Premillennialism and amillennialism

[RobertMerton]

Hi,

So throughout most of my christian walk I have been taught premilllennialism, and this is still something I believe. However I have been looking for a new church, and some of the larger protestaant denominations in my area mostly follow amillennialism.

I'm not sure if these are the right words, but basically the churches which support premillennialism have been focused on being ready for Jesus Christs' second coming and that the tribulation was near (whether they believe in the pre, mid or post tribulation rapture).

However the ones that support amillennialism believe that we are currently in the 1000 year reign and that we are just having to wait until Jesus comes back. I'm not even sure if they believe the tribulation will happen or whether it had already happened in the first centuries AD

I am after where I can get an objective reading from both of these viewpoints.
Thanks

 

[JM]

No one “follows” an eschatological position. They profess it. They believe it. One should focus on Jesus Christ and not eschatological opinions until they have matured under a godly ministry. To arrive at an eschatological conclusion before understanding the scriptures places the cart before the horse. Once we understand the Christian faith and have gained a copious sense of knowledge from the scriptures we must then allow this knowledge to influence our understanding of the end times and not our understanding of the end times to influence our theology.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[BABerean2]

Brother JM just gave you some excellent advice.

I would not divide over the millennium issue.
The following is something to consider in your search for the truth.
But above all, remember we should all be trying to find the view that best matches scripture.

...............................................................

Millennial Choice…

All of us have to make the choice of making some unit of time not "literal".

We have "hour" and "all" in John chapter 5, where Jesus seems to indicate a simultaneous bodily resurrection of both the Godly and the ungodly.
John 5:28-29.

We have the same simultaneous resurrection from Job 14:12, Daniel 12:1-3, Paul in Acts 24:15, and John in Rev. 11:18.

We have Jesus discussing the resurrection at the "last day" in John chapter 6.

Martha confirmed this understanding after the death of her brother Lazarus.

How many days come after the last day?

We can redefine all of these, from several different witnesses, and get a 1,000 year reign of Christ after His Second Coming, where sin and death continue, by making some assumptions

or we can understand that John saw the "souls" of those who died in-Christ living and reigning with Christ in heaven for a very long (1,000) time before the return of Christ. This is a reference to the length of time that the souls reign, but it does not discuss how long Christ reigns. His reign is given as forever in Rev. chapter 11.
The 1,000 year reign of Christ is an assumption, not found in the text.

If I married the Queen of England in the future, at some point in time the historians might write about how long I reigned with her.

However, that would not be the length of her reign, which would be much longer.

The "first resurrection" in Rev. 20, cannot be the first bodily resurrection, since the two witnesses are resurrected in chapter 11 and we also have a judgment of the dead at Rev. 11:18.
I have never understood how pretribbers can say this is the first bodily resurrection, since they believe in a bodily resurrection of Christians at an earlier point in time.
It makes more sense that this would be the "spiritual resurrection" of being "Born Again" found at John 5:24-25.

I have always been bothered by the idea of mortals living to a very old age, but still dying after the return of Christ.
Would Christ perform their funeral service?
Where would their souls go, since Christ is here?
If the Christians are ruling over these mortals during the 1,000 years we must do a terrible job if they rebel against Christ.
Does Christ just let Satan out of the pit and allow him to foment a rebellion, all while Christ is in control of the planet?

These questions have caused me to reject the premill position.

I also do not see things getting better, so therefore I have also discarded the postmill view.

Amill means, No Millennium, which is an unfortunate term.

In my humble opinion the 1,000 years is a symbol that represents the whole "Church Age".

I know a lot of good people who hold the classic premill position.
Some of them are nonDispensational Baptists, like Pastor Sam Adams from Florida.

This is an issue we should never divide over, since either choice we make, could be the one that is not correct.

Again, listen to all of the viewpoints and consider the one that best matches scripture, without ignoring or changing some of the text.


Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?
http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Gog

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[random person]

Just note this, the Olivet Discourse can not have any gaps inserted into it. The Olivet Discourse can not be divided into sections, of those of past fulfillment and those of future fulfillment.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all (pas #3956) these things be fulfilled. Matthew 24:34

Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all (pas #3956) these things be done. Mark 13:30

For these be the days of vengeance, that all (pas #3956) things which are written may be fulfilled. Luke 21:22

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all (pas #3956) be fulfilled. Luke 21:32

3956. pas
Strong's Concordance
pas: all, every
Original Word: πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pas
Phonetic Spelling: (pas)
Short Definition: all, the whole, every kind of
Definition: all, the whole, every kind of.
HELPS Word-studies

3956 pás – each, every; each "part(s) of a totality" (L & N, 1, 59.24).

3956 /pás ("each, every") means "all" in the sense of "each (every) part that applies." The emphasis of the total picture then is on "one piece at a time." 365 (ananeóō) then focuses on the part(s) making up the whole – viewing the whole in terms of the individual parts.

[When 3956 (pás) modifies a word with the definite article it has "extensive-intensive" force – and is straightforward intensive when the Greek definite article is lacking.]

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance:

every, all manner of

Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole -- all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

PAS #3956


And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all (kol #3605) these things shall be finished. Daniel 12:7

3605. kol
Strong's Concordance
kol: the whole, all
Original Word: כֹּל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: kol
Phonetic Spelling: (kole)
Short Definition: all
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from kalal

Definition
the whole, all

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance:

in all manner, ye, altogether, any manner, enough, every one, place, thing,

Or (Jer. 33:8) kowl {kole}; from kalal; properly, the whole; hence, all, any or every (in the singular only, but often in a plural sense) -- (in) all (manner, (ye)), altogether, any (manner), enough, every (one, place, thing), howsoever, as many as, (no-)thing, ought, whatsoever, (the) whole, whoso(-ever).


KOL #3605















The church age has no end. Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14; Luke 1:32; & Ephesians 3:21!

 

[BABerean2]

Just note this, the Olivet Discourse can not have any gaps inserted into it. The Olivet Discourse can not be divided into sections, of those of past fulfillment and those of future fulfillment.

Somebody forgot to tell Luke it could not be divided, because we find parts of it in Luke chapter17, chapter 19 and chapter 21.


Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.



The Church goes on forever. However this rotten world where sin and death continue, will not.


Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

Psa 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

And no... it did not all happen in 70 AD.

Luke put a "gap" in chapter 21.



Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
This says something shall occur after the times of the Gentiles has ended. When does the time of the Gentiles end?

(Dan_2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.)


Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;


Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.


Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Nobody saw Jesus in 70 AD. I will pretend I have never heard the comments about Him only being 5'7" tall.

Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

.

 

[random person]

Somebody forgot to tell Luke it could not be divided, because we find parts of it in Luke chapter17, chapter 19 and chapter 21.


Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Luk 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
Luk 19:42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
Luk 19:43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

LOL, I am not speaking of the scriptures, I am speaking of the all the signs, abomination of desolation, destruction of Jersusalem, the second coming, etc. Olivet Discourse has to be all fulfilled within a 40 year generation or less. It can't be partially fulfilled. THERE IS NO PARTIAL FULFILLMENT OF THE OLIVET DISCOURSE. IT IS ALL OR NOTHING.

The Church goes on forever. However this rotten world where sin and death continue, will not.

Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.

Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

Psa 102:27 But thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end.

And no... it did not all happen in 70 AD.

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13

Luke put a "gap" in chapter 21.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
This says it shall occur until the times of the Genti


Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;


Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.


Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Nobody saw Jesus in 70 AD. I will pretend I have never heard the comments about Him only being 5'7" tall.

Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

.

What gap? Luke 21:27, Jesus speaking about Daniel 7:13-14. The sign in Heaven is the Destruction of Jerusalem in that it is a confirmative sign that Christ is currently seated upon the Throne of David and has "come in the clouds", an apocalyptic expression meaning Christ came back in judgment against Israel with no literal connotations.

 

[random person]

Matthew 24:30 broken down:

1. And then shall appear the sign - Destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70, Christ's judgment.

2. of the Son of man in heaven: - Jesus is seated upon the throne of David in Heaven as per Daniel 7:13-14, and the Father has passed judgment unto the Son.

3. and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn - Destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70, Christ's judgment.

