath was made for man", meaning Adam as well...

Adam came into being just as the first Sabbath was observed. Remember, it says that God rested the seventh day, you can be sure Adam and Eve rested with Him.

Jesus as Redeemer had not entered the picture at this point.

You're trying to foist the idea Adam and Eve actually walked and talked with Jesus. I'd like to see some proof.

Since Adam was created on the 6th day, how could he have worked 6 days to observe what you claim to be the sabbath? What exactly does the Bible say God blessed in Genesis 2?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Gen 2:2,3
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ex 20:10,11
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:...
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Sorry but the word shabbath doesn't appear in Genesis. The shabbath doesn't come into play until Ex 16.

Furthermore the claim the sabbath is for all mankind is false as the Book of the Law states its only for Israel.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Adam and Eve had the Law of God written in their hearts - as sinless, perfect beings. They also had God as their Father - they were the children of God - "The son of God" as the Gospels call Adam - being made directly by God himself. God did not "make an enemy" in creating Adam and Eve. Full and complete fellowship - worshiping God "who made the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water".

But they did not appeal to God to "save them from the Lake of Fire" -- because they were not doomed to it.
They did not appeal to God to have someone else's obedience stand in the place of their filth.

That context only applies to fallen humans - not sinless ones.

bladderdash. This is pulled out of some hat like a rabbit. There'sabsolutley nothing in the Bible to support your post.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

God rested from creation. In actuality God never rests, but scripture says HE rested from his work of creating. Adam and Eve didn't do any creating, they were bystanders to the event. It says nothing about Adam resting, but lets say you are correct God invited Adam and Eve to rest with Him. What really does that prove? Did Noah rest every Sabbath? How about Abraham? Can you find anywhere in all of history where anyone has found evidence of Sabbath observers until just before Sinai? If Sabbath, as SDAs insist is a salvational issue then why didn't God ever reveal it to any of His children except of course the Israelites? Even when he did introduce the day as Holy He made it in commemoration of the escape from bondage and in remembrance of creation. The Sabbath was a memorial for the nation of Israel and no one else. It was part of the covenant at Sinai and lasted as long as God put up with their breaking the covenant. Now the covenant is merely history. Jesus is author of the new covenant not like the old one, a better one. That is why Paul could write:
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 2Cor 3:7-11

That covenant didn't last. It was a conditional covenant, IF you do this I will do that. They didn't as history reveals and finally after many tries Sent Jesus and thus the New Covenant. A covenant not based on 10 commandments as the guide, but the actual Holy Spirit dwelling in us and guiding us. Amen and Amen.

Do you believe the Bible? Do you believe Paul was used by God to reveal truth to man? It would seem like some do not because of preconceived ideas gleaned from the churches they attend. The fact is if you do believe Paul was inspired to write 2Cor 3:7-11 then you have to reconsider what you previously thought was truth. I did and and I lost some of my SDA friends, but the rewards are tremendous. I am free in Christ. No church is piling baggage on me. I understand true grace. It is a glorious life not having unneeded rituals lead my life. You know what I mean I am sure. Need I write more?

You need to do some study on this. The English version say God rested. The original text says ceased.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

So, he created them and walked with them in the garden but you don't think they were as close as a creation could be to their creator. Remember what Jesus said, the One who created all things, "the Sabbath was made for man", meaning Adam as well...

Adam came into being just as the first Sabbath was observed. Remember, it says that God rested the seventh day, you can be sure Adam and Eve rested with Him.

Its simply amazing you would make such a claim. Please explain why God waited 5,000 or so years before telling mankind such a thing.

bugkiller

 

[ebedmelech]

Do you believe Adam and Eve were in Jesus' rest?

Sure they did...AFTER Christ ascended. There was no written Law for Adam and Eve...except the law written on the heart. The Law came into being after Israel crossed the Red sea.