The Preservation of the Holy Scriptures

[4x4toy]

The KJV renders several different words as hell and these distinctions can be important. The newer versions try to render these distinctions.

what's that white stuff in chicken squat ? Chicken squat .. IMO Hell is hell at least that's the way me and the KJV sees it

 

[4x4toy]

Hold on there. Folks like Tyndale certainly suffered.

However, by the time we get to the translators themselves we see a different picture, with the Anglican church having now separated itself again.

Some of the translators of the KJV who you are referring to were on the other side of that persecution. The head of the project, Richard Bancroft was known to be very harsh towards puritan believers who rejected the notion of being directed by the Anglican church, and having bishops over the local clergy. He was put in charge of investigating them under Archbishop Whitgift and some of them were dismissed from their ministry, some were jailed, and some were put to death for their teachings.

And when he became Archbishop he continued this course. Some of the other translators similarly persecuted those who wished to be independent of the Anglican state church.

Those were some rough times wonder how they got the KJV as close as they did

 

[4x4toy]

Didn't a bunch of folks get killed for even having pieces of scripture found on them

 

[kiwimac]

Didn't a bunch of folks get killed for even having pieces of scripture found on them

Not the KJV translators.

 

[kiwimac]

what's that white stuff in chicken squat ? Chicken squat .. IMO Hell is hell at least that's the way me and the KJV sees it

Then both you and the KJV would be wrong.

 

[4x4toy]

Then both you and the KJV would be wrong.

LOL .. About the chicken or hell being hell ..

 

[4x4toy]

This is simply rubbish. Not only are you factually incorrect, you are seemingly quite happy to lie about newer English translations even after you've been shown that you are wrong.

You and others sound like a new translation when you discount the KJV as profitable , but don't you use the KJV as base comparison even if to hunt down minor discrepancies .. It looks like it to me .. Don't take this to much to heart , I've learned much discussing these matters and appreciate the learning folks display here .. Peace ..

 

[tall73]

You and others sound like a new translation when you discount the KJV as profitable

I do not at all discount the KJV as profitable. I consider it one of the best translations.
I simply say it is not perfect.

 

[tall73]

The New King James Version is not the King James Version at all. Like all other modern versions, it is based on the minority text.

It is demonstrably not true that the NKJV is based on the same underlying text as the NIV, etc.

 

[tall73]

William Tyndale was convinced that it was his life's calling in duty to God to make a good translation of the Bible in English. He was opposed by Roman (Catholic) authorities and betrayed into their hands to be burned at the stake. He knew this would be his fate as the Catholic Church was not far out of the Inquisition as the protestant reformation was shaking up the Catholic Church coming out of the dark ages. Tyndale was strangled and burned at the stake, and as he was dying he prayed "Lord, open the King's eyes". Rogers got into Tyndale's room and stole away Tyndale's unfinished work before Roman authorities could get it and burn it. Rogers carried on Tyndale's work until he too was martyred. For Tyndale's bravery and dedication to translating the scriptures into English knowing he would be burned alive if Romans got hold of him, after he was burned at the stake and prayed for the King's eyes to be opened as he was engulfed in flames, he won the hearts of England and Europe and the title "The Hero Of the Reformation".



Proverbs 22:1 says :The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.


It was the answer to Tyndale's prayer that the King of England commissioned translation of the Bible into English.

It matters very much why the King James Bible is the Authorized Version.

Tyndale's version and later English versions were already present during the time of the KJV. Tyndale was indeed a martyr for his willingness to put the Bible into English (I am reading a biography of his life currently). However, some of the translators of the KJV had more in common with the folks who burned Tyndale than with Tyndale himself.

Bancroft, the head of the translation project persecuted puritans for their views that the Bible does not support bishops overseeing the local clergy. Bancroft served under then archbishop Whitgift as an investigator of these puritans. Some were removed from their positions, some jailed, and some killed for sedition for wanting to make their own church.

 

[tall73]

The New King James Version is not the King James Version at all. Like all other modern versions, it is based on the minority text.

