Pre-Mil Only More evidence of who the Beast is!

[Ronald]

Revived Roman Empire? No! Islam is the Beast. It's part iron (Iran) and part clay (ISIS). We can easily add up ten nations with seven leaders as well. One of the seven becomes the eighth, that antichrist, who is now active. It's either the Ayatollah or the leader of ISIS, they are both antichrists -- or does anyone think they aren't? Iron and clay does not mix well but their overall purpose is the same, to destroy Israel and Christianity and to convert the entire world to Islam by force or else suffer the consequences: rape, murder, exile, etc. The signature of the Beast is given in Rev. 20:4 > Beheading. "And I saw thrones, and they that sat on them and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." Millions of Christians have suffered and died in this way and are now in a Great Tribulation. One third of the world is on fire and it is about to escalate.
http://shoebat.com/2015/08/21/arche...ing-allah-to-lucifer-and-the-harlot-religion/

 

[Douggg]

Revived Roman Empire? No! Islam is the Beast. It's part iron (Iran) and part clay (ISIS). We can easily add up ten nations with seven leaders as well. One of the seven becomes the eighth, that antichrist, who is now active. It's either the Ayatollah or the leader of ISIS, they are both antichrists -- or does anyone think they aren't? Iron and clay does not mix well but their overall purpose is the same, to destroy Israel and Christianity and to convert the entire world to Islam by force or else suffer the consequences: rape, murder, exile, etc. The signature of the Beast is given in Rev. 20:4 > Beheading. "And I saw thrones, and they that sat on them and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." Millions of Christians have suffered and died in this way and are now in a Great Tribulation. One third of the world is on fire and it is about to escalate.
http://shoebat.com/2015/08/21/arche...ing-allah-to-lucifer-and-the-harlot-religion/

Ronald, please show that Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 38/39 is not the collection of Islam nations in the middleeast who want to destroy Israel.

 

[Ronald]

Ronald, please show that Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 38/39 is not the collection of Islam nations in the middleeast who want to destroy Israel.

Please look at the reality of things that are happening right now!
I have identified the Beast in other threads as Islam: "Rosh, Meshech and Tubal" in Ezek.38:2 are northern territories of Russia and what now are Islamic nations.
Ezek.38:5 "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them." HELLO, these are Islamic nations
Ezek. 38:6 "Gomer and all tis troops, the house of Togarmah ..." This is the area of present day Turkey.
Add to those Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Assyria (Syria) and you have your ten nations composed of the BEAST.

Come on, you ask me to point these out to you? Are you blind, they are so obvious?

 

[Douggg]

Please look at the reality of things that are happening right now!
I have identified the Beast in other threads as Islam: "Rosh, Meshech and Tubal" in Ezek.38:2 are northern territories of Russia and what now are Islamic nations.
Ezek.38:5 "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them." HELLO, these are Islamic nations
Ezek. 38:6 "Gomer and all tis troops, the house of Togarmah ..." This is the area of present day Turkey.
Add to those Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Assyria (Syria) and you have your ten nations composed of the BEAST.

Come on, you ask me to point these out to you? Are you blind, they are so obvious?

I ask you to show that they are NOT Gog/Magog. You are showing that they are - which means the muslims nations and Islam cannot be the beast of Revelation.

The beast of Revelation rules the world for 42 months before Jesus returns. Following Gog/Magog, the defeat of the Muslims/Islam there are 7 years, in the text of Ezekiel 39. Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is another battle - 7 years after the Muslims/Islam is destroyed.

So Muslims/Islam cannot be the beast - because Muslims/Islam won't even been around during that 7 years. And certainly not the second half of that 42 months, when the beast is ruling the world.

We are about there regarding Gog/Magog. So I don't have any disagreement with you on that.

I think the impasse in our two views will be resolved when the EU materializes into the ten king (leader) federalized form of government. If that happens we should be on the same page going forward.

 

[Ronald]

I ask you to show that they are NOT Gog/Magog. You are showing that they are - which means the muslims nations and Islam cannot be the beast of Revelation.

