A little confused Matt 16:28

[nazar]

hi there, can someone please explain matthew 16:28 to me (it is pretty obvious when you read it)

Jesus speaking "verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

 

[Cribstyl]

hi there, can someone please explain matthew 16:28 to me (it is pretty obvious when you read it)

Jesus speaking "verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Jesus was speaking specifically of those apostles who would see Him ascend to right hand of the throne after His resurrection to be annointed with all power and authority of "The God who sits on the throne." These same apostle were told to meet Him in Galilee.
Mat 26:32But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.


Mat 28:7And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
Mat 28:10Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

Mat 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.


Here is what Paul wrote about it:
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.





We socalled Sundaykeepers, honor the Godhead as 3 persons in one God, rather than just as the Creator through observing the Sabbath.

We believe that "the Apostles of Early Church", and "the early church fathers" taught that Sabbath was for the Jews and not a Gentiles institution, nor was it commanded anywhere to Gentiles in the bible.


We believe that Paul established the ordinance of the church as; Baptism and communion, not sabbathkeeping.

 

[Servant of the Lord]

We socalled Sundaykeepers, honor the Godhead as 3 persons in one God, rather than just as the Creator through observing the Sabbath.

You are not honoring God by keeping Sunday. You are being deceived. No, actually, we so called "Sabbatarians" are the ones honoring God on the day he set aside, the day he blessed, the day he hallowed.

Sunday-keeping is nothing more than a man-made tradition created to break God's law.

 

[Servant of the Lord]

We believe that "the Apostles of Early Church", and "the early church fathers" taught that Sabbath was for the Jews and not a Gentiles institution, nor was it commanded anywhere to Gentiles in the bible.

Your belief is wrong.

"Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures" (Acts 17:2). "Paul and his party ... went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down" (Acts 13:13,14). "And on the Sabbath day we went out out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there" (Acts 16:13). "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath and persuaded both Jews and Greeks" (Acts 18:4)

Both Jews and Greeks...


If you are trying to trying to use Paul and the early church to support your false beliefs you are barking up the wrong tree..

 

[Cribstyl]

You are not honoring God by keeping Sunday. You are being deceived. No, actually, we so called "Sabbatarians" are the ones honoring God on the day he set aside, the day he blessed, the day he hallowed.

Sunday-keeping is nothing more than a man-made tradition created to break God's law.

Your understanding is not based on scriptures or you should post it. It's easy to just make comments as if your doctrine is scriptual.
SabbathKeepers favor commentary over scriptures that's why you appear solemnly angry about when people should worship.

Those whom Christ sent to preach, wrote about days of worship in Rom 14.
#1 Dont judge a man worship to God, it's for God to accept of reject, and God is able to correct a man. Your condemnation of others is what's really breaking God heart. Did Jesus visit the houses of those who kept the sabbath, or those who needed healing and deliverance?



Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Some people allow commentary to malign what is being taught here, in order to reject God's word for another doctrine....SHAME ON YOU.

You're persuaded to keep Sabbath, (I'm happy for you)
These text could have simply said "Sabbath is the only day to worship God." The text said that men have other days. Let them work it out without your condemnation (judgment).

Let's try not to run away with this thread...... I suggest you start one with less hostility ..... I'm standing on the word of God regardless of insults.

 

[Servant of the Lord]

If you truly stood for God's word, you wouldn't continue to try and justify yourself for keeping Sunday. You know why? Because you can't do it with scripture.

You don't like "commentary" but everything I've said I can thoroughly defend with a Bible. Go find me a verse that says Jesus or any of the apostles taught that the Sabbath was abolished and that Sunday was instituted in it's place and I will leave you alone.

 

[Cribstyl]

Your belief is wrong.

"Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures" (Acts 17:2). "Paul and his party ... went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down" (Acts 13:13,14). "And on the Sabbath day we went out out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there" (Acts 16:13). "And he [Paul] reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath and persuaded both Jews and Greeks" (Acts 18:4)

Both Jews and Greeks...


If you are trying to trying to use Paul and the early church to support your false beliefs you are barking up the wrong tree..

Let the record show that you're attacking my beliefs by saying : A) I am being decieved. B) my beliefs are wrong, C) My beliefs are false.

Seeing that you walked in on my conversation and accused me, why not post your comments on the texts and/or comments that I posted as my understanding of the subject about days of worship.
I will not change the issue at hand until you and I answer responses respectfully.

