Zionism, Messianists, and Dispensationalism

[notreligus]

I don't post here all that regularly but I have stated before that I once was convinced that Full Dispensationalism, as taught by Chafer and others, was the correct position. When a Full Dispensational (aka Mid-Acts) began teaching that Israel and the Church were separated for eternity, I knew that I had been exposed to a great heresy and had nearly fallen for it. I was taught this stuff for about fourteen years and bought the recommended books, etc. There is no such thing taught in all of Scriptures and all anyone can do is post some Scripture and tell you that's what it means, and they would not be right but just shooting from the hip due to a lack of wisdom when it comes to Who Christ is, What He did, and Why He did it.

Many may have read that Dispensationalism, in general, is a byproduct of Zionism and if you've read that you've probably also read denials of that. You've also heard that anyone who does not divide the Body and separate the Body into two separate entities - a nation called Israel and the Church - is practicing Replacement Theology. There is no such thing but if there were God Himself is the author. In Christ, one new man, the Body of Christ, has been created. Everyone has to come to the Father by way of Christ. That's the only way, and that began at the cross and no particular group of people, namely "Israel," has been given a reprieve. Again, someone can post Scripture and say "it means this or that" but that's all they've got. You must read Scripture in its entirety. God's plan has been, from the beginning, to have a relationship with mankind. Man blew it in Eden. Since then mankind has been in need of reconciliation. Christ reconciled mankind and through Christ our relationship has been restored. We are not yet perfected and that is why we need His intercession on our behalf. Our right relationship with Him will be fully consummated when we Believers are with Christ in the New Jerusalem.

What is a Messianist? These are Jews who are opposed to the Zionist position. There are many of them. Perhaps the majority of Jews are opposed to Zionism, or at least the Reformed Jews. These Jews believe that God wanted them to reach the world with their monotheistic beliefs and their beliefs that Judaism is a sensible and reasonable voice of reason in the world. The believe that the nation of Israel is Messiah. They are not content that Israel be limited to a tiny Middle Eastern Nation and they also feel that Zionism breeds hatred for Jews, in general. Look up Zionism and anti-Zionists and you will find that many of the anti-Zionist web sites are run by Jews. The Zionist preacher and president of Christians United For Israel, claims that God has two covenants and that we should not evangelize the Jews for a Torah-observant Jew is saved. This fits right in with the message of the Messianics who believe that Judaism should have carried-over into the Church. They believe as I do that the New Covenant is now, but they believe it is for Israel, and not the Church. (Talk about Reverse Replacement Theology!). A read of the Book of Hebrews along with a belief that it is truly the Word of God would prove to anyone who will read it rightly that the purpose of the Book of Hebrews was to admonish the Jews who had supposedly converted to Christianity but they kept going back into Judaism. That is why the writer was critical of their forsaking fellowship with other Believers as instead they were letting Judaism and the Law creep back in. Judaizers are active in the Church today. They are the same as the ones who opposed the Apostle Paul and they seemingly unknowingly are repeating the same offenses today. It's no wonder that this occurs when we've got people shouting from the housetops that "the Book of Hebrews is for the Jews and not for the Church." That is not true and that's as nice as I could state that.

 

[Davesnothere]

Good afternoon,

Everyone has to come to the Father by way of Christ. That's the only way, and that began at the cross and no particular group of people, namely "Israel," has been given a reprieve. Again, someone can post Scripture and say "it means this or that" but that's all they've got.

Question... Do you realize that Dispensationalism teaches that Israel will be saved by accepting Jesus as the Messiah?

Since you were a Dispensationalist, and read all the recommended books, I would assume you are aware... So why write the above?

Kind regards,
Dave

 

[Biblewriter]

Actually all the main tenants of Dispensationalism were taught in the very early years of the church, long before Preterism was even invented, and long before anyone advanced Amillennialism in writing. But that only a side note.

But, even as Covenant Theology was systematized as a formal doctrine until the sixteenth century, Dispensationalism was never formalized as a doctrine before the nineteenth century.

But this (relatively) modern formalization of Dispensationalism most definitely did not flow out of Zionism, but out of a realization that the scriptures explicitly say that Israel will be restored as a nation.

J. N. Darby, the man who first formalized Dispensationalism as a distinct doctrine, said that once he saw the restoration of Israel in the scriptures, Dispensationalism literally leaped off the pages of his Bible.

