Do we have to keep the commandments in order to go to heaven?

[SoldierOfSoul]

I believe if you keep the two greatest Commandments, you will fulfill the others.

Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:37-40)

17This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as £the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20But you have not so learned Christ,
21if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.(Ephesians 4)

These verses show that if we are saved we should put off our old sinful nature. Paul says that the new man that we received in Christ is Holy (set apart, morally pure to God) and we are to be renewed and transformed in ourselves by this new nature, this means we are not to sin.

"Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)

Like I said we do not keep the commandments of God to be saved, we do (at least try) because we are saved. The theological term is sanctification.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

SoldierOfSoul, I think we are in agreement. (?)

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

SoldierOfSoul, I think we are in agreement. (?)

Its a possibility.

 

[bbbbbbb]

To answer the OP - no. I wish this had a poll attached to it.

 

[from scratch]

Yes.
Revelation 22:15 NASB Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Outside what? The church? which one are you going to? They're inside the church too - I Tim 4:1-4. The main trouble I have is there is no way to address these issues with those in control. Any body trying to address them is a boat rocker and thrown overobard. Ask me how I know?

 

[from scratch]

You do not try and keep the commandments to be saved, you do it because you are.

I don't! I'm under the jurisdiction of the new covenant and as such am led by the Spirit and don't perform the the lusts of the flesh - Gal 5:19-21. Verse 18 says that I'm not under (subject to) the law. 4:30 says to throw the law out!

 

[Frogster]

17This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as £the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20But you have not so learned Christ,
21if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.(Ephesians 4)

These verses show that if we are saved we should put off our old sinful nature. Paul says that the new man that we received in Christ is Holy (set apart, morally pure to God) and we are to be renewed and transformed in ourselves by this new nature, this means we are not to sin.

"Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)

Like I said we do not keep the commandments of God to be saved, we do (at least try) because we are saved. The theological term is sanctification.

welp..theologically, the law does not sanctify though. Sin , flesh, Adam, and law, run hand in hand.

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

[sheina]

If so, please show scripture. Thanks

No, we don't have to keep the commandments in order to go to heaven. Nobody is able to keep all the commandments perfectly. That is why Christ came and died on the cross...to redeem us from the curse of the law (Galatians 3:10-13)

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The O.T. Law Was a Temporary Covenant:

(1) It was given to prepare Israel for the coming of Christ:

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

(2) It was taken away when Christ died.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

What Was the Law's Purpose?

(1) It was given to reveal sin and to show man that he is a guilty sinner before God:

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

(2) It was given to bring men to Jesus Christ:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Do we have to keep the commandments in order to go to heaven?

Yes we do.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

But this willfull obediance to God's standards comes as a natural fruit of TRUE faith and not by any purposeful adherence to any specific written statutes, code or LAW.

In this way, we are saved by Grace through the faith (a gift of God) and not by the works which we produce.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

God saves us completely apart from our works. It was His plan from the foundatons of the world.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Balance is crucial.

If your asking do we need to obey Mosaic law, the answer is no.

If your asking do true Christians do the things contained within the law by nature, the answer is yes.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

 

[Howard Cneal]

If we do, then we're saved by works.

If that is so, then it is human effort and religion.

If that is true, then why did Jesus die? That is saying His sacrifice was not enough and we have to add to it.

If we have to add to it, then why Jesus at all? Why not just do good on your own and go to heaven?

 

[supersoldier71]

I cannot keep ALL the Commandments ALL the time. That is why Jesus died for me. However, once justified, comes the process of sanctification, becoming more like Christ. A believer in the lifelong process of sanctification will struggle with sin in ways that non-believers never will, as we struggle to become more loving: more love for a Creator and our fellow humans. More honest and trustworthy. In short, trying to be like Jesus is a long road. Jesus was without sin.

Because we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and justified by the blood of Christ, we become more obedient, but we are justified - saved - apart from the Law and the Commandments.

 

[Frogster]

Yes we do.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

If faith without works is dead, then can works create faith?

The two are opposite principles. Lets not fuse here. Are you saying that if one does not work, he loses justification? That would go against the whole idea, because you just fused the two, you created justification, with our addition.

We either live by faith, or live by law, notice the juxtaposition.



Gal 3:11Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”


12However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM.”

But this willfull obediance to God's standards comes as a natural fruit of TRUE faith and not by any purposeful adherence to any specific written statutes, code or LAW.

In this way, we are saved by Grace through the faith (a gift of God) and not by the works which we produce.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

God saves us completely apart from our works. It was His plan from the foundatons of the world.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Balance is crucial.

If your asking do we need to obey Mosaic law, the answer is no.