I dont appreciate your personal attacks on this thread, it does not help anyone to understand what you present as truth unless you post text to the contrary of my arguments.
Jam 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jam 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
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You've posted 4 sets of texts from between Acts 13-Acts 18 that uses the keyword "Sabbath" in order to show that my belief are false. Does that really make your case about Gentiles or Christian keeping the sabbath?

These text you posted proves that Paul was sent by the Holy Spirit from what is called the church, to go on a missionary journey to convert those whom the Holy Spirit would send him to. True or False?


Act 13:1¶Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Act 13:2As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Act 13:3And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid [their] hands on them, they sent [them] away.
Act 13:4¶So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
Act 13:5And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to [their] minister.


The book of Acts tells the progressive story of the Church that Jesus promised to build. The Jewish synagogues were first on God's list of people to convert because of His promise and covenants to the Jews. True of False?

The letters that Paul wrote to the various countries contains the actual doctrines of the church.... Truth or false?

That's why I submitted a teaching from Rom 14 rather than a commentary or sightwords from scriptures that does not deal with Gentile Christians.

The fact is, Peter and the other apostles were first made aware about the Gentiles being accepted into the church. (Act 10) (Acts15)

The letter of Paul teaches us that Gentiles were strangers of the covenants. Why should we believe that Gentile were and are obligated to keep the sign of the Old Covenant?

The facts we understand from the Jerusalem council (Acts15) shows that; some Jews had troubled the Gentiles about circumcision and keeping the law. They were not sent by the Apostles nor did the apostles agree with their message to the Gentiles.
I dont expect SDA cooperate with me, by answering my questions, like I always respond to their questions.
Respectfully

 

[Cribstyl]

If you truly stood for God's word, you wouldn't continue to try and justify yourself for keeping Sunday. You know why? Because you can't do it with scripture.

You don't like "commentary" but everything I've said I can thoroughly defend with a Bible. Go find me a verse that says Jesus or any of the apostles taught that the Sabbath was abolished and that Sunday was instituted in it's place and I will leave you alone.

We're still waiting to see your biblical truth. Commentaries using keywords often have an agenda to discard the context in order to highlight their argument.

I posted doctrinal text you've already dismiss as false and you'll probably argue and say it's does not mean what it says about days rendered to God.

So far, we've only read strategic games rather than truths to live by. What next????

 

[k4c]

If you truly stood for God's word, you wouldn't continue to try and justify yourself for keeping Sunday. You know why? Because you can't do it with scripture.

You don't like "commentary" but everything I've said I can thoroughly defend with a Bible. Go find me a verse that says Jesus or any of the apostles taught that the Sabbath was abolished and that Sunday was instituted in it's place and I will leave you alone.

Hi SOTL,

Don't even bother sharing truth with those who can't receive truth. Rememebr what was said long ago still applies to today.

Matthew 7:6 "Don't give holy things to depraved men. Don't give pearls to swine! They will trample the pearls and turn and attack you.

If one has not made peace with God's Law they have not made peace with God.

Romans 8:7 Because the old sinful nature within us is against God. It never did obey God's laws and it never will.

For those who want to know the truth about who changed the Sabbath day.

Official quote from The Catholic Catechism
Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer - “Saturday is the Sabbath day.”
Question - “Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?”
Answer – “We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." Peter Geiermann,C.S.S.R., The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.​

Official Statement of the Catholic Church
“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.​

Official Statement of the Catholic Church
“Sunday is our mark of authority, the church is above the Bible, and this transference
of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923”.​

 

[Servant of the Lord]

Thanks k4c. You're absolutely right. It's not worth the effort.

I'll check back later though to see Crib say that the official statements from the Catholic church is commentary! lol

Have a good day =]

 

[Cribstyl]

Thanks k4c. You're absolutely right. It's not worth the effort.

I'll check back later though to see Crib say that the official statements from the Catholic church is commentary! lol

Have a good day =]

In addition to your insults, you said you could prove your argument with scripture. Nice copout Nice.....


Yea, Get behind K4c a real magician with SDA truth.

I've seen K4c this post at a SDA Revelation Campmeeting finale.......The ugly truth is, this material is the Gospel you preach, in order to convert members from other churches.

 

[Cribstyl]

Thanks k4c. You're absolutely right. It's not worth the effort.

I'll check back later though to see Crib say that the official statements from the Catholic church is commentary! lol

Have a good day =]

The joke is on you because It is commentary.
All these quotes are taken from "book-writers" and not from the Catholic Catechism.

Official quote from The Catholic Catechism
Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer - “Saturday is the Sabbath day.”
Question - “Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?”
Answer – “We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.


