Why is homosexuality the one subject that may be too hot to handle?

Dave-W

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In the New Testament it was one woman married off to a man often against her will with him having total say in the marriage in all things.
That may have fit Greek society and definately fit Samaritan society; but it did NOT fit the Jewish society of NT times.

Yes marriages were arranged by the parents when the couple was in what we know as grade school. (age 5-9) But both parties had a right of refusal up to the signing of the Ketubah or marriage contract - usually about age 12-13. The girl continued to have a right of refusal until consummation - which was typically about a year later. The boy did NOT have that right and the only way he could get out of it was to divorce her.

That was the position Joseph found himself in when Mary turned up pregnant.


Source: Talmud and Mishnah tractates Ketubot and Kidoshim.
 
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sahjimira

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In answer to the original question.. I think homosexuality for me is a sin I can't relate to. Most other sins
I can. I do wish there was a forum for ex-gays. On this site it's usually who's right. Firm conviction on each side. I had friends at work who were gay and they went to a gay church. That was news to me as I didn't know there were any. I do not hate gays..I just believe it does go against the bible. As far as getting kicked out of the church Paul says to confront the sinner who is deliberately living in, confront them in love and if they will not repent and turn from that sin they should have no fellowship. A little leven will leven the whole. That goes for ANY known sin.
 
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circuitrider

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I don't think churches should be force to change how they see scripture and that is what it is coming to that is very wrong.

Ask for psychology, I have seen it used a lot in an evil way of late. Hitler used it in an evil way. There is awful lot of criticism towards religion. I see none for psychology. It's giving someone else a great deal of power and that is a very scary thing. Especially, considering that with the drop of an hat, they can change what they want in their every growing book.

No one is forcing churches to change how they see scripture. Some churches are choosing to change their understanding of scripture and other are not.

As someone with an undergrad degree in Behavioral Science I'm a bit aghast that you would use anything Hitler did as an example with a problem with Psychology. Hitler also did medical research on people. That doesn't make medicine a bad thing. Just because someone misuses psychology doesn't make psychology bad. Also note that Hitler is about 80 years ago. Some abuse from recent history might be more relevant.
 
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circuitrider

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In answer to the original question.. I think homosexuality for me is a sin I can't relate to. Most other sins
I can. I do wish there was a forum for ex-gays.

I don't think there is such a thing as "ex-gays." The recent stories of groups that have tried to use some form of counseling to "un-gay" people have failed. Exodus International closed its doors admitting that therapy to make a gay person straight was a terrible failure.

It reminds me of when society tried to force left-handed people to be right handed. It was found to do psychological damage to the child including increasing the incidents of stuttering. There is nothing wrong with being left-handed. The society just wanted everyone to be right-handed.
 
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Dave-W

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Thanks Dave. I was primarily thinking of Greek society.
I suspected that - but the NT writers mostly came from either Jewish writers in the land or Jewish writers in the Diaspora. Luke may have been the one exception but many scholars do not think so. Paul would have fit both descriptions.

The customs were similar between Jerusalem, the Galilee area and the Jewish Greek-speaking diaspora communities.
 
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Dave-W

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true.

But women COULD (in opposition to the surrounding cultures) deny a marriage proposal, own property, engage in business, bring a law suit (including against her husband), and if he divorces her she is to be supported by him until she remarries or dies.

Pretty radical stuff in that age.
 
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circuitrider

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true.

But women COULD (in opposition to the surrounding cultures) deny a marriage proposal, own property, engage in business, bring a law suit (including against her husband), and if he divorces her she is to be supported by him until she remarries or dies.

Pretty radical stuff in that age.

True. And Paul was much more affirming of women than people give him credit for.

He said that men and women were to "submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." He didn't start out with "wives submit to your husbands." The paragraph starts with "submit to one another."
 
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Dave-W

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Paul was much more affirming of women than people give him credit for.
Very true. I think the reason is they filter Paul's writings thru what they know of Greek and Roman culture. They really do not understand Jewish culture - and many seem to be repulse at the idea of even discussing it. (of course pagan Rome and Greece does not repulse them - what's wrong with this picture?) "Christ killers" et al.