If your asking do true Christians do the things contained within the law by nature, the answer is yes.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

 

[Frogster]

I cannot keep ALL the Commandments ALL the time. That is why Jesus died for me. However, once justified, comes the process of sanctification, becoming more like Christ. A believer in the lifelong process of sanctification will struggle with sin in ways that non-believers never will, as we struggle to become more loving: more love for a Creator and our fellow humans. More honest and trustworthy. In short, trying to be like Jesus is a long road. Jesus was without sin.

Because we are regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and justified by the blood of Christ, we become more obedient, but we are justified - saved - apart from the Law and the Commandments.

My brother, we have been made holy, by the one sacrifice, heb 10:10.

The bottom line to romans, walk in the spirit, and you will not fulfill flesh. 8;13

Even in Rom 6, the great 'sanctification" chapter, really, wasn't the bottom line, to just walk as the risen Christ did, 6:9-11, and that is about being separated, a slave to Him, not flesh.

6;7, he who has died, is free from sin..

Free from sin, is said 3 times in 6. 7, 18,22.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Hey Froggy

If faith without works is dead, then can works create faith?

Nope.

The two are opposite principles. Lets not fuse here. Are you saying that if one does not work, he loses justification?

Nope. I'm saying if good fruit does not follow faith then the faith is dead. Therefore if you dont produce good works/fruit (repentance) BY NATURE then your faith is not real faith. If thats the case then you are obviously not justified.

That would go against the whole idea, because you just fused the two, you created justification, with our addition.

We either live by faith, or live by law, notice the juxtaposition.

Not fusing anything Frogmeister. We live by faith. (which just so happens to produce good works if genuine).

Good to see you bud.

 

[Frogster]

Hey Froggy



Nope.



Nope. I'm saying if good fruit does not follow faith then the faith is dead. Therefore if you dont produce good works/fruit (repentance) BY NATURE then your faith is not real faith. If thats the case then you are obviously not justified.



Not fusing anything Frogmeister. We live by faith. (which just so happens to produce good works if genuine).

Good to see you bud.

good to see you to bro.

 

[supersoldier71]

I am free from the penalty of sin, but I don't expect to reach sinlessness in this life. I am also no longer a slave to sin, first off because I now know what a sin is.

And yes, I am holy - set apart for a purpose. But of the flesh, I'm a son of Adam. Paul himself pointed out that in this life, the good that he wants to do, he doesn't do, but the evil that he does not want, he does.

I look forward to the Lord's glorification.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If so, please show scripture. Thanks

If we do, then Jesus died for nothing.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. (Galatians 2:21)

Galatians 3

1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

 

[Frogster]

I am free from the penalty of sin, but I don't expect to reach sinlessness in this life. I am also no longer a slave to sin, first off because I now know what a sin is.

And yes, I am holy - set apart for a purpose. But of the flesh, I'm a son of Adam. Paul himself pointed out that in this life, the good that he wants to do, he doesn't do, but the evil that he does not want, he does.

I look forward to the Lord's glorification.

I understand what your saying.

But it was the law, arousing sin, if we don't walk under law, we won't have a sin consciousness all day, in an ever present spiral.

We are not just free from the penalty of sin, we are free from the power, when we are in grace.

Sin reigned in Adam, but grace is our new dominion now, rom 5;21.

 

[addo]

No, we do not have to keep the commandments in order to inherit the Kingdom of God. It is not inherited by works but by trust in the One who owns it, and in the One that gave Himself for us and purified us from stains by His sacrifice.

But the keepment of the commandments is the fruit that a change happened in us.

 

[billybtennessee]

There is a very crucial point I believe here. Eph. 2:10; "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

One who has the Holy Spirit of God within them are born again, the Love of God is shed abroad in their hearts, love fulfills the commandment. In fact these are the commands of Jesus Christ. Love God, and each other. That means we will obey Him. Faith without works is indeed dead, just as James tells us. These 'works' are not limited to the OT commandments. The NT Christians 'works' will go much, much farther than the Laws contained in the OT. That does not abolish them, but we are not to focus on merely the Laws of the OT.

Keeping those Laws will not save anyone. It took the atonement of Jesus Christ to do that. His blood atonement is how we are saved, we must 'abide' in Him, He is the vine, we the branches. One abiding in Him will bear fruit revealing who we abide in. The Law brings us to Jesus Christ. Only through Jesus Christ can we obey, Rom. 6:15-18. Rom. 7:2-4. Rom. 12:1,2.

So yes, 'faith without works, is dead'. But we also need to realize how we are 'created unto good works'. Not through our righteousness, but through Jesus Christ. We can not be righteous without Him. If we are abiding in Him, the works will come. 'A tree is known by its fruit'. Great subject!