Most Protestants churches dont agree with Catholics traditions or Claims of being the Church. We're So, rather than you SDA post your doctrinal statements, you misrepresent the other churches. I find it a familiar pattern to I have to sift through your claim from Peter Geiermann.


After reading the Catholic Catechism.... Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment those questions and answers are not quoted in the Catechism. So I find that SDA have an agenda to misrepresent other churches.
Let the record show that the official claim from the Catholic Catechism is that the day after the sabbath (the8th day) was a new creation....

Among other statements The Catechism quotes from early church fathers, who claimed they kept Sunday not Sabbaths and not both days.

II. THE LORD'S DAY
This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103
The day of the Resurrection: the new creation 2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106 St. Justin, I Apol. 67: PG 6, 429 and 432.

Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107
Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108 St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9, 1: SCh 10, 88.

Most Protestants churches dont agree with Catholics traditions and their Claims of being the only Church, but we know their history is different from what is being present at your camp meetings.
Rather than post your doctrinal statements, you misrepresent the other churches.



I will not respond again until I get some biblcal evidence of your truth on this issue.

 

[nazar]

I don't believe you guys/girls.....

i posted a simple post, asking a simple question - and it has been turned into "people bashing each other with scripture"

the general consensus is "Jesus was talking about his assention into heaven or seated at the right hand of his father"...

Jesus said "till they see the son of man coming in his kingdom" not 'going to his kingdom' or 'seated in his kingdom'.

it suggests the coming of Christ in revelations

 

[Servant of the Lord]

lol nazar. i read your post and just started laughing. but not at you, at this thread. We have digressed as usual.

I'm just out here watching the front lines for that wily old foe Crib who's always out there pushing his Sunday agenda

Anyhow back to Matthew 16:28, yes I do believe you are right. I've always read and understood that he was referring to his second coming..

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


It'd be awesome to be alive and ready when Jesus returns! To witness his coming in the clouds on the right hand of power..and without experiencing death!! To be transformed in the "twinkling of an eye" .. what a hope we have to be living in the days of earth's history!

 

[nazar]

thanks, any ideas about "there will be some standing here that will not taste death"????

 

[Servant of the Lord]

Here is one

Gills Exposition

Verily I say unto you..... This is a strong asseveration, Christ puts his "Amen" to it; declaring it to be a certain truth, which may firmly be believed:
there be some standing here; meaning either his disciples, or some of the audience; for it is clear from Mark 8:34 that the people were called unto him with his disciples, when he said these words:
which shall not taste of death: that is, shall not die; a phrase frequently used by the Jewish doctors: they say (y),
"All the children of the world, , "taste the taste of death".''

That is, die:

till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom; which is not to be understood of his personal coming in his kingdom in the last day, when he will judge quick and dead; for it cannot be thought, that any then present should live to that time, but all tasted of death long before, as they have done; for the story of John's being alive, and to live till then, is fabulous, and grounded on a mistake which John himself has rectified at the close of his Gospel: nor of the glorious transfiguration of Christ, the account of which immediately follows; when he was seen by Peter, James, and John, persons now present; for that, at most, was but an emblem and a pledge of his future glory: rather, of the appearance of his kingdom, in greater glory and power, upon his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension to heaven; when the Spirit was poured down in an extraordinary manner, and the Gospel was preached all over the world; was confirmed by signs and wonders, and made effectual to the conversion and salvation of many souls; which many then present lived to see, and were concerned in: though it seems chiefly to have regard to his coming, to show his regal power and authority in the destruction of the Jews; when those his enemies that would not he should reign over them, were ordered to be brought and slain before him; and this the Apostle John, for one, lived to be a witness of.

 

[nazar]

Here is one

Gills Exposition
which shall not taste of death: that is, shall not die; a phrase frequently used by the Jewish doctors: they say (y),
"All the children of the world, , "taste the taste of death".''

so what you are saying is - jewish customs mean "all children ect down the line" for those standing there that day..

at the moment, i am happy for it to remain one of those mysteries that i will find out when I talk to Jesus

 

[k4c]

thanks, any ideas about "there will be some standing here that will not taste death"????

I believe the kingdom of God in the new covenant is spiritual manifiesting itself by the indwelling Spirit allowing us to experience the peace and joy of God, as well as, God's Law on the heart manifesting itself righteous living.

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Elijah represents the indwelling Spirit as seen in the still small voice and Moses represents the Law. Those who saw the kingdom coming in power were those who saw Moses and Elijah standing with Jesus in a glow symbolically representing the essence of the kingdom of God.