 

[Biblewriter]

It is a total error to imagine that Dispensationalism teaches that anyone can ever be saved without a true faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

We believe, because the Bible explicitly says, that when all Israel is finally brought back to her ancient homeland, the Lord will purge out all the rebels from among them, and that all the rest of them will repent with bitter weeping.

I have heard that one teacher who calls himself says that Jews can be saved without faith in Christ. (Although I have never heard him say this.) But every teacher of repute among Dispensationalists would condemn that as heresy, and a total departure from real Dispensational doctrine.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Actually all the main tenants of Dispensationalism were taught in the very early years of the church, long before Preterism was even invented, and long before anyone advanced Amillennialism in writing. But that only a side note.

But, even as Covenant Theology was systematized as a formal doctrine until the sixteenth century, Dispensationalism was never formalized as a doctrine before the nineteenth century.

But this (relatively) modern formalization of Dispensationalism most definitely did not flow out of Zionism, but out of a realization that the scriptures explicitly say that Israel will be restored as a nation.

J. N. Darby, the man who first formalized Dispensationalism as a distinct doctrine, said that once he saw the restoration of Israel in the scriptures, Dispensationalism literally leaped off the pages of his Bible.

Everything you ever wanted to know about Dispensationalism but were afraid to ask....and for good reason!

Dispensationalism

Evaluating Premillennialism

No evaluation of Dispensational Premillennialism may ignore its teaching of a two-phased return of Christ, the first phase of which is commonly known as the rapture. This feature is its most widely known aspect. Popularized by such best-selling books as Hal Lindsey’s The Late Great Planet Earth, the film The Return,

.........Dispensationalism has a pervasive influence not only extensively, but also intensively. It is usually the case that those who embrace its teachings as a system are affected in almost every area of their theological thinking. So pervasive is its effect on those who have become its pupils, that even those who have come to see the error of its basic presuppositions testify that dispensational cobwebs have remained in their thinking for a long time after the initial sweeping took place. My own experience bears witness to the truth of what I say.............



.

 

[Dispy]

I don't post here all that regularly but I have stated before that I once was convinced that Full Dispensationalism, as taught by Chafer and others, was the correct position. When a Full Dispensational (aka Mid-Acts) began teaching that Israel and the Church were separated for eternity, I knew that I had been exposed to a great heresy and had nearly fallen for it. I was taught this stuff for about fourteen years and bought the recommended books, etc. There is no such thing taught in all of Scriptures and all anyone can do is post some Scripture and tell you that's what it means, and they would not be right but just shooting from the hip due to a lack of wisdom when it comes to Who Christ is, What He did, and Why He did it.

Many may have read that Dispensationalism, in general, is a byproduct of Zionism and if you've read that you've probably also read denials of that. You've also heard that anyone who does not divide the Body and separate the Body into two separate entities - a nation called Israel and the Church - is practicing Replacement Theology. There is no such thing but if there were God Himself is the author. In Christ, one new man, the Body of Christ, has been created. Everyone has to come to the Father by way of Christ. That's the only way, and that began at the cross and no particular group of people, namely "Israel," has been given a reprieve. Again, someone can post Scripture and say "it means this or that" but that's all they've got. You must read Scripture in its entirety. God's plan has been, from the beginning, to have a relationship with mankind. Man blew it in Eden. Since then mankind has been in need of reconciliation. Christ reconciled mankind and through Christ our relationship has been restored. We are not yet perfected and that is why we need His intercession on our behalf. Our right relationship with Him will be fully consummated when we Believers are with Christ in the New Jerusalem.

I agree with Bible writer when he says: "But this (relatively) modern formalization of Dispensationalism most definitely did not flow out of Zionism, but out of a realization that the scriptures explicitly say that Israel will be restored as a nation."

The Apostle Paul was a dispensationalist. In Eph. 2 alone he speaks of three dispensations: In vss. 11, 13 he speaks of "TIMES PAST", how things used to be.

"BUT NOW" in vs. 13 speaks of how things are presently.

In vs. 7 he speaks of "IN AGES TO COME". The fulfillment of all things.

The problem I see with most denominations is that they cannot separate "prophesy" as it pertains to the nation of Israel, from "the mystery", which was kept secret since the world began, until revealed to the Apostle Paul. They teach is as one and the same, and each has its own formula (receipt) as how to mix the two.

IMHO, denominationalism is the doctrine of men.