Can I be Christian and Not Believe the Bible?

[Albion]

You then believe in the literal flood event, which geologists have proven did not happen well over 100 years ago? In fact, these were Christian geologists.

Scientists have not disproved the Great Flood. They probably have disproved what some people imagined it to have been, but many of us and plenty of good theologians had already set the record straight...if they'd been listening.

 

[ananda]

The 66 book Bible that almost all denominations use.

But if you use the Roman Catholic version or some other, the answer to the question wouldn't change. So knock yourself out by reading a few extra books that don't include the answers to any doctrinal questions and do not bear upon whether one is a Christian or not--if you want to.

Personally, I believe one could take either of them and live by the teachings within and have a relationship with God.

How about smaller self-identified Christian groups that believe in less than 66 books?

 

[Colter]

I have the authority of Scripture, to tell people that the bible is the actual Word of God, and it is all truth and all to believed.

The religions of authority divide men, the religion of the spirit bring men together.
It was the so called authority of the Hebrew scripture that was used (and is still used today) to discredit Jesus. Somehow that is lost. Just ask the Jews and they will give you a number of scripture based reasons as to why they don't believe in Jesus.

 

[JacksBratt]

The Bible books don't claim to be written by God, that's Biblical idolatry (a graven image). Besides, if Moses was really the author of Genesis (using Hebrew that didn't even exist yet in his day), there are no scripture books for the other 3,000 years before him.

The priest class has long used its own self serving teaching that God wrote the books that they wrote themselves in order to control the masses. As an institution the Bible books are where they derive their authority.

Jesus never taught this institutional teaching that one must believe books were written by God in order to believe in him.

It's not Bible-anity it's Christ-ianity.

I think this explains it:

2 Timothy 3:16King James Version (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Also in Wiki we see that:

Mosaic authorship, or leMoshe miSinai ("given to Moses on Sinai") is the Jewish tradition (later adopted by Christian scholars) that the Torah was dictated to Moses by God, with the exception of the last eight verses of Deuteronomy, which describe the death and burial of Moses.

In Luke:

Luke 16:17 *
17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.


We also get this from Revelation:
Revelation 22:18 - 19*
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

 

[pastor marty]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

As St. John the baptist said, " Repent,get baptised & start down the Christpath.All Jesus's good advice came from the old-Test.so don't throw yer' copy in the fire.I also have an Encyclopedia 'cause I can't remember everything. marty

 

[Colter]

Scientists have not disproved the Great Flood. They probably have disproved what some people imagined it to have been, but many of us and plenty of good theologians had already set the record straight...if they'd been listening.

Common sense has disproven the flood as it is written in the scripture, not as apologist have worked their metal gymnastics on it.

 

[justlookinla]

How about smaller self-identified Christian groups that believe in less than 66 books?

If the books present Jesus Christ as Lord and savior, sure.

 

[Givemeareason]

Are you one, that typically likes to rely on the opinions of others, before making important decisions?

No, I think for myself. But I often need to validate myself by checking in on reality on occasion.

 

[Albion]

Common sense has disproven the flood as it is written in the scripture

How do you mean? Even when I was in grade school, I was taught that the idea of the Flood nor the Biblical account of it should make us think that every last square foot of land on Earth was supposed to have been covered by water. So you are left to be mad at the idea that floods can happen. I think they can.

 

[Colter]

I think this explains it:

2 Timothy 3:16King James Version (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Also in Wiki we see that:

Mosaic authorship, or leMoshe miSinai ("given to Moses on Sinai") is the Jewish tradition (later adopted by Christian scholars) that the Torah was dictated to Moses by God, with the exception of the last eight verses of Deuteronomy, which describe the death and burial of Moses.

In Luke:

Luke 16:17 *


17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.


We also get this from Revelation:
Revelation 22:18 - 19*
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

* LOL! I've always loved that excuse making "
dictated to Moses by God, with the exception of the last eight verses of Deuteronomy, which describe the death and burial of Moses.

* One had to wait till the end of the Bible to find the unattributed letter to Timothy by an unknown author who gives an opinion......Timothy wasn't even scripture yet until the church decided it was.

* The end of the Book of Revelation was for that book, it was common to say that back before copyright law.

 

[bhsmte]

No, I think for myself. But I often need to validate myself by checking in on reality on occasion.

What do you think is the best way to determine what reality is?

 

[Albion]

How about smaller self-identified Christian groups that believe in less than 66 books?

You mean stray individuals who have their own theories on what they would like Christianity to be?

 

[Avid]

... I still have no faith...

Faith is trust. Faith is also, belief, but these terms have lost a lot of impact over the recent years (decades, centuries.) Why do you wish to be identified with something you say you do not believe, nor trust?

BTW, it is clear you can call yourself a Christian without any of what has been described as pertaining to Christianity.

