Zechariah the Prophet

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Zechariah 2:1-5 I looked and saw a man measuring Jerusalem. It will be a city without walls because of the great number of people and livestock within it. The Lord says; I, Myself will be a wall of fire around it and a Glorious Presence within it. Isaiah 4:4-6
Although it has usually been assumed that these verses apply to the Millennium period; a careful study of the context and matching passages, especially Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 and Ezekiel 38:8 & 11, shows that all this will happen before the Return of Jesus.


Zechariah 2:6-9 Come away, flee from the land of the North, flee from your dispersion around the world. The Lord says: Escape from Babylon, you people of Zion. My mission is to speak out against those nations that have plundered you, that ‘have touched the apple of His eye’. He will surely raise His hand against them and their former slaves will plunder them.
As soon as the time period decreed for the exile of Israel [2730 years] and Judah [1960 years] is completed, the Lord will call them out of Babylon. [1st Exodus: Egypt, 2nd Exodus: “Babylon” is a metaphor for all the godless nations.] He will punish those who caused trouble to His people and they will take goods and treasure back to the Land with them. Exodus 12:35-36


Zechariah 2:10-12 Shout and be glad, people of Zion, for the Lord is coming and He will dwell among you. Many nations will give their allegiance to Him on that Day and you will know that I have brought His message to you. He will claim the portion of Judah in the Holy Land and will again make Jerusalem His city.

The Lord is coming, He will dwell among you’. This will happen first with the Shekinah glory in the new Temple, Ezekiel 43:1-4, then later, at the Return of Jesus.

Many nations’, not the whole world, as it will be after the Return. Revelation 15:4

Jerusalem, His city’, This will be completely fulfilled at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-4


Zechariah 2:13 Let all mortals be silent, because the Lord has roused Himself and come down from His holy dwelling place. Isaiah 28:21
This refers to the next prophesied event – the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, a worldwide judgement of fire against His enemies. The Sixth Seal, Revelation 6:12-17

Zechariah 3:9-10 In a single Day, I will wipe away the guilt of this Land. On that Day, you will call everyone your neighbor, under the vine and under the fig tree.
Israel – the vine, Judah – the fig tree, rejoined at last. Ezekiel 37:15-23, Isaiah 5:7

This time, the Lord will help His people by destroying their enemies in a single Day. From this and other prophecies, we know that this will be done by a Coronal Mass Ejection, an earth directed explosion of the suns surface.

Jeremiah 25:30-31 The Lord roars from on high, from His dwelling place, against all the inhabitants of the Land. The noise reaches the ends of the earth as He brings judgement against all the nations and the wicked peoples will be killed.
Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.
 

Brian Mcnamee

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2017
2,308
1,294
64
usa
✟213,965.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hi so the LORD is a wall to them and then in Zech 14 the day the LORD returns we see that Jerusalem is being over run and 1/2 city is taken captive as the women are being ravished and the then the LORD comes with His saints. In Jer 31 we see a small hint to the end of Jacobs trouble which is introduced in chapter 30
38 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The surveyor’s line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever.”

So we see in Rev the armies of anitchrist and the other kings defeated at the 2nd coming and then 1000 years of peace and after the 1000 years Satan is loosed and gathers an army and surrounds the city and then fire comes down from heaven and that is it.

I do see Zech 12 as future too but if the LORD is a wall HE does not hold them out in Zech 14. It seems that from the end of 14 we see a permanent change.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,683
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,689.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Zechariah 2:1-5 I looked and saw a man measuring Jerusalem. It will be a city without walls because of the great number of people and livestock within it. The Lord says; I, Myself will be a wall of fire around it and a Glorious Presence within it. Isaiah 4:4-6
Although it has usually been assumed that these verses apply to the Millennium period; a careful study of the context and matching passages, especially Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 and Ezekiel 38:8 & 11, shows that all this will happen before the Return of Jesus.
Seems to refer to God's defense of Jerusalem when Gog/Magog (Ezekiel 38) invades Israel, but is kept from ever entering Jerusalem.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Seems to refer to God's defense of Jerusalem when Gog/Magog (Ezekiel 38) invades Israel, but is kept from ever entering Jerusalem.
Bang on!
Zechariah 2:1-5 does refer to how the Lord will protect His people when Gog/Magog attacks them. Joel 2:20 as well.