When you read Paul with a Jewish viewpoint, his affirmation of women becomes clearer.

And on the subject of submission, (which my dad took as license to make slaves out of all women) to those who insist on wives submitting; I bring up Hebrews 13.17 where it says to submit to congregational leadership. That does not say women only. Primarily it was written to men. So if a man wants his wife to submit to him, is he willing to submit HIMSELF to the pastor/elders/deacons etc. to that same degree? If not, he is being inconsistent. Maybe even hypocritical.
 
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RomansFiveEight

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Very true. I think the reason is they filter Paul's writings thru what they know of Greek and Roman culture. They really do not understand Jewish culture - and many seem to be repulse at the idea of even discussing it. (of course pagan Rome and Greece does not repulse them - what's wrong with this picture?) "Christ killers" et al.

When you read Paul with a Jewish viewpoint, his affirmation of women becomes clearer.

And on the subject of submission, (which my dad took as license to make slaves out of all women) to those who insist on wives submitting; I bring up Hebrews 13.17 where it says to submit to congregational leadership. That does not say women only. Primarily it was written to men. So if a man wants his wife to submit to him, is he willing to submit HIMSELF to the pastor/elders/deacons etc. to that same degree? If not, he is being inconsistent. Maybe even hypocritical.

I also grew up in a home with a similar attitude. Women are always subservient to men. The beliefs got worse than that. A deeply held "biblical" belief that children should remain quiet and hidden when other adults were in the house, and should never speak to anyone in public unless spoken to. Of course, if anyone criticized my biological dads many faults, they were simply wrong. When he was kicked out of his Baptist church (speaking of submitting to the church), it was because "satan" had gotten ahold of them and "Satan" didn't want my dad in that church. Twice he was kicked out of churches, and twice he used the excuse that he was some special person called by Jesus and because Satan had infected the church, they were all kicking him out. (As it turns out, they were kicking him out for having affairs or trying to have affairs with women in the church; not that the churches told my mother, they didn't want to 'hurt her' you see). As you can see, it's a pattern. Being superior to women is about ego, not Biblical obedience.

And you're right; the belief has to accompany this idea that the church rules over the men, and the men the women. Rarely do these men who want women to 'submit' to them accept ANY other authority other than their own, much less the men in the church called to lead.

But of course, from a UM perspective, this is so far off in right field. While there are some issues facing all organizations, like women making less than men in the UMC, for the most part women are completely included in the UMC, from Bishops to ad council Presidents. And I can honestly say that we are getting to a point, at least in my conference, where a persons gender is mostly ignored. I don't ever hear comments about male vs female Bishops, and we've had both. Nor have I heard anyone even mention the fact that our former DS was a woman (as in "We've got a female DS" in a context where someone would not say "We have a male DS"). Though in some of our churches, work must still be done. My predecessor was a woman and I once heard the comment "She really showed us that women can be Pastors". It was meant as a compliment to her but, in reality, it showed a deeply rooted distrust of women.

The following comment has nothing to do with the political affiliation of these two women, it just so happens to be something I observed. But one individual I know speaks quite frequently about the "Role of women" and said back in 2012 and says now that Hillary Clinton is not fit for office because she's a woman and women shouldn't lead. This same individual has also commented on Carly Fiorina and shared memes of her, claiming she's an example of a "real woman leader" (the context assumed is, 'unlike Hillary'). So it seems his REAL issue is LIBERAL female leaders. I suspect he also won't like a male liberal.
 
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Dave-W

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A deeply held "biblical" belief that children should remain quiet and hidden when other adults were in the house, and should never speak to anyone in public unless spoken to.
Yeah - that was the rule in my home also.
And you're right; the belief has to accompany this idea that the church rules over the men, and the men the women. Rarely do these men who want women to 'submit' to them accept ANY other authority other than their own, much less the men in the church called to lead.
My experience as well. To me, biblical submission to congregational leadership is more of an important issue than wives to husbands.
 
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circuitrider

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United Methodist aren't big on theologies of submission to persons. We believe in a theology of discipline. We submit to a mutually agreed upon understandings of the Church as a whole, not to the random whims of congregational leaders.