The beast of Revelation rules the world for 42 months before Jesus returns. Following Gog/Magog, the defeat of the Muslims/Islam there are 7 years, in the text of Ezekiel 39. Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20 is another battle - 7 years after the Muslims/Islam is destroyed.

So Muslims/Islam cannot be the beast - because Muslims/Islam won't even been around during that 7 years. And certainly not the second half of that 42 months, when the beast is ruling the world.

We are about there regarding Gog/Magog. So I don't have any disagreement with you on that.

I think the impasse in our two views will be resolved when the EU materializes into the ten king (leader) federalized form of government. If that happens we should be on the same page going forward.

The EU is weak and not united in anyway. They are all sorry, especially Germany, for having gotten into the euro currency and having to bail out Greece. Italy and Spain are hurting as well. So who do think will be the antichrist, Prince Charles? Or maybe Obama? He's just a pawn in this whole scenario and clueless. Or course if a particular leader suffers a deadly blow and is resuscitated 3 days later and possessed by Satan, then we would surely know who he is. Maybe it's Hillary, she becomes president and on inauguration day she starts frothing from the mouth, her head spins and starts puking greenish vomit ...?
How do know that we are not in the Great Tribulation right now? If you were a Christian in any of those Islamic countries, where millions have been murdered, exiled and raped, you would think we are in it.
You are fixated on a "seven-year trib." because you are an adherent to the 70th week of Daniel gap theory. Your theory requires that a Temple be built as well and the rapture to happen first and then this Gog/Magog war at the end. Or if you are a Post Tribber, then you'll be taken through all of it.
What if your whole view is off; specifically your timeline and neat chronological series of events as well?

At this time, the Beast is active. In the middle of the tribulation, the Beast will be active and towards the end, the Beast will be active. There is no transformation from one Beast into another Beast, taking on a different form or nations and characters. No, this Beast does not change, after a certain point in time, humans just become aware of who the Antichrist is.
But you are entitled to adhere to one of the many eschatological views -- it will all pan out in the end.

 

[Douggg]

The EU is weak and not united in anyway. They are all sorry, especially Germany, for having gotten into the euro currency and having to bail out Greece. Italy and Spain are hurting as well. So who do think will be the antichrist, Prince Charles? Or maybe Obama? He's just a pawn in this whole scenario and clueless. Or course if a particular leader suffers a deadly blow and is resuscitated 3 days later and possessed by Satan, then we would surely know who he is. Maybe it's Hillary, she becomes president and on inauguration day she starts frothing from the mouth, her head spins and starts puking greenish vomit ...?

What does this say?

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron (Germany, France, England), and part of clay (greece, Italy, spain), so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken (greece right now).

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another (cultural differences in the EU), even as iron is not mixed with clay.

I don't know who the little horn is right now. It's not going to be Obama nor Prince Charles. Once the EU materializes into a federalized form of government with ten leaders - then it will be possible to pin the tail on the Antichrist, when that person arises to power.

 

[zippy2]

Revived Roman Empire? No! Islam is the Beast. It's part iron (Iran) and part clay (ISIS). We can easily add up ten nations with seven leaders as well. One of the seven becomes the eighth, that antichrist, who is now active. It's either the Ayatollah or the leader of ISIS, they are both antichrists -- or does anyone think they aren't? Iron and clay does not mix well but their overall purpose is the same, to destroy Israel and Christianity and to convert the entire world to Islam by force or else suffer the consequences: rape, murder, exile, etc. The signature of the Beast is given in Rev. 20:4 > Beheading. "And I saw thrones, and they that sat on them and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." Millions of Christians have suffered and died in this way and are now in a Great Tribulation. One third of the world is on fire and it is about to escalate.
http://shoebat.com/2015/08/21/arche...ing-allah-to-lucifer-and-the-harlot-religion/

Ronald,

I think the Beast is Islam also. But I don't think the worst has even begun yet. It is going to be so bad...there will be Millions of beheadings...millions all over the world including here in US. You are absolutely right about the signature of the Beast. Lord help us....and He will.

