[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] A question for those who.....

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anonymous person

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This is a question for all of those who believe that meaning and purpose are determined by each human being and not some cosmic tyrant/dictator/gods/God/transcendent being etc. etc. and who at the same time want to spend a great deal of time questioning and arguing with Christians about their beliefs.

My question is:

Why is it that you think you can determine what is meaningful and purposeful in your life, but when it comes to the Christian, you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus and His disciples if they find meaning and purpose in doing so?
 
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Davian

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This is a question for all of those who believe that meaning and purpose are determined by each human being and not some cosmic tyrant/dictator/gods/God/transcendent being etc. etc. and who at the same time want to spend a great deal of time questioning and arguing with Christians about their beliefs.
I can't say that I really wanted to question and argue with religionists about their beliefs until after I had children, and saw how they had or wanted access to our government, the school system, and my children for the purposes of promoting their many, varied, and often contradictory beliefs.
My question is:

Why is it that you think you can determine what is meaningful and purposeful in your life, but when it comes to the Christian, you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus and His disciples if they find meaning and purpose in doing so?
I am not sure what you mean by "denying" here. Do you mean opposing the promotion of particular religions as fact within the government and school systems of my country? Supporting the restricting of the science classes to scientific subjects, and leave religion out? Learning how to stand up to family and friends that want to impose their unfalsifiable, untestable, and unevidenced religious ideas on my children?

Can you be more clear about this oppression that you face?
 
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essentialsaltes

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Why is it that you think you can determine what is meaningful and purposeful in your life, but when it comes to the Christian, you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus and His disciples if they find meaning and purpose in doing so?

I'm sorry, where have I done that? Have I said that churches cannot be built? Have I said that people cannot worship whatever gods they choose? I haven't. Do you want to give your cloak to somebody? Knock yourself out; I'm not stopping you.
 
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Chany

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This is a question for all of those who believe that meaning and purpose are determined by each human being and not some cosmic tyrant/dictator/gods/God/transcendent being etc. etc. and who at the same time want to spend a great deal of time questioning and arguing with Christians about their beliefs.

My question is:

Why is it that you think you can determine what is meaningful and purposeful in your life, but when it comes to the Christian, you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus and His disciples if they find meaning and purpose in doing so?

Rational agents as the source of value judgments does not automatically render them meaningless or without objective merit. If there is a course of action, given a set of circumstances, that all rational agents would endorse, then the value judgement is, in some sense, objective. I consider my value judgments to be rational, and hope I can work out some type of objective value judgments with other rational agents. In other words, what I consider proper value judgments for myself I consider proper, in some way, for other rational agents.

I am not denying you the right to do anything. If you want to choose a course in life that, you can. However, I will ask questions and debate you on your beliefs because:

1) I feel comfortable on the site, which is my first internet forum,

2) I enjoy arguing, debating, and discussing philosophical topics, including the philosophy of religion,

and

3) I take issue with a)Christian* value judgments and b) Christian* metaphysics and want to argue against them.

* I acknowledge that this is a rather broad range of beliefs and that I might take more issue with particular Christian approaches.
 
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GrimKingGrim

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I like how a good chunk of this forum pretty much questions atheists. Makes me feel right at home

Why is it that you think you can determine what is meaningful and purposeful in your life, but when it comes to the Christian, you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus and His disciples if they find meaning and purpose in doing so?

Deny? Eh, I wouldn't say that's accurate. If we wanted to deny you that right there's ways to do that if ya get ma drift. (plus if that was our goal we're doing a poor job at it. People are just doing it themselves these days)

What we do is simply question your beliefs and let you know that you as an individual have full control over of your own life. And that your opinion matters to you and [insert spiel]

It's like a trade-off: You tell us how much Jesus loves us and how we should "turn back before it's too late" and we'll tell you that that's bogus and that we control our lives just as much as you control yours.
 
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asherahSamaria

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This is a question for all of those who believe that meaning and purpose are determined by each human being and not some cosmic tyrant/dictator/gods/God/transcendent being etc. etc. and who at the same time want to spend a great deal of time questioning and arguing with Christians about their beliefs.

My question is:

Why is it that you think you can determine what is meaningful and purposeful in your life, but when it comes to the Christian, you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus and His disciples if they find meaning and purpose in doing so?


