VOTE HOW MANY BELIEVE IN A PRE TRIBULATION HOPE/RAPTURE ?

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The call for all the dead to rise and stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15
Paul says it in 1 Cor 15:50=56, his prophecy about that event.

You dwell on earth and there is no scripture that says you ever leave it.

What pretentious nonsense!
Rev 4:1-2 just says how John was taken up to heaven, not bodily but in the Spirit. He did not go there to live there.

Getting desperate now, aren't you?
None of your so called proofs, say there will be a 'rapture'.

I have posted the Alternative to the rapture, which proves that all the faithful Christian peoples will live in all of the holy Land.
THAT is our destiny and our great privilege!

I am not desperate in the least. I know the truth.

There’s inference needed to see the rapture in Rev 3:10. Only “those who dwell on the earth” are subjected to the “the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.”

Do you understand that last quotation from Rev 3:10 (ESV)? The “hour of trial” will involve the whole world. The sole purpose of the “hour of trial” is to “try those who dwell on the earth.”

“Those who dwell on the earth” is a reference to unbelievers, only.

Here’s where the inference comes in: If the earth is populated only by “those who dwell on the earth,” then we are not on the earth. You see?

With Jesus doing the talking in Rev 3:10, I know from His earlier statements (John 14:2-3), that He will come back to take us to where He is. Jesus is in Heaven, and He will come back and take us to Heaven, all within the confines of Acts 1:9-11. That means He will come back, before the Trib, and take all the dead in Christ and we who are left, into Heaven, without any unbelievers able to see a thing.

Prove this inference is not valid.

 

[keras]

Prove this inference is not valid.

Anybody with a modicum of common sense and a logical viewpoint, can see your inference is not valid.

The hour of trial, involves the whole world, everyone dwells on earth, nowhere is it said that only the godless will be there when God sends His fiery wrath.
In fact; Revelation 13:7 and Daniel 7:25 prove that Gods holy people are present and they never leave the place we humans were made to live in.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Anybody with a modicum of common sense and a logical viewpoint, can see your inference is not valid.

The hour of trial, involves the whole world, everyone dwells on earth, nowhere is it said that only the godless will be there when God sends His fiery wrath.
In fact; Revelation 13:7 and Daniel 7:25 prove that Gods holy people are present and they never leave the place we humans were made to live in.

You don’t recognize the two groups in Rev 3:10: “You” is the word for believers. “Those” is the word for unbelievers. Only “those” are on the earth after the pre-Trib rapture. Many of “those” will be converted. They will all be martyrs for the two groups of the GM.

Rev 6:10 proves “those who dwell on the earth” are unbelievers. The ones crying out in that verse are converted unbelievers. They are the martyrs for the first group of the GM (Rev 6:11).

The saints in Rev 13:7 are converted unbelievers. They are martyred as the second group of the GM (Rev 6:11). They are resurrected in the last sentence of Rev 20:4. The GM is in Heaven in Rev 7:9-17.

You can’t disprove the facts above and below.

Acts 1:9-10 prove that Jesus ascended by Himself, and only in the view of believers (His disciples).

To fulfill Acts 1:11, Jesus will descend by Himself (1 Th 4:16), and He will descend into the view of believers, only (1 Th 4:17).

We will ascend to Jesus in 1 Th 4:17. But, we are first changed into our glorified bodies (1 Cor 15:52). We meet Jesus in air and go to Heaven (Rev 4:1).

 

[keras]

You don’t recognize the two groups in Rev 3:10:

No: because there is only one group; - everybody alive at that time.

We will ascend to Jesus in 1 Th 4:17. But, we are first changed into our glorified bodies (1 Cor 15:52). We meet Jesus in air and go to Heaven (Rev 4:1).

A dream so incredible that to believe it is a departure from reality.
Being committed to such a belief is one thing, but to be unable to even consider any alternative, or the possibility it won't happen, is a very unfortunate mental state.
But I know people who have renounced the rapture, by fervent prayer and intensive Bible study. God does lift the veil for those who earnestly seek the truth.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

No: because there is only one group; - everybody alive at that time.