 

[Ronald]

Ronald,

I think the Beast is Islam also. But I don't think the worst has even begun yet. It is going to be so bad...there will be Millions of beheadings...millions all over the world including here in US. You are absolutely right about the signature of the Beast. Lord help us....and He will.

The persecution by Islamic terrorists are minor compared to the judgment of God, that will wipe out over half the planet.

 

[Ronald]

What does this say?

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron (Germany, France, England), and part of clay (greece, Italy, spain), so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken (greece right now).

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another (cultural differences in the EU), even as iron is not mixed with clay.

I don't know who the little horn is right now. It's not going to be Obama nor Prince Charles. Once the EU materializes into a federalized form of government with ten leaders - then it will be possible to pin the tail on the Antichrist, when that person arises to power.

These passages clearly can represent Islamic countries.
Iron = Iran
Clay = ISIS

 

[Douggg]

These passages clearly can represent Islamic countries.
Iron = Iran
Clay = ISIS

Iran and ISIS is going to control the world for 42 months? They don't have the military resources nor numbers to do that.
And they don't have the political potential either.

 

[Ronald]

Iran and ISIS is going to control the world for 42 months? They don't have the military resources nor numbers to do that.
And they don't have the political potential either.

Hold your horses! Remember much of what is going on in Revelation pertains to putting Israel through the fire. Jerusalem is the stumbling block that many nations trip over. All nations come against Israel. That part of the world is currently impacted by the Beast (Islam). Notice that in the events within the seven trumpets, 1/3 of the earth is on fire, 1/3 of the sea vessels are sunk, 1/3 of the fish die, 1/3 of the people are killed, etc. So, this part (1/3) of the world is impacted greatly! Millions of Christians are being persecuted and running for their lives and Israel is right in the middle of it. When the trumpets start to blow and WWIII ignites (primarily involving Israel and many nations), the prophetic events will be evident. Now, when Christians/Holy Spirit are taken out of the way, then you will see an Islamic forces in cells that are spread out and dominate. How? The antichrist will be possessed by Satan and have super natural powers that no one will be able to go against. Besides, who is left in our military after believers have gone? Whose left after half the people in our country are gone? Chaos, looting, crime to the hilt becomes out of control. If this happened during Obama's administration, I could see him bowing down to this leader, kissing his ring and ordering the countries allegiance to him! Imagine, all you'll have left in the world are secular/ godless men in charge and in fear of all that is going on. Struggling to find order, they submit to this leader, begin to believe that he is god, taking the mark of the Beast!
So, during the time that the entire world suffers the seven bowls of wrath, just prior to the end of the GT, Jesus destroys all, in one hour ... billions. That would be the final battle of insanity, the world against God!

 

[Douggg]

Hold your horses! Remember much of what is going on in Revelation pertains to putting Israel through the fire. Jerusalem is the stumbling block that many nations trip over. All nations come against Israel. That part of the world is currently impacted by the Beast (Islam). Notice that in the events within the seven trumpets, 1/3 of the earth is on fire, 1/3 of the sea vessels are sunk, 1/3 of the fish die, 1/3 of the people are killed, etc. So, this part (1/3) of the world is impacted greatly! Millions of Christians are being persecuted and running for their lives and Israel is right in the middle of it. When the trumpets start to blow and WWIII ignites (primarily involving Israel and many nations), the prophetic events will be evident. Now, when Christians/Holy Spirit are taken out of the way, then you will see an Islamic forces in cells that are spread out and dominate. How? The antichrist will be possessed by Satan and have super natural powers that no one will be able to go against. Besides, who is left in our military after believers have gone? Whose left after half the people in our country are gone? Chaos, looting, crime to the hilt becomes out of control. If this happened during Obama's administration, I could see him bowing down to this leader, kissing his ring and ordering the countries allegiance to him! Imagine, all you'll have left in the world are secular/ godless men in charge and in fear of all that is going on. Struggling to find order, they submit to this leader, begin to believe that he is god, taking the mark of the Beast!
So, during the time that the entire world suffers the seven bowls of wrath, just prior to the end of the GT, Jesus destroys all, in one hour ... billions. That would be the final battle of insanity, the world against God!

