Can I be Christian and Not Believe the Bible?

[angelavoltaire]

I find it amusing that anyone wishes to believe in the creator of all things yet doesn't want to believe he made it.

Why do I reject the theory of evolution? Because the only reason it exists is to disprove God. It is not science, it is poison to the mind.

Hello, let us not confuse the theory of création with the theory of évolution. The theory of évolution is not about création but rather how the species evolved once they were created.

 

[Catherineanne]

So you are saying that only the church instituted by Christ was the Nicene church yet for hundreds of year before nowhere and no one held the creed of the nicene church. Fact is the Nicene creed is completely opposed to ALL the early church fathers and the bible as they quoted it. Yet the Nicene creed was extremely Familiar to the beliefs of many pagan belief systems some even documented some 1000 years before. Just a few name changes so they could use NT writings to use as a means of deception.

Thanks for the offer but I am saying only what I have said, and not what you choose to interpret from that.

Your version of church history leaves a great deal to be desired. I could unwrap it, but frankly life is far too short. I suggest you abandon Wiki and read some reputable books on the subject. And while you are at it, you could read some works by the Church Fathers and Mothers.

 

[Catherineanne]

Essentially there is still only one church. Jesus will not return for denominations, he will return for the redeemed in every denomination. Why do we contend about differences?

What a refreshing change. Someone I can agree with. : )

 

[Catherineanne]

The Great Schism? I am not familiar with this?

Aka the East-West Schism. Same thing. For the first 1000 years of its history, there was only one church; one denomination. There may have been disagreements, but there was truly indeed only one faith, one church and one Lord. Happy days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East–West_Schism

 

[Oncedeceived]

What a refreshing change. Someone I can agree with. : )

I agree as well. WE are the bride and Christ will come for the Bride!

 

[angelavoltaire]

Are there any végétarian Christians in this discussion, sincè there is enough évidence to show that Jésus taught compassion for all living beings?

 

[Catherineanne]

I agree as well. WE are the bride and Christ will come for the Bride!

I prefer to think of myself as one of the bridesmaids waiting at the door. Or an usher, maybe. Almost invisible; handing out the order of service. : )

 

[TillICollapse]

Excellent point.

Thank you.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I prefer to think of myself as one of the bridesmaids waiting at the door. Or an usher, maybe. Almost invisible; handing out the order of service. : )

Why? You are covered by Jesus Himself and He makes you worthy.

 

[rkl1963]

Thanks for the offer but I am saying only what I have said, and not what you choose to interpret from that.

Your version of church history leaves a great deal to be desired. I could unwrap it, but frankly life is far too short. I suggest you abandon Wiki and read some reputable books on the subject. And while you are at it, you could read some works by the Church Fathers and Mothers.

Actually I have spent nearly 40 years studying ALL of the Church Fathers ,pre nicene, nicene and post nicene. I have actually translated them from original language because even them are subject to interpretation. I have also done extensive historical research. You seem to have only read those that support your belief because you feel reading others might jeopardize your faith or cause you to question what you were told to believe

 

[Albion]

Actually I have spent nearly 40 years studying ALL of the Church Fathers ,pre nicene, nicene and post nicene. I have actually translated them from original language because even them are subject to interpretation. I have also done extensive historical research.

That being the case, I can't imagine why you would take issue with what Catherineanne has written here. Would you say that your study has turned you into something of a revisionist when it comes to Church history??

 

[Colter]

All was going well for the first 50 years or so in the church, then some guy shows up with a folding table, chair....a cape and a pointed hat and declares "we're goanna have some rules around here!" Benn in decline ever sense!

 

[Albion]

All was going well for the first 50 years or so in the church, then some guy shows up with a folding table, chair....a cape and a pointed hat and declares "we're goanna have some rules around here!" Benn in decline ever sense!

That's not nearly as amusing as I'm guessing you thought it would be.

 

[Catherineanne]

Actually I have spent nearly 40 years studying ALL of the Church Fathers ,pre nicene, nicene and post nicene. I have actually translated them from original language because even them are subject to interpretation. I have also done extensive historical research. You seem to have only read those that support your belief because you feel reading others might jeopardize your faith or cause you to question what you were told to believe

Nice attitude. Did you learn that from the Church Fathers?

 

[BukiRob]

I will state that the Bible all of it is the word of God and each part a tool for the believer. I don't think that you can be as Jesus wants us to be without it. But salvation is the gift and one that remains unaltered by our own hand. Does that make sense?

Yes.

Where I depart is when I hear the "grace only" crowd who wants to proclaim that the Torah does not apply at all to them... this is a deep deception that scripture speaks about in very unkind words.

There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. Proverbs 14:12

"The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it? Jer 17:9

the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.1 Jn 2:6

And how did Messiah walk? In full obedience to the Torah.

 

[kcmonseysr]

I don't have as many beliefs as most. I see them as anchors limiting my ability to see other things. What I do have though is a moral foundation that I try to live by.

Hi there giveme - I THINK that maybe I am beginning to understand what you're seeking. The goal is admirable, but please be aware that "there may be dragons" where you seek to tread. I only say this since is it seeming to me that you are treading treading into these waters with just your own (human) wisdom to guide you. Please don't take this observation as a chastisement, for I myself have been there, done that and have some of the scars to prove it. Just be aware that the prophet Jeremiah also warned us all (Jeremiah 17:9-10):

"The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick; Who can understand it?​

Who indeed??

"I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the results of his deeds.​

So I would just encourage you to seek help from He who offers it. Yes, I know, it's hard to do that and also keep your title of "Atheist", but I do say to you that without asking for such guidance then you will be in serious danger of being really, really messed with by nasty types. And even with such guidance, don't be ashamed to crawl before you try to walk, and to walk before you try to run. Just as Paul advised Timothy when speaking of elders in the local church, that such a one:

…not [be] a new convert, lest he become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. ​

Best wishes.

 

[TillICollapse]

The Book of Revelation was not written by Jesus but John. Which John is not clear.

Yes I realize that author attributions are often suspect, which is why I said "apparently", since it's often taken at face value generally speaking, that it's John the Apostle (yes ?). Regardless, most major Christian denoms/branches/etc consider it canon AKAIK, yes ?

The churches you mention are different geographical locations of the same church. They were not separate denominations; nothing like it. Of course they all faced different issues, but they were the same church. The Great Schism had not yet happened.

I am afraid much of your argument is anachronistic.

I mentioned this example specifically because it was before the schism. I thought this was obvious. I also didn't say they were different denominations, I pointed out they were several churches being addressed. These churches were identified via different locations, and had their own unique issues which were apparently different from each other, etc. It seems you would agree with this much, yes ?

It seems to me there was more than one church. On what do you base they were all "one" church ? I may guess at your train of thought, but I don't want to assume.

 

[bhsmte]

Actually I have spent nearly 40 years studying ALL of the Church Fathers ,pre nicene, nicene and post nicene. I have actually translated them from original language because even them are subject to interpretation. I have also done extensive historical research. You seem to have only read those that support your belief because you feel reading others might jeopardize your faith or cause you to question what you were told to believe

Your last sentence, is usually the way it works.

 

[Catherineanne]

Why? You are covered by Jesus Himself and He makes you worthy.

What matters is to be present at the Feast, not to presume to a place on the the top table. : )

 

[Colter]

That's not nearly as amusing as I'm guessing you thought it would be.

Some of you take yourselves a bit to seriously, if the humor was lost on you then so be it.

"The burdensome religion of the Pharisees could never have had origin among a people with a sense of humor. They also lack consistency; they strain at gnats and swallow camels.”