Now people just need to understand who those people are that the Lord protects and how they came to be there.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Zechariah 8:2-23 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for My holy Land, I am burning with jealousy for her. This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.

This is what the Lord Almighty says; Once again old people and children will inhabit the streets of Jerusalem. Even if this may seem impossible to the remnant of this nation, will it be impossible for Me?

I am about to rescue My people from countries in the East and West and bring them back to live in Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God, in faithfulness and justice.

These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; Take heart, all you who now hear that the Temple is to be rebuilt as the prophets foretold. Before that time, there was no hiring of man or beast, because of your enemies, for I had set every man against his neighbor. But, I do not feel the same toward the remnant of this people as I did in former days, says the Lord of Hosts. For they will sow in safety, I will give them rain and the Land will yield it’s produce. This is the inheritance of My people. To the nations you, House of Judah and House of Israel, have become as a curse; now I shall save you – you will become proverbial as a blessing. Courage, do not lose heart!

These are the words of the Lord; Just as I determined to bring disaster on you when your forefathers made Me angry, so I have resolved to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid. This is what you must do; speak the truth to each other and administer true justice in your courts. Do not plot evil and do not love perjury, for all these I hate. This is the word of the Lord.

These are the words of the Lord; Keep the fasts of the 4th, 5th, 7th and 10th months. They will be festivals of joy for Judah. Love truth and peace. In future, nations and peoples will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favor of the Lord. In those days, 10 people from every nation will take hold of a Jew and say; Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.
Ref; REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.


‘I am about to rescue My people…they will be My people and I will be their God’. We know from New Testament teaching, that the Lord’s people are every true Christian person, Jew or Gentile. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Rev 5:9-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16 Now I shall take thought for My sheep…I will rescue them from wherever they are scattered in the Day of cloud and darkness. I shall bring them home, to their own Land and make them prosper. Isaiah 60:4, Jeremiah 31:1-6, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:14

‘the Day of cloud and darkness’, is the Day of the Lord’s wrath, a CME sunstrike that will de-populate the entire holy Land area, also causing worldwide devastation. Isaiah 30:25-30

I have set every man against his neighbor’. This is the current situation in the Middle East.

‘Courage, do not lose heart’. This proves that we must pass through the terrible testing and trials of the forthcoming Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. A literal Day of fire from the sky, of earthquakes, storm winds and tsunamis. It will be a period of ‘cloud and darkness’, from the smoke and ash clouds that will envelope the earth. Zephaniah 1:15, Matthew 24:29,Joel 2:1-2

Peoples will come to Jerusalem to worship the Lord, in the new Temple’. From the context of this quote and from other prophesies, it is clear that this will happen before the Return of Jesus for His Millennial, worldwide reign. Ezekiel 43:4…the Shekinah Glory of God will come into the Temple by the East gate.
And even though verse 23 mentions a Jew, as one who enjoys the Lord’s favor, we know from verse 13 and many other prophesies that Christians from every nation and language, Isaiah 56:1-8, will become citizens of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, the new nation formed after the judgement/punishment of fire has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 1:2-15
 
Upvote 0

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,838
294
Taylors
✟84,420.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Zechariah 8:2-23 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for My holy Land, I am burning with jealousy for her. This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.

This is what the Lord Almighty says; Once again old people and children will inhabit the streets of Jerusalem. Even if this may seem impossible to the remnant of this nation, will it be impossible for Me?

I am about to rescue My people from countries in the East and West and bring them back to live in Jerusalem. They will be My people and I shall be their God, in faithfulness and justice.

These are the words of the Lord of Hosts; Take heart, all you who now hear that the Temple is to be rebuilt as the prophets foretold. Before that time, there was no hiring of man or beast, because of your enemies, for I had set every man against his neighbor. But, I do not feel the same toward the remnant of this people as I did in former days, says the Lord of Hosts. For they will sow in safety, I will give them rain and the Land will yield it’s produce. This is the inheritance of My people. To the nations you, House of Judah and House of Israel, have become as a curse; now I shall save you – you will become proverbial as a blessing. Courage, do not lose heart!