Ronald, it would not be Obama because he doesn't have enough time left in office, to get to the last 42 months when all of those judgments will be falling on the earth.

Even with the rapture, Europe, the US, Canada, South America, China, have more strength than Islamic countries would ever have. A muslim beast individual could never attain power over the non-muslim nations of the world.

The financial system of the world, the power is in the hands of non-muslims, such that, the 666 buy/sell requirement could not be a function of a muslim leader over ten muslim nations. And even so, it not just over a regional part of the world; but the whole world.

Take a look at what is going on with Greece, the take over of that country. Not a shot was fired. It shows the clout of the world banking brokers; none of those are muslim.

I believe the person who will become the Antichrist, and then later the beast, is going to be keenly aware of how to control nations and people through money. He will be a Jew, who will use that knowledge, based on prior experienced being gained right now.

The love of money is the root of all evil, so it is said. In Ezekiel 28, regarding the person who will claim to be God....

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

 

[n2thelight]

The first beast is a political system,ie,the one world government,the 2nd beast is satan himself

 

[Ronald]

Ronald, it would not be Obama because he doesn't have enough time left in office, to get to the last 42 months when all of those judgments will be falling on the earth.

Even with the rapture, Europe, the US, Canada, South America, China, have more strength than Islamic countries would ever have. A muslim beast individual could never attain power over the non-muslim nations of the world.

The financial system of the world, the power is in the hands of non-muslims, such that, the 666 buy/sell requirement could not be a function of a muslim leader over ten muslim nations. And even so, it not just over a regional part of the world; but the whole world.

Take a look at what is going on with Greece, the take over of that country. Not a shot was fired. It shows the clout of the world banking brokers; none of those are muslim.

I believe the person who will become the Antichrist, and then later the beast, is going to be keenly aware of how to control nations and people through money. He will be a Jew, who will use that knowledge, based on prior experienced being gained right now.

The love of money is the root of all evil, so it is said. In Ezekiel 28, regarding the person who will claim to be God....

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

OK, we'll see soon won't we.

 

[Echolipse]

Ronald, it would not be Obama because he doesn't have enough time left in office, to get to the last 42 months when all of those judgments will be falling on the earth.

Even with the rapture, Europe, the US, Canada, South America, China, have more strength than Islamic countries would ever have. A muslim beast individual could never attain power over the non-muslim nations of the world.

The financial system of the world, the power is in the hands of non-muslims, such that, the 666 buy/sell requirement could not be a function of a muslim leader over ten muslim nations. And even so, it not just over a regional part of the world; but the whole world.

Take a look at what is going on with Greece, the take over of that country. Not a shot was fired. It shows the clout of the world banking brokers; none of those are muslim.

I believe the person who will become the Antichrist, and then later the beast, is going to be keenly aware of how to control nations and people through money. He will be a Jew, who will use that knowledge, based on prior experienced being gained right now.

The love of money is the root of all evil, so it is said. In Ezekiel 28, regarding the person who will claim to be God....

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:

5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

Doug, I agree with you completely. Ever since ISIS showed up and nearly all Eschatologists have all declared ISIS the beast, I've been very hesitant on declaring it myself. They definitely are effected by the antichrist spirit, which of course Islam in itself is a product of the antichrist spirit, but the Beast of Revelation? I can't say for sure. Other than the fact that the AC will be and must be a Jew, yall did bring up a good point on the EU potentially materializing into the 10-king government. My question is (and this is rhetorical), how long will the 10-king government of the EU be around for before the AC is brought up? So many people, don't understand that nothing in this world is instant. Even if things "appear" instant to us, there is always some event - no matter how small or quick - that had to occur before the final result happens. For pre-trib people, they think the rapture will occur right before the tribulation and it'll just "instantly" happen, for post trib (or in my case, post-wrath) they think the AC will sudden and instantly appear right after the 10-king government arises. We must remember though, that transition, could take a year or more! Instant isn't magic!

