Man is god in embryo

Eryk

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If the Creator created things apart from itself, then that Creator cannot be infinite, since some things are separate from it.
Infinity and totality are two different ideas. When we say that God is infinite we mean that there is no limit to his wisdom, power, goodness and so on. It also means that God cannot be limited by anything, because he is independent of external causes and conditions.
 
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ananda

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Infinity and totality are two different ideas. When we say that God is infinite we mean that there is no limit to his wisdom, power, goodness and so on. It also means that God cannot be limited by anything, because he is independent of external causes and conditions.
If your god is separate from his creation, then wouldn't you agree that there is a limit on him, perhaps in the physical realm (even if self-limited)?
 
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Eudaimonist

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If your god is separate from his creation, then wouldn't you agree that there is a limit on him, perhaps in the physical realm (even if self-limited)?

Maybe God is Man in embryo.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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Eryk

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If your god is separate from his creation, then wouldn't you agree that there is a limit on him, perhaps in the physical realm (even if self-limited)?
There is no limit on God in the physical realm. A spiritual being is not spatially extended. Physical rules don't apply.
 
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St_Worm2

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Nothing suggests we were the first creation. Might not even be the only creation. But since time has no meaning in the concept of eternity, I suppose I'd have to answer yes.

Judaism teaches that the "beginning" (Genesis 1) is 'not' the beginning :scratch:
 
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LoAmmi

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Judaism teaches that the "beginning" (Genesis 1) is 'not' the beginning :scratch:

Plenty of Jewish translations would say "When G-d began to create the Heavens and the Earth". The beginning mentioned in Genesis is clearly not the beginning of G-d. It is the beginning of us.
 
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Jane_Doe

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I have a question for people-

Are you trying throughout your life to like Jesus? As you walk as His disciples with His Spirit and help within you, do you come closer to that goal- even in an ever so small way?

In the Millennium, with the fullness of His presence and power, do you come closer to that goal? I can't imagine that you go to heaven still wanting to sin and be un-Christlike.
 
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LoAmmi

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I'm glad you beleive that we were not the first creation because this is what I beleive as well. The difference is that I believe the very essence that each individual is has always existed. God took that essence and placed it in a created spirit body which was a perfect body and which will never degrade or die. After this bonding of what we call inelligence and spirit body we could learn and grow in knowledge. We loved being in the presence of our heavenly parents. But we could only progress so far and is the reason we came to earth. So in short we believe God can offer us eternal life because we have always existed and as we obey his laws and repent we can. Continue to learn and progress until we reach perfection. It won't be in this life but what a blessing it is to be able to honor God and to increase his glory

Jewish tradition holds that all Jewish souls were present at Sinai and all agreed to the Torah. So, us existing prior to having a body is not something foreign. However, the idea that we can become like Him is not part of it. We simply cannot.
 
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St_Worm2

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Plenty of Jewish translations would say "When G-d began to create the Heavens and the Earth". The beginning mentioned in Genesis is clearly not the beginning of G-d. It is the beginning of us.

Absolutely agreed! "God IS" before space/time existed because He created all of it. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant. There is no other "Creation" than the one mentioned in Genesis, yes?
 
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LoAmmi

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Absolutely agreed! God IS before space/time existed because He created all of it. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant. There is no other "Creation" than the one mentioned in Genesis, yes?

How would we know if there were? We're not told one way or the other as far as I'm aware. He isn't limited so there could be multiple Universes.
 
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St_Worm2

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Jewish tradition holds that all Jewish souls were present at Sinai and all agreed to the Torah. So, us existing prior to having a body is not something foreign. However, the idea that we can become like Him is not part of it. We simply cannot.

Wow, that is something that was clearly not revealed in the Law and the Prophets. Where does your Tradition speak of this?
 
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LoAmmi

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Wow, that is something that was clearly not revealed in the Law and the Prophets. Where does your Tradition speak of this?

It's just part of tradition. I know it's in the Talmud. It isn't something you have to believe or anything like that.
 