A dream so incredible that to believe it is a departure from reality.
Being committed to such a belief is one thing, but to be unable to even consider any alternative, or the possibility it won't happen, is a very unfortunate mental state.
But I know people who have renounced the rapture, by fervent prayer and intensive Bible study. God does lift the veil for those who earnestly seek the truth.

Acts 1:9 (NIV): After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

1 Tb 4:17 (NIV): After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lordforever.

No: because there is only one group; - everybody alive at that time.

A dream so incredible that to believe it is a departure from reality.
Being committed to such a belief is one thing, but to be unable to even consider any alternative, or the possibility it won't happen, is a very unfortunate mental state.
But I know people who have renounced the rapture, by fervent prayer and intensive Bible study. God does lift the veil for those who earnestly seek the truth.

The words “you” and “those” are never used in Rev 3:10 to refer to just one group. Show me how they are.

 

[keras]

And so we will be with the Lordforever.

Jesus will be on earth for the Millennium, not in heaven, so His faithful people will be too. Rev 5:9-10

The words “you” and “those” are never used in Rev 3:10 to refer to just one group

In Rev 3:10, Jesus is talking to the Church at Philadelphia. He says: Because you have kept My Command and stood firm, I will keep you from the great ordeal which is to fall upon the world to test its inhabitants.
1/ Only one group of people referred to.
2/ That group are all those who have proved their faith and trust in the Lord.
3/ Being kept from, does not mean -removed away from.
4/ The forthcoming great ordeal, will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. We are told to; Call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved. That is: kept safe and protected during that terrible event.

Trying to make Rev 3:10 prove a rapture, is wrong and just shows the complete lack of scriptural support for that false theory.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jesus will be on earth for the Millennium, not in heaven, so His faithful people will be too. Rev 5:9-10

In Rev 3:10, Jesus is talking to the Church at Philadelphia. He says: Because you have kept My Command and stood firm, I will keep you from the great ordeal which is to fall upon the world to test its inhabitants.
1/ Only one group of people referred to.
2/ That group are all those who have proved their faith and trust in the Lord.
3/ Being kept from, does not mean -removed away from.
4/ The forthcoming great ordeal, will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. We are told to; Call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved. That is: kept safe and protected during that terrible event.

Trying to make Rev 3:10 prove a rapture, is wrong and just shows the complete lack of scriptural support for that false theory.

Here’s Rev 3:10 (ESV): Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.”

“I will keep YOU from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, TO try THOSE who dwell upon the earth.”

Rev 6:10 proves those who dwell on the earth are UNBELIEVERS:

Rev 6:10 (ESV): They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”

In Rev 3:10, only “THOSE” are referred to as “those who dwell on the earth.” “THOSE” are UNBELIEVERS.

In Rev 3:19, only “YOU” refers to BELIEVERS. We are “YOU” and we will not be on Earth during the Trib. You need to follow the wording and be honest about the two groups. Read it properly and fully and you will see the truth.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jesus will be on earth for the Millennium, not in heaven, so His faithful people will be too. Rev 5:9-10

In Rev 3:10, Jesus is talking to the Church at Philadelphia. He says: Because you have kept My Command and stood firm, I will keep you from the great ordeal which is to fall upon the world to test its inhabitants.
1/ Only one group of people referred to.
2/ That group are all those who have proved their faith and trust in the Lord.
3/ Being kept from, does not mean -removed away from.
4/ The forthcoming great ordeal, will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. We are told to; Call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved. That is: kept safe and protected during that terrible event.

Trying to make Rev 3:10 prove a rapture, is wrong and just shows the complete lack of scriptural support for that false theory.

The applicable definition of “keep from” is:

cause something to stay out of something.

Source: the meaning of keep you from - Google Search

 

[keras]

“I will keep YOU from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, TO try THOSE who dwell upon the earth.”

Rev 6:10 proves those who dwell on the earth are UNBELIEVERS:

1 Peter 4:12-13 proves you wrong.
Dear friends; do not be surprised by the fiery ordeal which has [will] come to test you. ........ it gives you a share in Christs sufferings.....

Many other verses say we must endure trials and testing to be proved worthy of a place in the Kingdom.
The false idea of an instant rapture before any kind of test, is plainly wrong and contradicts scripture.