Catholic bashing....

[sunlover1]

The level of disagreement over the bible seems to be well beyond that.

Well it should be as that was by design.
But it has everything to do with closing
of the ears and hard hearts.

Like every Christian until very recently; that it's meant to be understood in the community of God's people.

[/quote]

No reading God's word alone with the author?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

You know, for the Orthodox Christian it gets even more difficult.

For us... membership 'in' The Church, does not imply salvation. But for so many it does.

If I say, "You're not a member of The Church" it doesn't mean what everybody thinks it means. The definitions of words and phrases are very different from East to West.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[ebia]

Well it should be as that was by design. But it has everything to do with closing of the ears and hard hearts.

So it only self-explains to people who agree with you?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I think this forum pretty much proves that the bible does not explain itself.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[ebia]

I think this forum pretty much proves that the bible does not explain itself. God be gracious to me a sinner.

Yep

 

[Albion]

I think this forum pretty much proves that the bible does not explain itself.

Well, what does? Nothing that's been offered as an alternative to the Bible by any church that I know of.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Well, what does? Nothing that's been offered as an alternative to the Bible by any church that I know of.

Scripture has always needed explaining.

Acts 8:30-31
And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[SwordFall]

How bout all of us are THE CHURCH?

There's an apostolic succession in Rome, running the largest church in the world, which has been around for 1700 years, and founded on 300 years of martyrdom.
Yours was founded several centuries ago by a guy who basically thought he knew everything. Like you all today, yet you all tell something slightly different from the next. That's not even a church by archaic standards.

So no.

 

[sunlover1]

So it only self-explains to people who agree with you?

Why not just address my words, rather than twist them?

You know, for the Orthodox Christian it gets even more difficult.

For us... membership 'in' The Church, does not imply salvation. But for so many it does.

If I say, "You're not a member of The Church" it doesn't mean what everybody thinks it means. The definitions of words and phrases are very different from East to West.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Amen
We all see and hear through our own lens of experience,
knowledge, intelligence etc. SAme with Scripture.
So it's not Scripture that's tough, it's our own
lack of study and showing ourselves approved,
learning to rightly divide.
There's not one good reason all of us cannot
learn to read Greek and Hebrew.
and since even those scholars will disagree,
the capital thing (imo) is to lean not unto our
won understanding, but in ALL ways, acknowledge
HIM, and let HIM direct our paths and make them
straight.
Human teachers are great, but we also need to
be able to hear the voice of the Good Shepherd,
and not follow a strangers voice.

IMO

 

[Albion]

There's an apostolic succession in Rome, running the largest church in the world, which has been around for 1700 years, and founded on 300 years of martyrdom.

Yeh, and only about a dozen other denominations can say approximately the same thing, so don't get too excited about it.

 

[sunlover1]

There's an apostolic succession in Rome, running the largest church in the world, which has been around for 1700 years, and founded on 300 years of martyrdom.
Yours was founded several centuries ago by a guy who basically thought he knew everything. Like you all today, yet you all tell something slightly different from the next. That's not even a church by archaic standards.

So no.

Mine was what??
Christ founded mine,
so.. yes.
lol

 

[Tangible]

Yours was founded several centuries ago by a guy who basically thought he knew everything.

And he just invented everything he and others found in the Bible, from the Church Fathers, and from tradition out of thin air? If this were so, how do you explain the very high degree of agreement between, say, Lutherans and Vatican Catholics?

Lutherans have amply demonstrated that everything we believe, teach and confess is had always has been present in Holy Scripture and the writings of the Church Fathers.

Can Vatican Catholics do the same?

 

[Albion]

Lutherans have amply demonstrated that everything we believe, teach and confess is had always has been present in Holy Scripture and the writings of the Church Fathers.

Can Vatican Catholics do the same?

They will of course SAY that they can.

 

[Edward65]

There's an apostolic succession in Rome, running the largest church in the world, which has been around for 1700 years, and founded on 300 years of martyrdom.

If it were possible to ask the martyrs whether they would be prepared to die today rather than disown the “church” of the popes I’m sure they would all be queuing up to disown it, and be prepared to die rather than belong to it.

 

[SwordFall]

If it were possible to ask the martyrs today whether they would be prepared to die today rather than disown the “church” of the popes I’m sure they would all be queuing up to disown it, and be prepared to die rather than belong to it.

That's pretty much laughable. Wishful thinking, if anything.

 

[GoingByzantine]

Its almost humorous how this thread has become exactly what it is titled, I doubt the OP had this in mind when they created this thread.

 

[Edward65]

That's pretty much laughable. Wishful thinking, if anything.

It's not wishful thinking. One needs to distinguish between the Church and the cult of the popes. They are two different things. The martyrs died rather than disown the true Christian Church. They certainly wouldn't have died to defend the Papacy had it been in existence then - which it wasn't.

 

[SwordFall]

It's not wishful thinking. One needs to distinguish between the Church and the cult of the popes. They are two different things. The martyrs died rather than disown the the true Christian Church. They certainly wouldn't have died to defend the Papacy had it been in existence then - which it wasn't.

That's a completely invalid argument.

 

[Albion]

If it were possible to ask the martyrs whether they would be prepared to die today rather than disown the “church” of the popes I’m sure they would all be queuing up to disown it, and be prepared to die rather than belong to it.

They'd probably first say something like "the church of the Whats?

 

[Root of Jesse]

If it were possible to ask the martyrs whether they would be prepared to die today rather than disown the “church” of the popes I’m sure they would all be queuing up to disown it, and be prepared to die rather than belong to it.

We embrace the martyrs and revere them. They are our witnesses to Christ's truth. They would know exactly where they are, for they are, right now, with us.