The NKJV is not based on the same text as the NIV etc. Let's look at a list of verses that the NIV delets, from a site you seem to like. I will just post the ones now that completely remove a verse, not the ones moved to a footnote. If you like we can look at the footnote ones later.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/nivdelet.htm

Matthew 17:21
"Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."

The NKJV has it
21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.

Matthew 18:11
"For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."

The NKJV has it
11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

Matthew 23:14
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."

The NKJV has it
14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

Mark 7:16
"If any man have ears to hear, let him hear."

The NKJV has it
16 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!

Mark 9:44 --
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

The NKJV has it
44 where ‘Their worm does not die. And the fire is not quenched.

Mark 9:46
"Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

The NKJV has it
46 where ‘Their worm does not die,And the fire is not quenched

Mark 11:26
"But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."

The NKJV has it
26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Mark 15:28
"And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors."

The NKJV has it
28 So the Scripture was fulfilleda]" which says, “And He was numbered with the transgressors.”

Luke 17:36
"Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

The NKJV has it
36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.

Luke 23:17
"(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)"

The NKJV has it
17 (for it was necessary for him to release one to them at the feast).

John 5:4
"For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had."

The NKJV has it
4 For an angel went down at a certain time into the pool and stirred up the water; then whoever stepped in first, after the stirring of the water, was made well of whatever disease he had

Acts 8:37
"And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

The NKJV has it
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Acts 15:34
"Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still."

The NKJV has it
34 However, it seemed good to Silas to remain there.

Acts 24:7
"But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands,"

The NKJV has it
7 But the commander Lysias came by and with great violence took him out of our hands,

Acts 28:29
"And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."

The NKJV has it
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed and had a great dispute among themselves.

Romans 16:24
"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."

The NKJV has it
24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

I John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

The NKJV has it
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

Now Joe, I went through all the list of verses that the NIV omits listed on that site. And the NKJV includes them all, just as the KJV does. Why did you misrepresent the NKJV and its text?

 

[4x4toy]

I do not at all discount the KJV as profitable. I consider it one of the best translations.
I simply say it is not perfect.

What is perfection to you .. If I see 2 fruit trees , one symmetrically perfect , but the other appears less attractive with 2 or three branches broken off in a storm .. They both still have their root system intact and produce fruit .. Which one is perfect ? I think we're on the same page ..

 

[HantsUK]

Tyndale's version and later English versions were already present during the time of the KJV. Tyndale was indeed a martyr for his willingness to put the Bible into English (I am reading a biography of his life currently). However, some of the translators of the KJV had more in common with the folks who burned Tyndale than with Tyndale himself.

Bancroft, the head of the translation project persecuted puritans for their views that the Bible does not support bishops overseeing the local clergy. Bancroft served under then archbishop Whitgift as an investigator of these puritans. Some were removed from their positions, some jailed, and some killed for sedition for wanting to make their own church.

And we must not forget that the AV (KJV) was authorised by King James - a king who actively persecuted Baptists. Being a Baptist during his reign was dangerous. It was King James who ordered the execution of Edward Wightman in 1612, the last person to be burned at the stake for heresy in England. Although normally people were left to die in prison, out of sight.

King James was the reason that the Pilgrim Fathers left England for America.

One of the reasons for a new translation was to combat the Separatist movement (which included Baptists).

All the translators were members of the state church, which was under the control of the king. None suffered persecution, or died, due to their translation efforts. Any Baptist or American who objects to more recent Bible translations due to some of the people involved (eg Westcott and Hort) must also reject the AV due to the involvement of King James and it being a product of the Established Church.

But fortunately God can still use the work of sinful men, carried out for highly questionable motives.

In the UK, we generally refer to this translation as the AV, not the KJV. I do not think that God's Word should be named after a man. And as a Baptist, naming it after someone who actively opposed Baptists is objectionable. I also find it very strange that American Baptists have a high regard of King James.

