Christian massacre in Kenya kills 147 ... Islamist group al Shabab claims credit

[NightHawkeye]

Militants Kill 147 In Kenyan University Attack | Sky News

The gunmen hurled grenades and fired automatic rifles as students were sleeping, shooting dead dozens before setting Muslims free and holding Christians and others hostage.​

 

[dgiharris]

It feels like our War on Terror isn't much of a war.

If all the major countries got together and said, "You know what, lets eradicate these vermin" I just don't see these guys lasting longer than a couple of years.

But the truth is, we just aren't serious about this War on Terror. And by "we" I mean the West, all Western countries.

We need to literally band together like circa WWII, form an alliance, unleash the dogs of war, and go after these guys.

However, with all that being said, the primary means for winning this War on Terror is NOT going to be conventional military. No. It will be Intelligence.

We need to seed all these orgs with spies and informants, figure out the structures and THEN call in the conventional forces to clean em out.

Unfortunately, it takes years to successfully create and plant the informants. You would think with 9/11 we would have done so. If I were king during 9/11 I would have started a million billion dollar "planting" campaign where we recruit and plant all types of informants and spies in every part of the world that was susceptible to terrorism. Kenya, Syria, Bosnia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Libya, everywhere. If we had started back in 2002 then we'd have a robust network by now 13 years later.

I "hope" we did that, of course, the powers that be could never tell us. But I fear we may not have done so, we just aren't that forward thinking against anyone but Russia.

 

[NightHawkeye]

It feels like our War on Terror isn't much of a war.

If all the major countries got together and said, "You know what, lets eradicate these vermin" I just don't see these guys lasting longer than a couple of years.

But the truth is, we just aren't serious about this War on Terror. And by "we" I mean the West, all Western countries.

We need to literally band together like circa WWII, form an alliance, unleash the dogs of war, and go after these guys.

However, with all that being said, the primary means for winning this War on Terror is NOT going to be conventional military. No. It will be Intelligence.

We need to seed all these orgs with spies and informants, figure out the structures and THEN call in the conventional forces to clean em out.

Unfortunately, it takes years to successfully create and plant the informants. You would think with 9/11 we would have done so. If I were king during 9/11 I would have started a million billion dollar "planting" campaign where we recruit and plant all types of informants and spies in every part of the world that was susceptible to terrorism. Kenya, Syria, Bosnia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Libya, everywhere. If we had started back in 2002 then we'd have a robust network by now 13 years later.

I "hope" we did that, of course, the powers that be could never tell us. But I fear we may not have done so, we just aren't that forward thinking against anyone but Russia.

Hi, dgiharris.

I would merely argue that the first step is to identify the enemy. The political classes have not yet done that. The enemy is Islamism, otherwise known as political Islam which seeks to forcibly control essentially all aspects of life. It is incompatible with western civilization.

 

[dgiharris]

Hi, dgiharris.

I would merely argue that the first step is to identify the enemy. The political classes have not yet done that. The enemy is Islamism, otherwise known as political Islam which seeks to forcibly control essentially all aspects of life. It is incompatible with western civilization.

I have to be honest, initially I thought otherwise, but now I'm not so sure I disagree.

first off, I don't know a lot about Islam. I have to imagine they are like Christianity in the sense that there has got to be a dozen different sects.

Not all Muslims are the same and not all Muslims believe as these extremists do. So a general War on Islam is simply out of the question.

However, if there are Muslim States out there where the writing is on the wall that we can never live in peace, then yes, a preemptive war is warranted.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Dp

 

[ThinkForYourself]

It feels like our War on Terror isn't much of a war.

If all the major countries got together and said, "You know what, lets eradicate these vermin" I just don't see these guys lasting longer than a couple of years.

But the truth is, we just aren't serious about this War on Terror. And by "we" I mean the West, all Western countries.

We need to literally band together like circa WWII, form an alliance, unleash the dogs of war, and go after these guys.

However, with all that being said, the primary means for winning this War on Terror is NOT going to be conventional military. No. It will be Intelligence.

We need to seed all these orgs with spies and informants, figure out the structures and THEN call in the conventional forces to clean em out.

Unfortunately, it takes years to successfully create and plant the informants. You would think with 9/11 we would have done so. If I were king during 9/11 I would have started a million billion dollar "planting" campaign where we recruit and plant all types of informants and spies in every part of the world that was susceptible to terrorism. Kenya, Syria, Bosnia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Libya, everywhere. If we had started back in 2002 then we'd have a robust network by now 13 years later.

I "hope" we did that, of course, the powers that be could never tell us. But I fear we may not have done so, we just aren't that forward thinking against anyone but Russia.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

But I can't help but feel that at least in part, the "War on Terror", like the "War on Drugs", is at least partially fueled by the huge profits certain companies/people are making. Do the Western governments really want peace? The way the Western democracies/republics are set up, the people making the profits also tend to be the ones who can afford to bribe, sorry, contribute to, politicians.