IMHO congregationalism is largely an American creation that is at its core Biblically unsupportable. You don't find independent congregations in the New Testament that didn't have to answer to the concerns of the wider Church. They aren't there. They are largely a figment of the imagination of those reading back congregationalism into the New Testament from a modern American obsession with individual independence.
 
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GraceSeeker

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Do you all have any thoughts as to why homosexuality is the one topic that where the discussion is so contentious that we are voting on if we can talk about it or not?

Your guess is as good as mine as to the reason why it is. But I can affirm THAT it is. I joined several Methodist Facebook groups, because in some areas I realize that I am fairly conservative (such as the authority and interpretation of scripture) I generally allow myself to be classified as a conservative, at least theologically. But, there are plenty of other issues where I what most people would call liberal or progressive -- immigration, gun control, role of women in society, providing for children's welfare by ministering to the whole family across one's lifespan, redistribution of wealth, the function of government -- so, I had joined many groups regardless of their "progressive" or "conservative" labels. What I found is that all these groups were discussing one topic and it was a war of words wherever one went.

The other issues you mentioned, "abortion, gun control/rights, immigration, euthanasia, stem cell research, issues related to welfare and poverty, war and peace, etc." may have their passionate devotees. But with them we seem to follow the advice that in essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity. And, assuming that these issues are not essentials of the faith, or essentials for salvation (even though we might argue that some of them are essentially literally life & death issues for many), we acknowledge our differences, but allow people room to think and let think. Not with the issue of homosexuality or same sex marriage. And people create strawmen to argue against on this issue, misstating the position of those they seek to oppose (and, I believe, even intentionally so) more than any other topic in my current memory. The most recent illustration of this was a serious of memes that suggested that if a church doesn't allow for the posters' way of thinking with regard to SSM that then it isn't really practicing Open Doors, and that all are not welcome. (see....http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kimberlyknight/2015/10/all-are-not-welcome/) Such an approach is about driving wedges rather than seeking common ground. It says if you don't see the world my way AND on my terms, then we cannot connect; I don't want to have anything to do with you and reject that idea that you could want to have anything to do with me. And the other side (see how quickly we fall into this dichotomous way of speaking, not another point but "the other side", everything is set in oppositional language) does the same thing in reverse.

We will not meet you halfway; we will not even meet you a quarter of the way. I don't want to talk to you about this; it isn't up for debate. You can take Francis of Assisi's advice, "seek not so much to be understood, but to understand," and shove it! It is my way or the highway, end of discussion.​

I believe it is actually bigger than the question of homosexuality and same-sex marriage. I think it is about power and who has control of it for not just this issue but all future points of contention as well. It is about choosing up teams, and the question of homosexuality has been made the defacto litmus test in the choosing for the great assize. And, as a result we don't talk, we don't understand, and there is no discussion -- just a war of words and not so subtle skirmishes of wresting control one side from the other.
 
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sahjimira

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I don't think there is such a thing as "ex-gays." The recent stories of groups that have tried to use some form of counseling to "un-gay" people have failed. Exodus International closed its doors admitting that therapy to make a gay person straight was a terrible failure.

It reminds me of when society tried to force left-handed people to be right handed. It was found to do psychological damage to the child including increasing the incidents of stuttering. There is nothing wrong with being left-handed. The society just wanted everyone to be right-handed.
I have known x-gays that were delivered by the LLord. One said one x-gay said "gays are not gay, believe me deep down inside they are unhappy people and know what they're doing is not right" now I ddidn't say that he did. OK that wwas just one person but I believe if there is one surely there are more. I think a site for them would b comforting and have fellowship there.
 
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circuitrider

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I have known x-gays that were delivered by the LLord. One said one x-gay said "gays are not gay, believe me deep down inside they are unhappy people and know what they're doing is not right" now I ddidn't say that he did. OK that wwas just one person but I believe if there is one surely there are more. I think a site for them would b comforting and have fellowship there.

We are in a very different place theologically and psychologically on this one. One's sexual orientation isn't something to be delivered from. Also the most current psychological research and experiences by groups that used to believe they could change people from gay to straight has shown very negative results from the attempt.

Yes a lot of LGBT people are unhappy in part because many churches make them unhappy telling them they are terrible awful sinners because they are gay. That's not much of a formula for happiness.
 