4. and they shall see (horao, it means perceive or discern or experience) the Son of man coming in the clouds - Destruction of Jerusalem A.D. 70, Christ's judgment.

5. of heaven with power and great glory. - Jesus is seated upon the Throne of David in Heaven as per Daniel 7:13-14, and the Father has passed judgment unto the Son.

 

[BABerean2]

2. of the Son of man in heaven: - Jesus is seated upon the throne of David in Heaven as per Daniel 7:13-14, and the Father has passed judgment unto the Son.

Did this being seated upon the throne wait until 70 AD to occur?

.

 

[random person]

Did this being seated upon the throne wait until 70 AD to occur?

.

Of course not, God had to fulfill all promises and the Law (including the prophets) He made to Israel before Christ judged her and brought an eternal end to the Mosaic economy.

 

[BABerean2]

Of course not, God had to fulfill all promises and the Law (including the prophets) He made to Israel before Christ judged her and brought an eternal end to the Mosaic economy.

Did Christ also judge modern Christians, such as myself, during 70 AD?

.

 

[random person]

Did Christ also judge modern Christians, such as myself, during 70 AD?

.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Hebrews 9:27

Here is one view presented by Michael Alan Nichols:

SAY WHAT? (Judgment)


M.A.Nichols 7-26-2013

How could Christ’s final judgments in 70ad apply to all of us who hadn’t even lived yet?

The answer to this question is based upon the nature of God Himself. He is eternal, sovereign, all-knowing, all-powerful, everywhere-present, and the Almighty Creator of all things. He is not limited by such a phenomenon as "time". He is not restricted in any way from being eternally and continually present throughout His endless creation.

He sees the past, the present, and the future all at once. He knows all about us before we are born-again in Christ. He also knows all about us after we are born-again and during our entire lives thereafter on this earth and beyond. He is present at every tick of the clock for eternity since the foundation of the seen and unseen worlds. There is not now nor has there ever been even one atom with its protons, neutrons, and electrons that is outside His sight and control.

God sovereignly chose the time of His second coming Parousia in the first century generation of His Apostles as the point in all of human history when His final judgments would be adjudicated and carried out for everyone.

"41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here." (Matt.12:41).

"36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things (judgments) will come upon this generation." (Matt.23:36).

"34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." (Matt.24:34).



All of His elect believers throughout history have their names written in the Book of Life and are awarded eternal life in the presence of Christ in the New Jerusalem forever.

"27 But there shall by no means enter it (New Jerusalem) anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life." (Rev.21:27).

This is the case for all born-again Christians, who are all in the body of Christ; in a spiritual, positional, and relational sense now while living as humans on earth; and it is realized in its fullest sense when believers die in this life. All reprobate non-believers throughout human history do not have their names written in the Book of Life. When they die, they are sentenced to eternal condemnation in the Lake of Fire in the unseen realm.

"15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev.20:15).

God has shown us historical examples when His judgments have been established for everyone, including those who had not yet even lived. Example: The first man, Adam, sinned and sin passed to all men throughout human history.

"12 Therefore, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned." (Rom.5:12).

Example: The Lord was crucified, buried, rose again, and ascended into the heavenly holy of holies, all in 30ad. He provided an eternal atonement for the sins of all of His elect (past, present, and future).

"24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." (Heb.9:24).

"but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself." (Heb.9:26b).

Example: Christ’s second coming Parousia in 66-70ad brought consummation of salvation for all of His elect (past, present, and future).

"28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those (first century saints) who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation." (Heb.9:28).

The first tabernacle had to be destroyed in order for His elect to finally be able to actually enter the Holiest of All presence of God in heaven. Christ accomplished this as part of His final judgments with the total destruction of the temple in His outpouring of wrath against non-believing Israel by the Roman armies in 70ad.

"8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing." (Heb.9:8).



In summary, we see that Christ’s judgments for all mankind were finished in the first century generation of His Apostles in 70ad. At that time the Lord said that the final determination of the eternal status of "unjust and filthy" or "righteous and holy" for everyone was established.