 

[ImperialJohn]

thanks, any ideas about "there will be some standing here that will not taste death"????

I believe it could refer to the Rapture or also the Great White Throne resurrection when the people still alive on this Earth will pass to the new Earth without experiencing physical death. The Rapture for those who believe in it will be when followers of Christ are taken up to meet Jesus in the air immediately after the tribulation begins and be converted instantly from mortal bodies to immortal. Those who are taken will later come back with Christ to teach under him, the Prophets, Apostles, and those especially chosen, of God's Laws to all nations during the millenial reign.


The Rapture

The Rapture describes the resurrection of Christians who have died in the past as well as the changing of Christians who are alive from mortal bodies to immortal bodies, all rising to meet Jesus Christ in the air. This event occurs immediately after the Antichrist confirms the peace treaty and the Tribulation begins. See Daniel 9:27 and 1 Thessalonians 4-5.


The Tribulation

The Tribulation is a seven year period of war, pandemic plagues, earthquakes, astral catastrophies, and other judgements that will wipe out 3/4's of the entire population of the World. Jesus said "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Matthew 24

The book of Daniel says the following: "and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" Daniel 12

The Tribulation period will end with the second coming of Jesus Christ.


The Second Coming of Christ

Jesus said "If I go away, I will come again". Angels at the Mount of Olives said at his ascension into heaven that he would come back to the Mount of Olives. See Acts 1:9. When Jesus comes back down to Earth, every person that has survived the Tribulation including the Jews will see him. See Revelation 1:7 and Matthew 24:27. During the Tribulation 2/3's of the Jews in Israel will have been killed and 3/4's of the inhabitants of the Earth. Jesus will lead the remnants back to Israel and establish his throne upon Mount Zion in Jerusalem to judge and rule all nations. See Rev 2:27, 12:5, 19:15 and Mathew 25:31-32.


The Millenial Reign

Jesus will reign as King of kings on Earth for a thousand years. This is mentioned in Revelation Chapter 20 numerous times. During the thousand year reign all nations will destroy all their weapons and there will be no more war. This is detailed in Isaiah 2:4. The nations leaders will be obliged to go to Jerusalem to worship Jesus and to learn of Gods Laws. Any that don't will be judged.

Solar changes during tribulation will revert the Earths ecology back to pre-flood times. People during the thousand year reign of Christ on Earth will live to be hundreds of years old. Isaiah 65:25. Satan will be bound and Gods curse on the Earth for sin will be removed. The ground will provide everything that man needs once again. The Law will be enforced and Criminals will be quickly executed. Isaiah 65:20.

The Milleial reign of Christ ends with another rebellion of the nations. The Earth and everything in it will then be burned up. See 2 Peter 3:10, Rev 20:9-11.


The Great White Throne Judgement

The saved of the millenium could live to be 1000 years old. They will then go into the new Heavens and new Earth without experiencing death. All of those raised at the Great White Throne Judgement without Jesus will go into the eternal lake of fire because their names are not written in the book of life. Those who have not known God or Jesus will be judged on their lives and their deeds and will be able to know Jesus and God and to make their choice free of Satan.


New Heaven and New Earth

Neither the present heavens (universe) or present Earth are clean in Gods sight. I believe one of the final prophecies in the Bible is that of a New Heavens and New Earth. God will create a New Heavens and a New Earth where the saved who have chosen him of their own free will because they wanted to (not because they had to) will love and worship him forever. No writing is good enough to describe the immense beauty and glory of the New Heavens and Earth for our brains to be able to visualise it. In the Bible it is described by John in Revelation 21-22.


John

 

[k4c]

I believe the kingdom of God in the new covenant is spiritual manifiesting itself by the indwelling Spirit allowing us to experience the peace and joy of God, as well as, God's Law on the heart manifesting itself righteous living.

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Elijah represents the indwelling Spirit as seen in the still small voice and Moses represents the Law. Those who saw the kingdom coming in power were those who saw Moses and Elijah standing with Jesus in a glow symbolically representing the essence of the kingdom of God.

Let me add a little more detail to establish why I believe that when Jesus said some would not taste death until they saw Him come in His kingdom He was referring to the transfiguration with Moses and Elijah on the holy mountain.

Notice how Peter was there as an eyewitness to the transfiguration.

Matthew 17:1-5 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, brought them up on a high mountain by themselves, and was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.'' While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!''

Now listen to how Peter understood the transfiguration to be the coming in power and Majesty of the Lord Jesus.

2 Peter 1:16-18 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.'' And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.