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RomansFiveEight

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You'll excuse my crudeness for a moment but sahjimira would you have sex with someone of the same-gender if you thought God didn't forbid it? With so spiritual or legal or moral ramifications aside would that appeal to you? My guess is not. My guess is you've never ever felt a physical attraction to someone of the same sex. Be thankful. I sure am. Life is much easier that way. Nobody questions my love or attraction to my wife, nobody says it's wrong, nobody says it's a phase and nobody says that I'm faking it.

But for LGBT persons, these attractions are real. They aren't making it up. How could they, and why would they? Look, I can tolerate and be okay with traditional perspectives regarding homosexuality and the Bible and if you don't think your church should marry gays, fine. But the idea that gays are just 'faking it' or 'messed up' is just wrong.

GraceSeeker,

You're speaking to my soul with that post. For the past two years I've been trying to figure out what label fits me and I don't think any of them do. I think God loves people more than he does money and I think God loves all people more than he does any one specific group. So I suppose that makes me 'liberal' on issues of wealth distribution, immigration, healthcare, etc. I think everyone deserves a fighting chance, food to eat, a place to sleep, and a doctor if they need one. Not because they've done something to deserve it, and even if they've done something to 'underserve' it. Because they were created by the same God that created me. I also think that people deserve a right to fairness so I can never agree with "they had it coming" statements regarding police use of force (i.e., they were breaking the law so I don't care that they got shot. Is vigilante lynch Justice the best we can hope for in this country?), and I think the death penalty is one of societies gravest sins; because it creates a situation where society says "Strapping someone to a gurney and injected them with drugs to kill them makes us feel better; and our feelings of justice and vengeance are more important than this persons life, because they've sinned in a specific way". It completely ignores redemption and grace. I'm not saying lets break open the prison gates (well, maybe for the tremendous number of non-violent offenders in there for unpaid traffic tickets and small time drug possession), but I am saying that life is God's to give and take away, not ours.

I also question whether Christian morality that isn't universal morality (blue laws, laws against homosexuality, etc.) is what our country should be forced to follow, especially when we're unwilling to be moral Christians in other ways (caring for the poor, etc.)

All these things make me a liberal, apparently. Although some of them are what I wound consider conservative (What's more small government than opposing additional regulation based on one subset of one religions sense of morality?)

But I also think the Bible is a definitive authority, containing all that's necessary for salvation; and though each page has different worth and meaning, it ALL has some worth and meaning. I can say the whole Apostles creed without my fingers crossed. While I understand the tremendous weight and complication of rape, incest, and medical necessity; and I understand I'm a man without a uterus who won't ever be faced with this decision; AND I understand that Abortions happened before they were legal and were much more dangerous then. Despite understanding all of that, my heart breaks that it's okay for human beings to take an innocent life because they didn't want to have a child, or didn't want THAT child. Abortion as a means of gender selection, as a means to 'weed out' undesirable children (children with defects), and as a means of birth control, I believe, is morally wrong. And that's an issue close to my heart. Back in 1990, a Doctor sat down with my mother in a little room with images of an ultrasound and suggested she have an abortion, because if that Baby even took a breath, it would be a vegetable or at least severely retarted (the language of the time). She was explained that there was simply nothing there and that this wasn't an "if" it was a "for sure". I've been called worse, but I did survive and turned out okay. Thank God for my mother, who grew up in a liberal home whose grandmother (my great grandmother) was called all sorts of names for daring to get an advanced degree (a ph.D.) and not being a stay-at-home mom, a teacher, or a nurse. But instead, to be a college professor; one of the first women at her university. Or for her mother to be a United Methodist Pastor. Whose Christian morality, despite being more 'liberal' in the eyes of the Southern Baptists all around us, said that under no circumstances was abortion the right choice for her.

