The division in the Catholic Church (Churches)

[concretecamper]

The Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox still use anathemas, and I think the Church of the East does as well.

So does the Catholic Church. Our friend @Simon_Templar is mistaken about so many things.

 

[Simon_Templar]

The Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox still use anathemas, and I think the Church of the East does as well.

The meaning and usage of the term anathema changed over time. In the OT anathema was related to the Hebrew term cherem which meant set apart to the Lord, both in a negative sense of unholy things and in a positive sense for holy things. Cherem was used to designate things that were set aside to be destroyed as well, as in the peoples who were "put under the ban" during the conquest of Canaan.

By the time of the New Testament, the term no longer meant to devote to destruction or carried a death penalty. Paul uses it when he excommunicates the guy in Corinth. At this point it appears to have been synonymous with what we would call excommunication.

The term continued to develop and by the 8th century AD it had become a specific type of excommunication that had its own prescribed ceremony. At that time the Church designated three specific types of excommunication. Minor Excommunication which only excluded a person from the sacraments, but they could still be part of the Church community. Major Excommunication which excluded a person completely from the society of the Church. Then finally Anathema which was a major excommunication that had a more solemnity and ceremony and was performed by the Pope.

The ceremony of an Anathema involved a full liturgical rite with the Pope in full vestments and 12 assisting priests.

I don't know how the Eastern Church has practiced it since the schism, but I would generally assume that they do still practice it in some form.

 

[The Liturgist]

The ceremony of an Anathema involved a full liturgical rite with the Pope in full vestments and 12 assisting priests.

I don't know how the Eastern Church has practiced it since the schism, but I would generally assume that they do still practice it in some form.

You assume wrong. We never had a liturgy for anathematizing people. It happens automatically, but bishops can also clarify that it has happened by issuing a statement. The same is true of excommunication. For a good example, look up what happened when the neo-Nazi Matthew Heimbach joined the Antiochian Orthodox Church (who were unaware of who he was and what he believed, and who had in catechizing him taught him how the Orthodox regard ethnophyletism, which is the segregation of worshippers baased on ethnicity, as a heresy), and then began making false neo-Nazi claims about the Orthodox Church. He was excommunicated so fast I would not be surprised if his head spun on its axis at relativistic velocities.

 

[Simon_Templar]

So does the Catholic Church. Our friend @Simon_Templar is mistaken about so many things.

If I'm wrong about Anathemas you can easily prove it by showing from the current Code of Canon law where it defines Anathema's and their use.

 

[Simon_Templar]

You assume wrong. We never had a liturgy for anathematizing people. It happens automatically, but bishops can also clarify that it has happened by issuing a statement. The same is true of excommunication. For a good example, look up what happened when the neo-Nazi Matthew Heimbach joined the Antiochian Orthodox Church (who were unaware of who he was and what he believed, and who had in catechizing him taught him how the Orthodox regard ethnophyletism, which is the segregation of worshippers baased on ethnicity, as a heresy), and then began making false neo-Nazi claims about the Orthodox Church. He was excommunicated so fast I would not be surprised if his head spun on its axis at relativistic velocities.

You literally just said...

The Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox still use anathemas,

But I think you misunderstood me as well. I was not saying that I assume that the eastern Church has a liturgical rite for anathematizing someone. I was saying that I agreed with your previous statement, that anathema's exist in some form in the eastern Church, but that I don't know any details about it.

I didn't realize that you are Eastern Orthodox and I thought that you were just commenting on their practice and I was stating that I thought you were correct.

We never had a liturgy for anathematizing people

Maybe it's nitpicky, maybe you meant only since the schism, but technically this statement is historically false. The Church had such a liturgical ceremony in the 8th century, two hundred years before the Schism.

 

[The Liturgist]

Conclusion of the II Vatican Council: Joint Catholic-Orthodox declaration, approved by Pope Paul VI and Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras I of Constantinople (7 December 1965) | Paul VI

Second Vatican Council, Catholic-Orthodox Declaration

www.vatican.va

Relations have improved.

Indeed, the end of anathemas between the Roman Catholic churches and the Orthodox and the Church of the East was an enormously positive development, and the Roman church deserves some credit for helping to organize that

Rather we use anathemas against actual heretics, like Docetae, Arians, Pneumatomacchians, etc

 

[The Liturgist]

Maybe it's nitpicky, maybe you meant only since the schism, but technically this statement is historically false. The Church had such a liturgical ceremony in the 8th century, two hundred years before the Schism.

By “we” I mean the Patriarchates of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, etc, and the other autocephalous churches, such as Cyprus, Georgia, etc. and more recent autocephalous churches like the MP, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Albania, North Macedonia, Greece, the OCA, and the various autonomous churches like the UOC, the Church of Finland, the Church of Sinai, the Latvian Orthodox, Lithuanian Orthodox, the AOCNA, and of course ROCOR