Is Sola Scriptura a Heresy?

[Open Heart]

Oh.
Anothers words, [C]atholics are [c]atholic? Then I agree. Protestants and Orthodoxs are also [c]atholic, at least according to the creed CF goes by:

I agree that the EOs are catholic (small c) but disagree with you that Protestants are. To be catholic the Church must have valid holy orders and by extension valid sacraments. I realize some Protestant churches make that claim -- we'll simply have to disagree.

 

[Open Heart]

Yes. And there were 100 ' of letters written by the early Church Fathers that guided the Church. Clement wrote to the Church in Corinth and they read it at their Liturgy. Ignatius of Antioch guided the Church through letters. And all of these letters didn't make the cut. Point is..,the Holy Spirit guided the Church and grew the Church exponentially without a book.

spot on

 

[MikeEnders]

Yes. And there were 100 ' of letters written by the early Church Fathers that guided the Church. Clement wrote to the Church in Corinth and they read it at their Liturgy. Ignatius of Antioch guided the Church through letters. And all of these letters didn't make the cut. Point is..,the Holy Spirit guided the Church and grew the Church exponentially without a book.

What in the world are you talking about? Think!! letters are what we have in the Bible now so citing them proves your point wrong. The holy Spirit guided the church then precisely by written documents assembled and put into our book. Furthermore the early church fathers often quoted the same books of the bible in their teaching so in more than one way it rebukes your claim. The letters in large part were about the book.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I agree that the EOs are catholic (small c) but disagree with you that Protestants are.
To be catholic the Church must have valid holy orders and by extension valid sacraments. I realize some Protestant churches make that claim -- we'll simply have to disagree.

Holy Orders?
Where are those mentioned in the Bible? Thks

 

[parousia70]

The Church of scripture is one united ecclesial body (Eph 4:3-4; Eph 4:13-16; Jn 17:21; Mt 16:18) without schismatic divisions (1 Cor 12:25; Rom 16:17; 1 Cor 1:10; Jude 1:19; Gal 5:20; 3 John 1:9-10), with one teaching for all the churches (Acts 15:22-23,25,28/Acts 16:4-5; 1 Tim 1:3; 1 Cor 1:10; Eph 4:5; Jude 1:3), and one bishopric authorized of and by the apostles (Titus 1:5) by the laying on of hands in ordination (Heb 6:2; 2 Tim 1:6; 1 Tim 4:14; Titus 1:5), sharing ministers back and forth among all churches (1 Cor 16:3; Rom 16:1,3,9,21,23; Phil 2:19,25; Titus 3:12), receiving one another in fellowship and in greeting (Rom 15:5-7; Rom 16:16; Col 4:10,12,14; 3 John 1:9-10), where excommunication removes individuals from this one body (Matt 18:17; 1 Corinthians 5:1-2,4-5), and which existed from St. Peter and the apostles unto today (Matt 16:18-19; Eph 3:21).

Protestantism, in Contrast, is an endless schism of divisions with multiple different teachings and authority structures, with no effective means of excommunication and no traceable Apostolic Lineage.

 

[Open Heart]

Sigh........the word Catholic meant and means universal. It not slang for Roman catholic or vice a versa

catholic with a small c means universal. Catholic with a Capital C refers to the Catholic Church based in Rome.

 

[parousia70]

The holy Spirit guided the church then precisely by written documents assembled and put into our book.

Who did you just say assembled the Books into the Canon of Scripture? and How did they know which writings to include and which to reject?

The Church? Guided by the Holy Spirit? That's your position?

 

[Berean777]

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[daydreamergurl15]

Yes. And there were 100 ' of letters written by the early Church Fathers that guided the Church. Clement wrote to the Church in Corinth and they read it at their Liturgy. Ignatius of Antioch guided the Church through letters. And all of these letters didn't make the cut. Point is..,the Holy Spirit guided the Church and grew the Church exponentially without a book.

The Holy Spirit is still guiding and growing the church. The book which is God-breathed is through the Holy Spirit, they do not contradict each other. My point is, while we're so quick to throw these letters away, these letters guided the first century church as well. Paul would not ask them to circulate it, if it wasn't important. Peter would not have to explain to them that Paul's epistles are hard to understand, if the letters were not important. We HAVE the word, to treat it as a secondary source is nonsense.

 

[Berean777]

...

 

[Open Heart]

Sigh........the word Catholic meant and means universal. It not slang for Roman catholic or vice a versa

You are mistaken. Go to the Vatican Website and you will see that the proper name for the Church is simply the Catholic Church. The website never mentions a Roman Catholic church. I realize that many Catholics use the slang -- you'll even find it on Churches. But it's not official.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Who did you just say assembled the Books into the Canon of Scripture? and How did they know which writings to include and which to reject?

The Church? Guided by the Holy Spirit? That's your position?

"The Church".

We are Christ's Piece de Resistance against falsehood and apostasy perpetrated by the black dragon of apostasy at work in this day and age.

Dragons are kewl. They don't call me a dragonslayer for nothing ehehe

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/there-be-dragons.7557261/page-3#post-58769617

 

[daydreamergurl15]

When we are adopted into sonship and daughtership it is to be joined with the Son and the Father as a family unite. Jesus said I am in the Father and the Father is in me, also you will be in me and I in you. This spiritual oneness is a spiritual family unite. We are not gods, but God's family (sons/daughters) joined to Christ by the Holy Spirit that in dwells us. Therefore we become the third in the triune relationship aspects of the EKHAD (ONE) God who is infinite Holy Spirit (John 4:24).