Also, do you think it would legitimize the process if G W Bush was tried as a War Criminal? From all I have read, it seems very likely that the Invasion of Iraq was based on lies concocted by the administration.

Here is a piece of declassified information:

"We might add to this dossier of propaganda and manipulation the fact amply documented that ISIS is a terrorist entity supported and financed by the Western military alliance.
National Security Archive Briefing Book No. 418"


And from the chief of CIA chief of clandestine operations for Europe:
On April 23, 2006, CBS’s “60 Minutes” interviewed Tyler Drumheller, the former CIA chief of clandestine operations for Europe, who disclosed that the agency had received documentary intelligence from Naji Sabri, Saddam’s foreign minister, that Saddam did not have WMD. “We continued to validate him the whole way through,” said Drumheller. “The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy.” ​

It is pretty hypocritical for Americans to be complaining about terrorism and then shrug off the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims who may have been essentially murdered by the USA in what amounts to an illegal war.

Whether GWB is found guilty or not, I think it would mean a lot to millions, perhaps billions of Muslims.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

drown em in pigs blood and set their families on fire. make examples and be 100x as brutal. eventually theyll get the hint

(bolding mine)


Are you happy to learn that Pastors are already burning children in Africa? Actually, the Pastors burned the children first.

Is that really what you want?

African Children Denounced As "Witches" By Christian Pastors

Nwanaokwo Edet was one of an increasing number of children in Africa accused of witchcraft by pastors and then tortured or killed, often by family members. Pastors were involved in half of 200 cases of "witch children" reviewed by the AP, and 13 churches were named in the case files.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

The enemy is Islamism, otherwise known as political Islam which seeks to forcibly control essentially all aspects of life. It is incompatible with western civilization.

Are you implying that there's such thing as Islam which isn't political and doesn't seek to forcibly control all aspects of life? There's really nothing else to Islam.

 

[kiwimac]

Heiferdust

 

[NightHawkeye]

Are you implying that there's such thing as Islam which isn't political and doesn't seek to forcibly control all aspects of life? There's really nothing else to Islam.

There are many who claim that to be the case. One can hope that to be true.

 

[dgiharris]

...

But I can't help but feel that at least in part, the "War on Terror", like the "War on Drugs", is at least partially fueled by the huge profits certain companies/people are making. Do the Western governments really want peace? The way the Western democracies/republics are set up, the people making the profits also tend to be the ones who can afford to bribe, sorry, contribute to, politicians..

I used to disdain conspiracy theories along these lines. However.....

If you look historically at the US foreign policy you could reach one of three conclusions

#1) The US has consistently used monkeys to develop their foreign policy
#2) The US is purposefully ensuring future military conflicts
#3) The US is doing it's best but the foreign situations are just too complex

I personally feel it is a combination of #2 and #3, reason being, sometimes the mistakes we make are just too stupid. LIke with ISIS, did you know that the US military left the majority of their weapons and equipment behind because it was cheaper to leave it behind than to simply destroy it or take it back with us.

And guess who was the major benefactor of that leftover equipment? ISIS. Yes, ISIS has most of the equipment we left behind. Imagine that

...
Also, do you think it would legitimize the process if G W Bush was tried as a War Criminal? From all I have read, it seems very likely that the Invasion of Iraq was based on lies concocted by the administration. .

This would be a disastrous idea. The American Legal System is built on precedent. There is no way the US government would ever set this precedent for a US president no matter how much he was despised. I hated Bush but even I would never advocate that he face War Crimes. From a Political Science, Machiavelli, and National Interest's perspective, that would be the equivalent of carving out your left eyeball.

It would do way too much damage to the US and do nothing in the way of appeasing Terrorists. It's not like they are all going to stop if we bring Bush up on charges. If anything, it will embolden them. Some enemies you can't show weakness against, and these are definitely that type of enemy. We are beyond rational discourse, it is a battle of wills to the death. > There is no dialogue that is going to solve our conflict.

...

It is pretty hypocritical for Americans to be complaining about terrorism and then shrug off the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Muslims who may have been essentially murdered by the USA in what amounts to an illegal war.

Whether GWB is found guilty or not, I think it would mean a lot to millions, perhaps billions of Muslims.

There is some truth to the above, however there is no such thing as an illegal war. The concept of legality is lost when States act against States. It becomes a matter of who is strongest.

When Russia invaded Ukraine did the world rally together to drive Russia off because their war was "illegal"? No.

There is no world court, there is no world authority that enforces world law, thus there is no such thing as legality between States.

Now, sure you can make arguments for right and wrong or just and unjust, but you can't make an argument for legal vs illegal. .

The only side that ever faces "War Crimes" is the side that loses the war, and that is usually right before the winners write the history books. Just the way the world works. *shrug*

 

[kiwimac]

Oh yes, G-d forbid a US President should face the international tribunals it has been insisting others face for war crimes. Bah! American hypocrisy!