These are the words of the Lord; Just as I determined to bring disaster on you when your forefathers made Me angry, so I have resolved to do good again to Jerusalem and Judah. Do not be afraid. This is what you must do; speak the truth to each other and administer true justice in your courts. Do not plot evil and do not love perjury, for all these I hate. This is the word of the Lord.

These are the words of the Lord; Keep the fasts of the 4th, 5th, 7th and 10th months. They will be festivals of joy for Judah. Love truth and peace. In future, nations and peoples will come to Jerusalem to entreat the favor of the Lord. In those days, 10 people from every nation will take hold of a Jew and say; Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.
Ref; REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.


‘I am about to rescue My people…they will be My people and I will be their God’. We know from New Testament teaching, that the Lord’s people are every true Christian person, Jew or Gentile. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Rev 5:9-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16 Now I shall take thought for My sheep…I will rescue them from wherever they are scattered in the Day of cloud and darkness. I shall bring them home, to their own Land and make them prosper. Isaiah 60:4, Jeremiah 31:1-6, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:14

Post-exilic return period. Already fulfilled.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,838
294
Taylors
✟84,420.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I do see Zech 12 as future too but if the LORD is a wall HE does not hold them out in Zech 14. It seems that from the end of 14 we see a permanent change.

Zechariah 12 through the first part of Zechariah 14 was fulfilled when there were still tribes extant. Not since AD 70 has that been a reality, since God planned for the extinction of the Jewish tribes at that time.

There is real significance in the 4 particular families highlighted that would be mourning as Jerusalem was being torn down in AD 70: the family of Nathan, the family of David, the family of Levi, and the family of Shimei.

Nathan and David's family mourning was due to their realization that the royal, genetic line was being cut down, and that the "lawgiver" tribe of Judah was not needed anymore, since "Shiloh" had come (in fulfillment of Genesis 49:10). Christ was underscoring the fact to them that He alone had already been established as the "King of kings and Lord of lords".

Levi's tribe would be mourning because they would see their role as the high priesthood leadership was also not needed anymore. They were finally realizing that they had lost their job with that "change in the law" establishing Christ as the ultimate High Priest over all nations (Hebrews 7:12).

Shimei's family were descendants of the Gershonites: a family who had once been given the honorable task, in Israel's wilderness wanderings, of transporting all the curtains, draperies and hangings, skins of the coverings, and the cords that connected them all together to form the walls of the tabernacle (Numbers 4:22-26). They were mourning due to their realization that they, too, had lost their job, since a physical temple structure was no longer needed. God was making evident to them that He was the foundation of the True Temple made with "living stones" which had replaced the physical walls of the Old Temple.

You are correct that the Zechariah 14 end of the chapter speaks of a permanent change - a period which we are currently in, awaiting the last resurrection to be fulfilled in the time of year the Feast of Tabernacles would have ordinarily been celebrated.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
You are correct that the Zechariah 14 end of the chapter speaks of a permanent change - a period which we are currently in, awaiting the last resurrection to be fulfilled in the time of year the Feast of Tabernacles would have ordinarily been celebrated.
Your preterist notions have led you astray.
Are we living in the time of Zechariah 14? Not that I noticed.
When did Jesus come down and split the Mount of Olives? Do the nations go up to worship Him every year?

The Prophesies of Zechariah still await fulfilment and those who can't see it, will be shocked and surprised as what we are plainly told, comes to pass.
 
Upvote 0

Brian Mcnamee

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2017
2,308
1,294
64
usa
✟213,965.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Zechariah 12 through the first part of Zechariah 14 was fulfilled when there were still tribes extant. Not since AD 70 has that been a reality, since God planned for their extinction at that time.

There is real significance in the 4 particular families highlighted that would be mourning as Jerusalem was being torn down in AD 70: the family of Nathan, the family of David, the family of Levi, and the family of Shimei.