Politically, I also think any new regulation should be carefully looked at and it's real and genuine impact should be weighed. We can't regulate an entire industry based on the actions of a small minority. More people died from reactions to tylenol (and liver disease from using it too much) every year, for example, than have EVER died from a tampered bottle. Yet the media scare of tampered bottles found in one store created a regulation that requires tamper-proof seals on medication. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I'm just saying we shouldn't be so knee-jerk when the statistics don't really back it up. The TSA, a statistically and repeatedly-demonstrated completely ineffective show put on by our government to make us feel safer (without actually making us safer; or stopping a single terrorist, or even noticing homeland security agents smuggling weapons on board aircraft to 'test' the TSA, a test they failed 97% of the time), is an example of fear running our country, and not reason.

I think people should live with a sense of morality, that fidelity in marriage and abstinence in singleness are components of health, Christ-centered relationships and that every healthy marriage should include God at the center. I think there are many paths to God but they should eventually lead to Jesus. I don't believe I'm on one of dozens of equally valid paths; I believe I'm on the path God intended. I don't know if God's grace is so abounding that it would extend even to those who worship in other ways. Im fairly certain, at least in some circumstances, it probably will. Even so, I believe that Christianity and a faith in Jesus Christ is what God intended for us. I believe God created the universe, and created me.

So I guess I'm a conservative evangelical?

Either way, I'm not going to be fitting into any molds any time soon.
 
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gtmyers

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One thing that is a little unique in your polity is the local election of Elders and the local hiring of Pastors; though others are ordained, no church has to 'hire' a Gay pastor. In the UMC, Pastors are appointed. Some are concerned opening up ordination to gays would open them up to getting a gay Pastor appointed.

One proposed solution, for example, is to allow each annual conference to decide. As ordination is a matter for the annual conferences, individual annual conferences could choose not to ordain gays. Generally, Pastors are appointed within a specific annual conference so you wouldn't have the concern of a Gay pastor appointed to a non-affirming church. Though a Pastor ordained elsewhere could, I suppose, transfer to a non-affirming Annual Conference, I'm not sure; maybe they'd have specific rules and standards for appointment? But that would be unprecedented.

At the end of the day though, just like a very evangelical Pastor won't be appointed to a suburban reconciling church, the Bishop and the Cabinet are smart enough to navigate these muddy waters.

In the past, a fear of a Black Bishop caused the formation of our jurisdictional conferences. While unprecedented before, Jurisdictional conferences allows a small subset of annual conference to elect and appoint their own Bishops. It has some redeeming qualities (a Bishop from Texas isn't going to be appointed to serve in Alaska, for example). Some challenges (Texas is bigger than the rest of the conferences in the South-Central Jurisdiction, so almost every Bishop comes from Texas, almost without exception. Nearly every Bishop serving in this jurisdiction is from Texas.), but ultimately, it was borne out of a fear that a black Bishop might be appointed to supervise white Pastors. We've been through these challenges before, and we've found a way to compromise and make things work until the issue moved on.

To Circuitwriters question;

I have the same question. Even when I was as Evangelical as the next guy and felt the Bible clearly condemned homosexuality, I wondered why there was so much fascination with sex. I recall growing up in an Evangelical Southern Baptist household and watching war movies with lots of violence with my dad (his favorite genre) and the blood, guts, gore and language was fine, as was the shooting and the violence; but if there was a scene where a solider finds a lonely french maiden and they begin to kiss, I'd have to leave the room. And we're not talking inappropriate content here, we're talking about the usual censored "sex" shown in movies. Growing up, it was apparent sex was really, really bad; and nothing else was as bad.

As I've studied the issue (some), including with my undergraduate in Psychology and my fascination with that, I've discovered that has popped up more recently. It seems in the last few decades, sex and sexuality has become more and more of an issue. On all fronts. Even breasts! There was a time when woman would breastfeed in church; and not even "cover themselves up". (There are photographs online if you really want to venture out; old black and whites of women in the congregation breast feeding their children in the pews). And while homosexuality isn't new, it was much more 'hidden' in the past. I had a conversation with my Mom a couple of months ago, who is 23 years older than me (no surprises there, right?). In her generation, she didn't know any gay people. Except, she did, only she didn't find out until she was in her 30's. These people didn't "become gay" when they were older, they just wouldn't dare 'come out of the closet' in high school. In my generation, I knew several gay students. They were 'out' or at least 'partly out' (some knew, some didn't), so my generation was more exposed to this; which is why the millennial generation largely affirms homosexuality. We have been around people who have gone through the pain of 'coming out', some have been kicked out of their homes, even murdered (a young man in my town was killed by his stepdad when he came out), and we find they have the same feelings and struggles as us; just with a different gender. And we realize just how "Bull" "It's a choice" is because there's no way anybody would CHOOSE that, and every gay person I know went through at least a period of their life where they wanted nothing more than to be straight. So when faced with it, it's harder. We're also exposed to sex and sexuality a lot more so it's a little less 'scary' to us.