God is spirit and we worship Him in spirit and truth but that doesn't make us the 3rd member of the Triune God.

Scriptures say the Holy Ghost who indwells us moulds us into the personage of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. Day by day we are becoming like him, according to his beatitudes.

What verse is that?

We are transformed in his likeness when we talk the talk and walk the walk that exemplifies our Lord when he was on earth with his disciples, therefore we are to become like him in everyway according to his personage. We become his ambassadors in the world and him in us.

I do not disagree with any of this. I disagree with the notion that we become the 3rd member of the triune God.

This verse implies the unforgivable sin that Jesus was alluding to to warn believers that there is coming a day that when the Holy Ghost indwells his temple, any person calling that temple a fool has blasphemed the Holy Ghost. That is why when we are brought into adoption we become part of the trinity of God as sons of God.

I think that the unforgiving sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit not the temple.

 

[MikeEnders]

The Church of scripture is one united ecclesial body (Eph 4:3-4; Eph 4:13-16; Jn 17:21; Mt 16:18) without schismatic divisions.

You scriptural arguments would be much more compelling if you actually read the scriptures

New International Version
In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it.
1 Cor 11:18

ooops church identified as the church but with divisions

No such passage in the Bible that states having divisions means you are not God's church. you just made that up and put scripture references that make no such claim. meanwhile back in reality

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...0ecef4-8f89-11e3-b227-12a45d109e03_story.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...issues-such-as-divorce-and-birth-control.html

oh oh - Roman Catholics fail your standard as well

 

[daydreamergurl15]

The Church of scripture is one united ecclesial body (Eph 4:3-4; Eph 4:13-16; Jn 17:21; Mt 16:18) without schismatic divisions (1 Cor 12:25; Rom 16:17; 1 Cor 1:10; Jude 1:19; Gal 5:20; 3 John 1:9-10), with one teaching for all the churches (Acts 15:22-23,25,28/Acts 16:4-5; 1 Tim 1:3; 1 Cor 1:10; Eph 4:5; Jude 1:3), and one bishopric authorized of and by the apostles (Titus 1:5) by the laying on of hands in ordination (Heb 6:2; 2 Tim 1:6; 1 Tim 4:14; Titus 1:5), sharing ministers back and forth among all churches (1 Cor 16:3; Rom 16:1,3,9,21,23; Phil 2:19,25; Titus 3:12), receiving one another in fellowship and in greeting (Rom 15:5-7; Rom 16:16; Col 4:10,12,14; 3 John 1:9-10), where excommunication removes individuals from this one body (Matt 18:17; 1 Corinthians 5:1-2,4-5), and which existed from St. Peter and the apostles unto today (Matt 16:18-19; Eph 3:21).

Protestantism, in Contrast, is an endless schism of divisions with multiple different teachings and authority structures, with no effective means of excommunication and no traceable Apostolic Lineage.

Even though I disagree with some of the points you made in this specific post, it's encouraging to see someone use Scripture for "doctrine and correction". That is one of the things that is so amazing about Scripture, it will reproof and correct us. We are not putting it above God, we just understand it's place as authority over ourselves.

 

[MikeEnders]

You are mistaken. Go to the Vatican Website and you will see that the proper name for the Church is simply the Catholic Church. The website never mentions a Roman Catholic church. I realize that many Catholics use the slang -- you'll even find it on Churches. But it's not official.

OH you are lost in space. Doesn't matter what the vatican website says. The questions is to what was Clement referring to. NO matter how you run away from it just as protestants refer to the universal church using the word catholic meant universal without reference to the vatican. We all believe in universal church - doesn't mean we all support the false doctrines of the Roman catholic church. There was no vatican at that time. please read or buy a clue. You are making really weeeeaaak points.

 

[Open Heart]

I think he has overdone it . Poor people usually have much more expensive chairs to sit and finer clothing oh and much better art below their vaulted marble ceilings. they really should spring for better architecture for his work places

I THINK you have a picture of Pope Benedict. Francis doesn't wear the frilly stuff. You surely must realize that none of the stuff in the room belongs to him.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Even though I disagree with some of the points you made in this specific post, it's encouraging to see someone use Scripture for "doctrine and correction". That is one of the things that is so amazing about Scripture, it will reproof and correct us.
We are not putting it above God, we just understand it's place as authority over ourselves.

AMEN! Just as this favorite spirit led commentator of mine said:

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/lb/LB1.htm

*SNIP*
........ Now, what is meant by this term – THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).

The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life. Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order.
However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death..........

 

[Open Heart]

Yes because as you just can't seem to grasp - Catholic church meant Universal church - that was what the word means. Your quote actually proves you wrong. Was the roman catholic church everywhere Jesus was at the time of the writing? nope

The Catholic Church (slang Roman Catholic Church) came into existence on Pentecost. Yes it means universal, but it was what the church was called, much like Christians were what believers were called.

 

[Open Heart]

What in the world are you talking about? Think!! letters are what we have in the Bible now so citing them proves your point wrong. The holy Spirit guided the church then precisely by written documents assembled and put into our book. Furthermore the early church fathers often quoted the same books of the bible in their teaching so in more than one way it rebukes your claim. The letters in large part were about the book.

The ECF also quoted letters and books that did not make it into Scripture but were considered authoritative.