Nathan and David's family mourning was due to their realization that the royal, genetic line was being cut down, and that the "lawgiver" tribe of Judah was not needed anymore, since "Shiloh" had come (in fulfillment of Genesis 49:10). Christ was underscoring the fact to them that He alone had already been established as the "King of kings and Lord of lords".

Levi's tribe would be mourning because they would see their role as the high priesthood leadership was also not needed anymore. They were finally realizing that they had lost their job with that "change in the law" establishing Christ as the ultimate High Priest over all nations (Hebrews 7:12).

Shimei's family were descendants of the Gershonites: a family who had once been given the honorable task, in Israel's wilderness wanderings, of transporting all the curtains, draperies and hangings, skins of the coverings, and the cords that connected them all together to form the walls of the tabernacle (Numbers 4:22-26). They were mourning due to their realization that they, too, had lost their job, since a physical temple structure was no longer needed. God was making evident to them that He was the foundation of the True Temple made with "living stones" which had replaced the physical walls of the Old Temple.

You are correct that the Zechariah 14 end of the chapter speaks of a permanent change - a period which we are currently in, awaiting the last resurrection to be fulfilled in the time of year the Feast of Tabernacles would have ordinarily been celebrated.


you are free to believe what you like but a literal interpretation of Zech 14 shows the day of the 2nd coming and the kingdom being established on earth as Rev shows the kingdoms of this earth become the kingdoms of the LORD and His Christ and He shall rule forever and ever. This day the topography undergoes a major change in Jerusalem and life is continuing after the LORD is now king. This river created flows east with one branch which would bring it to the dead sea which Ezekiel 47 notes will be healed and become a prosperous fishing area. At this same time the 12 tribes of Israel gain their inheritance by lot in the known borders of Israel.

This is future and it is supported by Luke 1 which details the ministry of Jesus.
Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

Jesus is not reigning until this day and he will keep the oaths, promises, covenants and prophecies to fulfill this destiny. There are hundreds of verses that show the before and after picture and the 2nd coming is the line where the kingdom comes and things are different from that point on.

Yes there is a spiritual kingdom too and you must be born again to inherit eternal life. These truths are not mutually exclusive they are going to happen exactly as written.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: keras
Upvote 0

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,838
294
Taylors
✟84,420.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
you are free to believe what you like but a literal interpretation of Zech 14 shows the day of the 2nd coming and the kingdom being established on earth as Rev shows the kingdoms of this earth become the kingdoms of the LORD and His Christ and He shall rule forever and ever.

Yes, I agree, Zechariah 14 WAS speaking of the second coming...that took place in AD 70. When the returning Christ eradicated the entire Satanic realm at that time, (as prophesied), He confiscated all those kingdoms of the world from Satan, the "prince of this world", resulting in His wearing those "many crowns" in Revelation 19:12.

That is exactly what is pictured in Daniel 2:35 with the stone striking the feet of Daniel's statue, and breaking the entire statue into pieces all at once, the pieces of which were all together carried away like chaff in the wind. Christ's kingdom has been incrementally growing in size since AD 70, (minus the Satanic realm), and will eventually become a great mountain that "fills the whole earth".

This river created flows east with one branch which would bring it to the dead sea which Ezekiel 47 notes will be healed and become a prosperous fishing area. At this same time the 12 tribes of Israel gain their inheritance by lot in the known borders of Israel.

This is future and it is supported by Luke 1 which details the ministry of Jesus.

No, this Ezekiel Temple was a PAST fulfillment in the post-exilic return, when Ezekiel's Temple plans were begun and completed under Zerubbabel's hands (Zech. 4:9). We know this Temple was built according to those "blueprints", because Ezra 6:14 says of the elders of the Jews that "...they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel, and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia. And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king."

That Ezekiel Temple's high priesthood was strictly limited in the post-exilic return to ONLY the family of Zadok as high priests (which Joshua son of Josedech could prove). This is not even possible for a Temple today to have a high priest with an unbroken, proven family lineage all the way back to Zadok. God "changed the law" of that high priesthood forever, with the inauguration of Christ as a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:12). God has never, and will never revert back to the Old Covenant high priesthood again. Those tribal divisions of the land in Ezekiel were accomplished back in the post-exilic return era. This has become an already-fulfilled promise that God made good on back then.