"you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus" - Strawman alert!
 
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Eudaimonist

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Why is it that you think you can determine what is meaningful and purposeful in your life

Actually, I think that people can discern what is meaningful and purposeful to them. I don't think that it is a pure invention.

but when it comes to the Christian, you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus and His disciples if they find meaning and purpose in doing so?

What makes you think that I would want to deny Christians the right to be Christians? I'm in favor of freedom of religion.

Do you think that discussing religion with you somehow prevents you from leading a Christian lifestyle? How is that accomplished?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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GrowingSmaller

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Meaning and purpose are the same thing: rational attraction to being. IMO this is the eidos of the "meaning of life".


Eidetic reduction:
... in phenomenology, a method by which the philosopher moves from the consciousness of individual and concrete objects to the transempirical realm of pure essences and thus achieves an intuition of the eidos (Greek: “shape”) of a thing—i.e., of what it is in its invariable and essential structure, apart from all that is contingent or accidental to it. The eidos is thus the principle or necessary structure of the thing. Being a science of essences, phenomenology finds this reduction important for its methodology.
http://www.britannica.com/topic/eidetic-reduction

So what about Christianity
For a Christian this actually means means a Christian lifestyle. Rationality is pursuit of interests according to the available information - so if thats your world concept than act on it. Whether its objectively efficient, or ultimately clouded by superstition, we may never know with total certainty inany case.

So Christianity is the only way then?
For an artist, life-meaning may be in part through artistic expression. For a tired person, in having a sleep. We all have to breathe and eat, even yogis, that's part of the equation too.

So is this an a priori truth about human beings?

Yes.

So we all have rationality, in some way, and are also attracted to being in some way - either as living things sustaining their life biologically, or as spiritual beings engaged in metaphysics etc and are at work on of existence and its causes - simply because we are alive and because we survive.


After all, if theres a meaning to life, it would be odd to say "youre alive, but you dont really embody life meaning in any particular way".

We all live, were not dead, so we ALL have life meaning either consciously (philosophically aware in a direct sense) or in a non conscious fashion... just because we live and are (i.e. posess being).
 
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My question is:

Why is it that you think you can determine what is meaningful and purposeful in your life, but when it comes to the Christian, you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus and His disciples if they find meaning and purpose in doing so?
I don't.
 
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paulm50

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This is a question for all of those who believe that meaning and purpose are determined by each human being and not some cosmic tyrant/dictator/gods/God/transcendent being etc. etc. and who at the same time want to spend a great deal of time questioning and arguing with Christians about their beliefs.

My question is:

Why is it that you think you can determine what is meaningful and purposeful in your life, but when it comes to the Christian, you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus and His disciples if they find meaning and purpose in doing so?
We have no problem with you following what you believe. What we do is stop you from converting others, denying the truth, stopping others from practicing their beliefs.
 
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anonymous person

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We have no problem with you following what you believe. What we do is stop you from converting others, denying the truth, stopping others from practicing their beliefs.

Who are you to stop someone from doing what is meaningful to them?

You don't sound very tolerant.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Who are you to stop someone from doing what is meaningful to them?

You don't sound very tolerant.

Because others have rights and freedoms to.

What if I would decide that it is "meaningful" to me to smack you upside the head?
 
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Davian

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Who are you to stop someone from doing what is meaningful to them?

You don't sound very tolerant.
Indeed. Those "old atheists" were much more... tolerant.


Can you tell us more about this oppression that you face?
 
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brinny

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I like how a good chunk of this forum pretty much questions atheists. Makes me feel right at home



Deny? Eh, I wouldn't say that's accurate. If we wanted to deny you that right there's ways to do that if ya get ma drift. (plus if that was our goal we're doing a poor job at it. People are just doing it themselves these days)

What we do is simply question your beliefs and let you know that you as an individual have full control over of your own life. And that your opinion matters to you and [insert spiel]

It's like a trade-off: You tell us how much Jesus loves us and how we should "turn back before it's too late" and we'll tell you that that's bogus and that we control our lives just as much as you control yours.

Do you mind if i question your beliefs?

Thank you kindly.
 
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brinny

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Because others have rights and freedoms to.

What if I would decide that it is "meaningful" to me to smack you upside the head?

What if i disagreed?

Thank you kindly.
 
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