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Robban

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Perhaps your understanding of eternity and our existance is not at its full potential. We have always been. This has to be the case or God could not offer us eternal life.

He breathed of Himself into man.
Gen 2:7,
And the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the soul of Life,
and man became a living soul.

So if He always was, then it follows that what He breathed into man always was too.

When He takes back the breath of Life, then the market place is closed.
He gives and takes as He pleases,

And of course any dreams of becoming a god, go down the chute.
 
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ViaCrucis

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So I take it that you believe that before created he was alone in a void. Black nothing floating around in empty space for eons of what ever he counted as time.

To speak of "before creation" is intrinsically problematic because terms like "before" and "after" are rooted in time. Before everything was there was no space or time and there are no adequate terms to speak about it.

Though, of course, Christian theology instead has typically spoken instead of the idea of divine transcendence: that God is beyond all things. God is fundamentally and radically other than everything else; God is neither bound by the spacial constraints of the universe--even the spacial constraints of a possibly infinite universe or even an infinite multiverse--nor the temporal constraints of the universe. God is wholly other, and hence historic Christian theology has asserted that the Divine Essence is unknowable, ineffable, incomprehensible: we cannot understand, know, comprehend, or effectively speak of the Divine Essence itself because it is so entirely other. We have instead attempted to speak not cataphatically of God's nature, but apophatically; that is rather than saying what God is, saying what God is not. Because what God is we cannot say and cannot know; indeed even to say "God is God" misses things because our language is abysmal and tiny. We can only know God through His acts, or in Greek, energeia, His energies. We know of God because of revelation, and by revelation God makes Himself known most importantly and chiefly the revelation of Himself in the Incarnation; for as we read in the Gospel of John "no one has ever seen God, but the only-begotten Son/God, who is at the Father's side, has made Him known." (John 1:18)

So in answer to your question there was never a time "before creation" but rather God, in the utmost sense, is. There was no void, or empty space, or eons; there is only God--but the creative act births into being a that which is not God; and this that which is not God has time and space and the concepts of time and space only make sense in this universe of space-time. And most importantly, no God has never been alone; because God being Holy Trinity is the inter-penetrating loving and self-giving of One and Other; namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father has never been alone, because from all eternity He has a Son, begotten of His own ineffable essence, who is God of God and God with God; but one and the same God. There is no emptiness or loneliness; there is only the immense love that flows outwardly from God to God, never selfishly, but always outwardly always kenotically*.

-CryptoLutheran

*from the Greek word kenosis meaning "to empty" or "to pour out"; it is the word used by St. Paul in Philippians 2 when he writes that Christ "emptied Himself"; used here to speak of the outpouring of God's Self in the perichoretic relationship of the Trinity, that of the Father pouring Himself into the Son, and so on and so forth.
 
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Robban

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He breathed of Himself into man.
Gen 2:7,
And the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the soul of Life,
and man became a living soul.

So if He always was, then it follows that what He breathed into man always was too.

When He takes back the breath of Life, then the market place is closed.
He gives and takes as He pleases,

And of course any dreams of becoming a god, go down the chute.

But, that is not the end,

Psalms 104:29,
When You conceal Your countenance,
they are terrified;
When You take back their spirit they will return to their dust.

104:30,
When You will send forth Your spirit
they will be created anew,
and You will renew the face of the earth.

And this is where the heavenly orchester plays,
Tchaikovsky,s piano concerto No 1, Op 23
well worn but never wears out.
 
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fatboys

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Jewish tradition holds that all Jewish souls were present at Sinai and all agreed to the Torah. So, us existing prior to having a body is not something foreign. However, the idea that we can become like Him is not part of it. We simply cannot.
Why
 
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fatboys

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He breathed of Himself into man.
Gen 2:7,
And the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the soul of Life,
and man became a living soul.

So if He always was, then it follows that what He breathed into man always was too.

When He takes back the breath of Life, then the market place is closed.
He gives and takes as He pleases,

And of course any dreams of becoming a god, go down the chute.
Maybe God breathed air into his lungs
 
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