Jesus is not reigning until this day

On the day of Pentecost, Peter announced that Jesus was already reigning in heaven in Acts 2:30-36. God HAD MADE that same Jesus whom they had crucified both Lord and Christ, and He had already been "exalted" at God's right hand at that point.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Zechariah 14 WAS speaking of the second coming...that took place in AD 70. When the returning Christ eradicated the entire Satanic realm at that time,
Your beliefs are full preterism, which is not allowed on this forum.

You are easily proved wrong, one of the ways is that although Jerusalem was conquered in 70 AD, the final dispersion of the Jews was not until 135 AD.
Satanic realm eradicated? What motivates serial killers, then?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,838
294
Taylors
✟84,420.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Your beliefs are full preterism, which is not allowed on this forum.

That's odd, because the Full Preterists that I used to constantly refute on one of their websites didn't think I fit in there at all. They called me a Futurist, because I am a HUGE supporter of the bodily resurrection taught in scripture - not just one, but THREE of these group events, with the last one coming in our distant future. I have found that not many Full Preterist at all teach that the Satanic realm is eradicated. You would think so, but they don't. They also do NOT support a literal 1,000 year millennium ending in AD 33 at the First Resurrection of Jesus and the Matt. 27 saints, as I believe scripture teaches. They don't believe in a rapture, as scripture describes the resurrected saints bodily leaving this world with Christ to return to heaven. I believe this rapture of only resurrected saints was already fulfilled in AD 70. Plenty of disagreements between the Full Preterist camp and myself.

You are easily proved wrong, one of the ways is that although Jerusalem was conquered in 70 AD, the final dispersion of the Jews was not until 135 AD.

The Temple itself was the heart and soul of the Jewish nation. Once that "sanctuary of strength" (as Daniel called it) was torn down, their "power" was shattered. Even the Romans considered the conquering of the city and the Temple in AD 70 to be the victory over the nation of Israel, or they would not have arranged a "triumph" in the streets of Rome, parading the captives, loot from the Temple, and the titular "King" of the Jews, Simon bar Gioras, who was given a traitor's execution in Rome.

Satanic realm eradicated? What motivates serial killers, then?
The same "desperately wicked" motivation that lurks in every human heart to commit evil (Jer. 17:9). Satan may have gotten the ball of evil rolling back in the Garden of Eden, but mankind has been kicking that ball down the road themselves with just as much energy ever since. The only difference is that humanity's sin is much more egregious than Satan's ever was, since we are sinning against grace offered to humankind, and the fallen angels did not have redemption extended to their kind.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Post-exilic return period. Already fulfilled.
This has not yet happened:
Zechariah 8:2-23 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for My holy Land, I am burning with jealousy for her. This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.
I believe this rapture of only resurrected saints was already fulfilled in AD 70.
Just one of your unbiblical notions. Nowhere to be found in the Bible.
Matthew 27:52-53 was not a resurrection to immortality and and 'many' of the OT saints, in the relatively small city of Jerusalem at that time, would be a hundred at the most.

What about actually addressing the Prophet Zechariah with scriptural refutations? Opinion doesn't count.
 
Upvote 0

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,838
294
Taylors
✟84,420.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
This has not yet happened:
Zechariah 8:2-23 Again, the word of the Lord came to me; I am very jealous for My holy Land, I am burning with jealousy for her. This is what the Lord says; I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem, it will be called the City of Faithfulness and the Temple mount will be called the Holy Mountain.

Well, yes, it has happened. We have evidence of God "dwelling in Jerusalem" during the post-exilic return in Haggai 1:13, "Then spake Haggai the LORD's messenger in the LORD's message unto the people, saying, I am with you, saith the LORD."

Another follows in Haggai 2:4-5, with God telling the people at Jerusalem who were building the Temple, "Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the LORD; and be strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech, the high priest; and be strong, all ye people of the land, saith the LORD, and work: for I am with you, saith the LORD of hosts: According to the word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, so my spirit remaineth among you: fear ye not."