I'm not sure why there's so much obsession with sex and sexuality; but my theory is that homosexuality is coupled with that, and is a way to project our own self-loathing. We grow up believing sex is evil and bad and struggle with our own feelings of lust and sexuality; the staggering number of folks addicted to inappropriate contentography (notwithstanding the Ashley Madison numbers) sure tells us that there are a lot of straight people ashamed of at least parts of their own sexuality. I once heard a report from a hotel manager that said that when a local well-known evangelical gathering came to town, inappropriate contentography purchased on paperview skyrockets. So much that they would anticipate that, and give the group further discounts knowing they'd make it back on 'their cut' of the inappropriate content. And there are dozens of studies indicating that households and lifestyles that suppress sexuality have detrimental effects later in life. Some theorize that among the reason for the disproportionate number of Roman Catholic Priests involved in molestation cases may be in fact their total repression of sex and sexuality in a way that isn't healthy or the way God designed them.

Anyway; so you take ALL of this, lump it together, and then you find a nice scapegoat. A man or a woman who is already ashamed of their sexuality but they can't really hide it, like one can hide (for a while at least) an affair or a inappropriate content addiction or an inability to look away from an attractive woman (or man) walking by. A gay person can't really hide their sexuality (without either lying or being celibate) and by and large, they don't want to anymore. They'll simply reject and leave institutions that tell them they need to; like the church. So we put them on a pedestal, make that issue the greatest and most significant, and then that's our scapegoat for sexual impurity. I have my own demons, but HE is gay, and since I'll never be gay, that's not a sexual demon I'll ever have to deal with (in most cases, plenty of cases of gay-bashing male evangelical Pastors being caught in affairs with men. That's a whole other issue they need to deal with!). It's simply, a scapegoat.

That's why in the case of Kim Davis, she was fine issuing divorce paperwork, signing marriage licenses for folks in wedlock, who were married before, or other circumstances where I certainly wouldn't have married them (short term relationships, for example. I have had people who've known each other two weeks want to get married ASAP. Kim Davis would give them a license!). She herself has been divorced and has violated what is also just as clear (if not clearer) in the Bible. Jesus says in Matthew that to get married after being divorced is to commit adultery. But folks can gloss right over that on their way to Romans 1 to say that unequivocally, homosexuality is sin, the Bible says it, that's it? That's because the pitchfork wielding evangelicals have gotten divorced, and have otherwise been human, have experienced God's grace and understanding and don't believe they are committing adultery every moment of every day even though that's what a cursory glance at the English translations of the Bible will reveal to them (with every bit of clarity as the prohibitions against homosexuality, moreso infact.)
Very informative and we'll put. I've never thought of the divorced being remarried committing adultery but you are right. It's there in the bible. So he without sin let him cast the first stone. I guess that's it. Evangelicals are divorced in high numbers that are in line with society's average here in the US. But nobody is proclaiming they are living in sin when they remarry. That's actually pretty deep when you think about it.
When would you anticipate that the UMC will move towards allowing each church to decide? Or if not that some form of allowing it? I hate that it causes so much division just look at the ELCA and the PCUSA. I know many local congregations of both that have left for a little more conservative affiliation. Idk what the answer is but time will tell
 
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RomansFiveEight

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Very informative and we'll put. I've never thought of the divorced being remarried committing adultery but you are right. It's there in the bible. So he without sin let him cast the first stone. I guess that's it. Evangelicals are divorced in high numbers that are in line with society's average here in the US. But nobody is proclaiming they are living in sin when they remarry. That's actually pretty deep when you think about it.
When would you anticipate that the UMC will move towards allowing each church to decide? Or if not that some form of allowing it? I hate that it causes so much division just look at the ELCA and the PCUSA. I know many local congregations of both that have left for a little more conservative affiliation. Idk what the answer is but time will tell