 

[pastor marty]

The religions of authority divide men, the religion of the spirit bring men together.
It was the so called authority of the Hebrew scripture that was used (and is still used today) to discredit Jesus. Somehow that is lost. Just ask the Jews and they will give you a number of scripture based reasons as to why they don't believe in Jesus.

And GOD Hisself called the Jews a stubborn&stiffnecked people.Oddly enough the Hebrews rejected the books that spoke of an immanent Saviour about 100 yrs. B4 Jesus > Go figure ! Dead Sea scrolls/book of Sirach is one & there R others. They (Jews) are just upset 'cause they killed another Prophet (didn't God mention their bad habit of doing that ???We give 'em billions in aid,tell the Arabs to leave them alone and thats how they say thanks,' Christian Cousins.' Some people,huh !!

 

[bhsmte]

Scientists have not disproved the Great Flood. They probably have disproved what some people imagined it to have been, but many of us and plenty of good theologians had already set the record straight...if they'd been listening.

I wouldn't go to a theologian, to determine the truth about an event that a trained geologist can determine, with evidence.

Of course, the theologian may give you the opinion you want, but I doubt you would go to your accountant, if you needed treatment for a medical condition. You would likely seek the opinion, of a medical professional trained to deal with the same.

 

[Givemeareason]

What do you think is the best way to determine what reality is?

I often exist in the 3rd perspective within my mind. From there I exercise judgement on myself and all that is. Since I am not myself, I think I see things more objectively. I arrive at what I believe to be true about myself and reality. Then I experience life from there. This may sound arrogant which I am but I cannot deny that perspective.

 

[lucaspa]

As of right now, I have decided to become Christian. The reason I can be this is because I believe the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed. And I would like to follow it. So as a Christian, my first goal is to understand Jesus more than ever before. Is that not what all the disciples did? I would like to become more like them. And so to better understand Jesus I would like to see things more from his point of view. Now the new testament offers a pretty good view of this. So when I hear that Jesus said that the old laws are still in effect I see who he was talking to. He was talking primarily to Jews and not me. And that is good for me to know so I can now forget about the old testament and focus on the new. The old is just there to be viewed from an historical perspective. So am I not now a Christian but perhaps of a different denomination? Now I am beginning to wonder if this denomination already exists?

To be a Christian, you must agree with the beliefs in the Nicene Creed or the Apostle's Creed. Those state the foundational beliefs of Christianity and having the same beliefs is necessary and sufficient to be a Christian. Do you believe the same as stated in those creeds?

Those statements are more extensive than "the message of Jesus was a wondrous and beautiful message indeed." The creeds go the relationship between Jesus and God -- specifically the Trinity. Jesus himself was always a bit vague about that relationship. He referred to himself as "son of man". That term is found only in the Old Testament. So how do you understand that part of the message if you discard the Old Testament?

You need to remember that Jesus was born a Jew, lived a Jew, and died a Jew. Yes, he was talking to Jews, but considering that Judaism was the cornerstone of his being and message, I am not following how you are deciding you can throw out the OT. Don't you need to understand the OT from the theological perspective so you can understand Jesus' message?

Jesus never spoke to Gentiles -- non-Jews. In fact, "all the disciples" who followed Jesus around were preaching only to Jews! It was men who were never one of the disciples -- principally Paul -- who made preaching to Gentiles his primary ministry. And Paul did not want his Gentile converts to ignore the OT or treat it as "just there to be viewed from an historical perspective". Look at 2 Timothy 3:16. He admonishes his Gentile converts to read the OT for its theological message. That is what he means by "instruction in righteousness".

 

[Givemeareason]

Faith is trust. Faith is also, belief, but these terms have lost a lot of impact over the recent years (decades, centuries.) Why do you wish to be identified with something you say you do not believe, nor trust?

BTW, it is clear you can call yourself a Christian without any of what has been described as pertaining to Christianity.

Because I have always loved Jesus.

 

[Colter]

How do you mean? Even when I was in grade school, I was taught that the idea of the Flood nor the Biblical account of it should make us think that every last square foot of land on Earth was supposed to have been covered by water. So you are left to be mad at the idea that floods can happen. I think they can.

Read the story's in the scripture, they are clear. The flood was a Hebrew device to trace their blood lines to Adam. In Babylon the Hebrews completely rewrote their history, they converted secular into miraculous. There are no secular history books of the Jews before Babylon.

 

[bhsmte]

I often exist in the 3rd perspective within my mind. From there I exercise judgement on myself and all that is. Since I am not myself, I think I see things more objectively. I arrive at what I believe to be true about myself and reality. Then I experience life from there. This may sound arrogant which I am but I cannot deny that perspective.

That sounds good, but I was more concerned with how you verify, that this third perspective you discuss, is actually finding true reality?