"10 And he said to me, ‘Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.’" (Rev.22:10-11).

http://www.biblepreterist.com/say-what-.html

 

[BABerean2]

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Hebrews 9:27

If the judgment is "after" death, how can the judgment be before one is born?

The article you provided sounded like it was authored by a Calvinist turned Full-Preterist.

Did Jesus leave heaven during 70 AD, or did He remain seated at the right hand of God and use the Romans under Titus to bring about the destruction of 70 AD?
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[random person]

If the judgment is "after" death, how can the judgment be before one is born?

The article you provided sounded like it was authored by a Calvinist turned Full-Preterist.

Did Jesus leave heaven during 70 AD, or did He remain seated at the right hand of God and use the Romans under Titus to bring about the destruction of 70 AD?
.

If the GWT is still a future event, whom is Christ judging? Sinners? Saints? Both? Revelation 20:13 are the dead judged twice?

Well, parousia means "presence", His kingdom came without observation in A.D. 70.

 

[BABerean2]

If the GWT is still a future event, whom is Christ judging? Sinners? Saints? Both? Revelation 20:13 are the dead judged twice?

Well, parousia means "presence", His kingdom came without observation in A.D. 70.

No. His kingdom had already come during his earthly ministry.


Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Luk_11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

It did not wait until 70 AD.
This is one of the greatest errors of Full-Preterism.

According to John 5:28-29 there is only one final judgment of the dead, in which both the just and the unjust will be bodily resurrected and judged by Christ. There are many different references to this event in scripture.

Your denial of the future bodily resurrection of all the dead is another tremendous error of Full-Preterism and is considered heretical by many Christians.


.

 

[random person]

No. His kingdom had already come during his earthly ministry.


Luk_16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Luk_11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

It did not wait until 70 AD.
This is one of the greatest errors of Full-Preterism.

According to John 5:28-29 there is only one final judgment of the dead, in which both the just and the unjust will be bodily resurrected and judged by Christ. There are many different references to this event in scripture.

Your denial of the future bodily resurrection of all the dead is another tremendous error of Full-Preterism and is considered heretical by many Christians.


.

Christ had not died yet. Christ had not ascended and been innaugerated as King yet. Christ had been glorified yet, he was still a humble preacher from Galilee.

Yes, Christ preached that the kingdom of God was near (is at hand), but that the Messianic age was still future yet. The age yet to come.

When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Luke 21:30-32

Christ told his disciples that some standing there would not taste death until they "seen" Christ return with great power and glory. The Kingdom of God ruled by Christ the king returned in A.D. 70, the parousia (presence).

The only reason you believe in a physical bodily resurrection is because you erroneously believe Adam and Eve (the substance of dust) were once immortal not requiring fruit of the "Tree of Life".

 

[BABerean2]

Christ had not died yet. Christ had not ascended and been innaugerated as King yet. Christ had been glorified yet, he was still a humble preacher from Galilee.

Yes, Christ preached that the kingdom of God was near (is at hand), but that the Messianic age was still future yet. The age yet to come.

When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Luke 21:30-32

Christ told his disciples that some standing there would not taste death until they "seen" Christ return with great power and glory. The Kingdom of God ruled by Christ the king returned in A.D. 70, the parousia (presence).

The only reason you believe in a physical bodily resurrection is because you erroneously believe Adam and Eve (the substance of dust) were once immortal not requiring fruit of the "Tree of Life".

He was not just a humble preacher from Galilee. He had already been anointed as the Messiah by His Father from heaven, after His cousin John had put Him under the waters of the Jordan River.

He had been announced as the Son of God, not just a humble preacher.


Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

You are attempting to ignore what is plainly written in the text to make it all fit your 70 AD narrative.

Luk_11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.


I believe in the resurrection of the body, because it is clearly taught throughout the New Testament.

After His resurrection Jesus ate food and the Apostles could touch Him. The only manmade thing in heaven is scars, because His body still contains the nail prints and the mark made by the sword that pierced His side.

His body was resurrected from the dead, just as He had resurrected Lazarus.

The body of Lazarus had already begun to rot and smelled of the dead.
Jesus had the power to turn back the hands of time and turn the corruptible body of Lazarus back to life.