 

[zippy2]

Doug, I agree with you completely. Ever since ISIS showed up and nearly all Eschatologists have all declared ISIS the beast, I've been very hesitant on declaring it myself. They definitely are effected by the antichrist spirit, which of course Islam in itself is a product of the antichrist spirit, but the Beast of Revelation? I can't say for sure. Other than the fact that the AC will be and must be a Jew, yall did bring up a good point on the EU potentially materializing into the 10-king government. My question is (and this is rhetorical), how long will the 10-king government of the EU be around for before the AC is brought up? So many people, don't understand that nothing in this world is instant. Even if things "appear" instant to us, there is always some event - no matter how small or quick - that had to occur before the final result happens. For pre-trib people, they think the rapture will occur right before the tribulation and it'll just "instantly" happen, for post trib (or in my case, post-wrath) they think the AC will sudden and instantly appear right after the 10-king government arises. We must remember though, that transition, could take a year or more! Instant isn't magic!

Hi Echo,

Why do you believe the AC will be Jewish? Just wondering. Thanks.

 

[Echolipse]

Hi Echo,

Why do you believe the AC will be Jewish? Just wondering. Thanks.

The main reason is is that Jews won't accept anyone as their Messiah unless the person is Jewish. It's like saying Americans are expecting a promised savior that rises out of America, but then they accept some random dude from Russia as their Messiah.

 

[zippy2]

The main reason is is that Jews won't accept anyone as their Messiah unless the person is Jewish. It's like saying Americans are expecting a promised savior that rises out of America, but then they accept some random dude from Russia as their Messiah.

Ok, that makes sense I guess. But maybe he just pretends to be Jewish? And that's the big lie? The one that even the Elect would believe if that were possible? See what I mean?

The thing is, the AC makes a deal with 'the many'. Who are 'the many'?

 

[Echolipse]

Ok, that makes sense I guess. But maybe he just pretends to be Jewish? And that's the big lie? The one that even the Elect would believe if that were possible? See what I mean?

The thing is, the AC makes a deal with 'the many'. Who are 'the many'?

Yes, I've considered that before, especially with how well this guy is supposed to be charismatically. Especially with how Obama (yes I'm going there) was able to fool (most of) the nation with his family history and where he came from, and no, Obama is NOT the AC. Here's the issue with the thought that even the Elect would believe the lie, per the bible, we're ever supposed to know that he's the AC, while the rest of the world believes he's Christ. Just like you're leaning toward, wonder what other stuff he'll mislead the world with.

And regards to "the many", that we can't be sure. We can speculate that it's the world. But we won't know until he comes into the picture and we see it all happen. Just like everything going on right now, all we can do is theorize (which is what we Eschatologists are good at, haha). No matter how much each of us believes our stands and theology is correct, we cannot know for sure until it occurs in front of us. Something tells me that once it all begins, then we'll just "know".

 

[zippy2]

Yes, I've considered that before, especially with how well this guy is supposed to be charismatically. Especially with how Obama (yes I'm going there) was able to fool (most of) the nation with his family history and where he came from, and no, Obama is NOT the AC. Here's the issue with the thought that even the Elect would believe the lie, per the bible, we're ever supposed to know that he's the AC, while the rest of the world believes he's Christ. Just like you're leaning toward, wonder what other stuff he'll mislead the world with.

And regards to "the many", that we can't be sure. We can speculate that it's the world. But we won't know until he comes into the picture and we see it all happen. Just like everything going on right now, all we can do is theorize (which is what we Eschatologists are good at, haha). No matter how much each of us believes our stands and theology is correct, we cannot know for sure until it occurs in front of us. Something tells me that once it all begins, then we'll just "know".

I agree. But no I wasn't leaning toward Obama. We focus on Obama cause he's our pres. There are others who signed this DEAL. I think things are going to be a whole lot worse when the Trib starts..it's just going in that direction now really really fast. But just to theorize (haha) what if this Iranian deal is THE DEAL. Everyone in the WORLD knows about this DEAL. And what if the 'many' are the many nations who sign it? That would make an Islamist the AC. Am I just crazy? ( I mean beyond normally) LOL Thanks, Zippy2