Biblical arguments for or against homosexuality aren't answered because the issue of divorce and remarriage is hairy. However, it does point out an inconsistency. The Bible can't be "clear" on homosexuality if it isn't also "clear" with passages, some from Jesus Christ himself, on divorce. A literal interpretation of the Bible makes it pretty clear a person is not permitted to re-marry, ever, for any reason. Actually, many Roman Catholics do maintain this perspective; and have an "annulment" process. Whereby the church determines the couple never were really married in the first place, thus, they never were divorced. In practice though, time+money=annulment, and they are granted like divorces; and not for the purpose the 'annulment' was created (to recognize that women sold into marriages, forced and arranged marriages, marriages formed for immigration purposes, etc., aren't genuine marriages in the eyes of the church, thus those people were "never married")

It's complicated, very complicated; and I think it'd be a big step for folks to just admit that.

I think the most likely solution is a situation where individual churches, or perhaps individual annual conferences, are permitted to set their own policies. Though admittedly, it doesn't make much "sense" in our polity to let individual churches decide on issues of doctrine. We don't let churches vote on whether to accept women Pastors or whether to baptize infants, even though those are controversial even today in some hardened fundamentalist areas. So it seems odd to let individual churches decide who can marry. It may make more sense to let individual annual conferences set these policies. Although, even that only makes so much sense as, again, we've never given that sort of authority to annual conferences; sort of. During the civil rights movement, a number of deep-south churches were appalled at the concept of black Bishops, and so individual annual conferences and judicial conferences were formed, and some were permitted to block black Bishops, and other Black leaders. It's a tough part of our history, especially as we, historically, have been a denomination in opposition to racial injustice. But, politics are strong! And sometimes it can infect minds so intensely it affects the church.

It's worth noting that Clergy have always had the authority to decide who they'll marry and it's not likely that will change. Meaning Clergy will have the authority to refuse to marry a couple due to their sexual orientation.

Even though I think it's the most likely solution, I do struggle with the idea of individual churches deciding on that policy. It seems complicated, it seems 'weird' to ask a church to 'vote' on issues of Doctrine (Lots of churches have 'wedding policies', like what kind of decorations are allowed; but when it gets into who is allowed to get married, that just seems strange), and also, it seems like it would further the divide and complication. What will happen when a progressive church gets a Pastor who refuses to marry gay couples? What will happen if a Conservative church has a Pastor who marries same-sex couples "off campus"? (As Clergy are memebers of, and credentialed by, the annual conference. Their authority is not derived from the local church and are not 'bound' by the local church. Though Licensed Pastors; as opposed to Ordain elders, do have some local-church limitations, they are still credentialed by the Annual Conference and not subjected to the local church in terms of their Pastoral authority. Both the Church and the Pastor must abide by the Book of Discipline and the Conference, but the church is not mandated to abide by the Pastor nor the Pastor, the church.)
 
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There was a time I thought the Missouri Conference would NEVER affirm SSM under an "Annual Conference" option, but then when all but one of our elected GC delegates openly affirm same-sex marriage (the other one I'm unaware of one way or another, but he has publicly stated he opposes church trials for Pastors accused of officiating SSM's, but plenty of traditionalists simultaneously oppose SSM AND oppose expensive church trials penalizing Pastors who officiate. I also know progressives who support SSM who also support church trials under the principle that, above all, we should uphold the discipline as it stands and work to change it; not disobey it. On principle I'd agree with them, but I don't like the church trials.) I realized that might not be the case. So if given the local annual conference option, that might be something our churches allow. I AM convinced, if given the local CHURCH option, that both of my churches would vote against it AND it would create divisions and animosity.

It's all a mess and I've yet to see a proposed solution or compromise that I don't think will be messy. I don't have any solutions of my own, either.

Having attended Eden Seminary in St. Louis, where many prospective UMC pastors are schooled, it seems in the UMC churches around there that acceptance of SSM is a done deal. Across the river in Illinois, it's a very divisive topic and most UMC folks would just as soon not deal with it.
 
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