 

[4x4toy]

th

And we must not forget that the AV (KJV) was authorised by King James - a king who actively persecuted Baptists. Being a Baptist during his reign was dangerous. It was King James who ordered the execution of Edward Wightman in 1612, the last person to be burned at the stake for heresy in England. Although normally people were left to die in prison, out of sight.

King James was the reason that the Pilgrim Fathers left England for America.

One of the reasons for a new translation was to combat the Separatist movement (which included Baptists).

All the translators were members of the state church, which was under the control of the king. None suffered persecution, or died, due to their translation efforts. Any Baptist or American who objects to more recent Bible translations due to some of the people involved (eg Westcott and Hort) must also reject the AV due to the involvement of King James and it being a product of the Established Church.

But fortunately God can still use the work of sinful men, carried out for highly questionable motives.

In the UK, we generally refer to this translation as the AV, not the KJV. I do not think that God's Word should be named after a man. And as a Baptist, naming it after someone who actively opposed Baptists is objectionable. I also find it very strange that American Baptists have a high regard of King James.

How or does Guy Fawkes figure in ?

 

[4x4toy]

And we must not forget that the AV (KJV) was authorised by King James - a king who actively persecuted Baptists. Being a Baptist during his reign was dangerous. It was King James who ordered the execution of Edward Wightman in 1612, the last person to be burned at the stake for heresy in England. Although normally people were left to die in prison, out of sight.

King James was the reason that the Pilgrim Fathers left England for America.

One of the reasons for a new translation was to combat the Separatist movement (which included Baptists).

All the translators were members of the state church, which was under the control of the king. None suffered persecution, or died, due to their translation efforts. Any Baptist or American who objects to more recent Bible translations due to some of the people involved (eg Westcott and Hort) must also reject the AV due to the involvement of King James and it being a product of the Established Church.

But fortunately God can still use the work of sinful men, carried out for highly questionable motives.

In the UK, we generally refer to this translation as the AV, not the KJV. I do not think that God's Word should be named after a man. And as a Baptist, naming it after someone who actively opposed Baptists is objectionable. I also find it very strange that American Baptists have a high regard of King James.

Wow , no wonder Wightman was burned at the stake according to what he sent to the king , if true what all I saw , he was as bad as Simon Magus claiming to be God , Savior , Holy Spirit

 

[tall73]

Wow , no wonder Wightman was burned at the stake according to what he sent to the king , if true what all I saw , he was as bad as Simon Magus claiming to be God , Savior , Holy Spirit

I don't know much about the case. Can you post your sources. I was unaware they had copies of what was sent to the king.

 

[4x4toy]

I don't know much about the case. Can you post your sources. I was unaware they had copies of what was sent to the king.

Hi tall73 .. I don't know how to post links , sorry .. I started with Wicki , which I don't always trust , then surfed around to match info .. It seems his new material was not received quick enough for the clergy and not catching on so he sent a copy to the king ..He was a nut job IMO

 

[Goodbook]

Yea I noticed americans always call it KJV while Uk ppl call it AV.

I just know it as the Holy Bible, as opposed to any other kind of bible. Or scriptures or Gods Word.

I think ppl who mess with it and try to change it according to their own preferences are on dangerous ground. It is precious treasure and ought to be written on our hearts which WILL be perfectly preserved in the resurrection...so there?

God has his book of Life and his Word is such a gift to us, that we ought to treat it with utmust respect for its truth and wisdom.

 

[Avid]

I am good with KJV, KJB, AV, AV 1611, and any of the other specific terms that has been applied to it.

Have a Brother-in-law who is ordained a Baptist minister (confirmed thief and conniver as well) who thought he'd be funny, and said he'd get me an AV 1611, but was sure I'd be disappointed. I asked why, and he said he didn't think I could read it. He never spent a penny on me that way, but I eventually got one. I don't use it the way I use one that is newer, but I don't find it impossible to read as he imagined I would!

 

[Goodbook]

Well for a start the book is so giant you can hardly lift it, and then its in that really hard to read gothic type script too.

I myself like just a plain largish print version.