He has the power to do the same for each of us.
This is one of the foundations of our faith and is the main reason that many consider Full-Preterism to be heretical.


1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This did not occur in 70 AD when the Roman's under Titus destroyed Jerusalem, as the Babylonians had done many years before.


You also insist that the earth will go on forever in it's present form, but God's Word says otherwise.



Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.


Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

Even secular astronomers tell us that one day the sun will become a Red Giant and vaporize all life on this planet.

Therefore, we see again that Full-Preterism does not work.
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[random person]

He was not just a humble preacher from Galilee. He had already been anointed as the Messiah by His Father from heaven, after His cousin John had put Him under the waters of the Jordan River.

He had been announced as the Son of God, not just a humble preacher.


Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

You are attempting to ignore what is plainly written in the text to make it all fit your 70 AD narrative.

Luk_11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Yet Christ made himself lower than the angels. Though He was rich He became poor and humble rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
He did not come to be served, but to serve.

I believe in the resurrection of the body, because it is clearly taught throughout the New Testament.

After His resurrection Jesus ate food and the Apostles could touch Him. The only manmade thing in heaven is scars, because His body still contains the nail prints and the mark made by the sword that pierced His side.

His body was resurrected from the dead, just as He had resurrected Lazarus.

The body of Lazarus had already begun to rot and smelled of the dead.
Jesus had the power to turn back the hands of time and turn the corruptible body of Lazarus back to life.

He has the power to do the same for each of us.
This is one of the foundations of our faith and is the main reason that many consider Full-Preterism to be heretical.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This did not occur in 70 AD when the Roman's under Titus destroyed Jerusalem, as the Babylonians had done many years before.

Yes, they broke the Mosaic Law and God expelled them from the land but also regathered them as promised after 70 year captivity. It was not the end of the Jewish age, and the beginning of the Messianic age, that Christ would come and die for the sins of the world.

You also insist that the earth will go on forever in it's present form, but God's Word says otherwise.

Psa 102:25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.


Psa 102:26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

Even secular astronomers tell us that one day the sun will become a Red Giant and vaporize all life on this planet.

Therefore, we see again that Full-Preterism does not work.
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No it doesn't

And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. Genesis 8:21

Please note, he doesn't mention any thing about water nor fire.

One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever. Ecclesiastes 1:4

 

[toLiJC]

Hi,

So throughout most of my christian walk I have been taught premilllennialism, and this is still something I believe. However I have been looking for a new church, and some of the larger protestaant denominations in my area mostly follow amillennialism.

I'm not sure if these are the right words, but basically the churches which support premillennialism have been focused on being ready for Jesus Christs' second coming and that the tribulation was near (whether they believe in the pre, mid or post tribulation rapture).

However the ones that support amillennialism believe that we are currently in the 1000 year reign and that we are just having to wait until Jesus comes back. I'm not even sure if they believe the tribulation will happen or whether it had already happened in the first centuries AD

I am after where I can get an objective reading from both of these viewpoints.
Thanks

unfortunately there have been many speculations in the faith, that is why one of the main Holy principles of (the) faith is not to believe in a thing that is uncertain, but to set it aside at least until there comes a full confidence (from the true Lord God) that it is true, then the right exercise of (the) faith is anyway of primary importance, because the spiritual path of the believer/worshiper through the unknown to the Holy destination, which is the heavenly will's perfect indulgence, is ever dependent on That Who really is the true Lord God, so the best way in this regard for the believer/worshiper is to be careful not to believe in anything uncertain, but to set the uncertain aside, (at least) tentatively/for a start, because from where to know what will be tomorrow if there is no trusted revelation about it coming from the true Lord God?!

Blessings

 

[owly]

Robert,

Kim Riddlebarger has an audio series on Amilennialism on his site, which I'd recommend from that position.

 

[BABerean2]

The book by Pastor Sam Storms "Kingdom Come" will also be very helpful.

He once held the premill position and also graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary.

Therefore he knows both viewpoints.

Check out the following article by Anthony Hoekema.
It is the best summary I have seen.

http://www.the-highway.com/amilc_Hoekema.html

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