Zechariah 8:2 spoke of the Temple mount being called the "HOLY Mountain". When God was giving instruction for the building of this Temple in Ezekiel 40-48, He said of the Temple in Ezekiel 42:12, "This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house." We know that the building of this Ezekiel Temple was finished during the post-exilic return, because Ezra 6:14 says "...and they builded, and finished it, according to the commandment of the God of Israel," (using Ezekiel's plans in Ez. 44-48) "and according to the commandment of Cyrus, and Darius, and Artaxerxes king of Persia. And this house was finished on the third day of the month Adar, which was in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king."

Once the gates and the wall were built encircling this Temple in Nehemiah's day, the gates, the wall, and the people were all purified in Nehemiah 12:30, and they had a dedication ceremony in Jerusalem. "From the day that it shall be finished", Ezekiel 48:35 said, "the name of the city from that day shall be 'The Lord is there'." (Or "Jehovah shammah"). That is the fulfillment of the Lord "returning to Zion and dwelling in Jerusalem" in that post-exilic return period. God fulfilled His word in Zechariah 8:2-23 to the letter in those days. And there was great joy among the people because of it.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Well, yes, it has happened. We have evidence of God "dwelling in Jerusalem" during the post-exilic return in Haggai 1:13, "Then spake Haggai the LORD's messenger in the LORD's message unto the people, saying, I am with you, saith the LORD."
Big difference between the Lord's physical Presence and His Spiritual Presence.
Jesus was with the ancient Israelites in their Exodus. 1 Corinthians 10:4
He is with anyone today, who believes in Him and keeps His Commandments. Matthew 28:20

So your contention that Jesus has Returned, as per Revelation 19:11, is wrong.
We await the final fulfilment of all of Zechariahs Prophesies.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

3 Resurrections

That's 666 YEARS, folks
Aug 21, 2021
1,838
294
Taylors
✟84,420.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Big difference between the Lord's physical Presence and His Spiritual Presence.
Jesus was with the ancient Israelites in their Exodus. 1 Corinthians 10:4
He is with anyone today, who believes in Him and keeps His Commandments. Matthew 28:20

So your contention that Jesus has Returned, as per Revelation 19:11, is wrong.
We await the final fulfilment of all of Zechariahs Prophesies.

ALL of them? You don't think Zechariah's character called Zerubbabel, who was in the lineage of both Mary and Joseph, has not already come and gone, fulfilling the building of the Temple in his days? Joshua son of Josedech hasn't fulfilled his high priesthood role yet? Jerusalem didn't experience a siege yet since Zechariah's time? The dividing line between fulfilled and unfulfilled in Zechariah is found at Zechariah 14:16-19, which covers ongoing prophecy until the final resurrection.

I would agree that God's spiritual presence as the "spiritual rock" with the ancient Israelites is something different from Jesus's incarnate presence; a future joy which the saints today can definitely anticipate in the final resurrection. But it has nothing to do with Zechariah's prophecies that God - His spiritual presence - would be with the tribes of Israel in rebuilding their nation - in the post-exilic return. That's why God told them "I thought in these days to do well unto Jerusalem and to the house of Judah: fear not." (Zech. 8:15). He said that "NOW I will not be unto the residue of this people as in the former days...for the seed shall be prosperous; and the vine shall give her fruit..." (Zech. 8:11). God dropped time-relevant terms to let those Israelites in the post-exilic return period realize right then that God was going to bring prosperity for them at that time under the blessing of His presence.

And it is not MY contention that Jesus has returned per Revelation 19:11. Jesus Himself said that "all these things" in that list of events He gave to the disciples in Luke 21:8-36 including His second coming were "ABOUT TO COME TO PASS", when they would stand before the Son of Man. That generation Christ was speaking to was the one prophesied to see all that list of events come to pass. Christ's words, not mine.

Matthew 27:52-53 was not a resurrection to immortality and and 'many' of the OT saints, in the relatively small city of Jerusalem at that time, would be a hundred at the most.

The Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected group of saints numbered 144,000 of Jewish tribal members raised from the dead from those graves around Jerusalem. They never died again, since Hebrews 9:27 says that mankind is only appointed to die ONCE, followed by the judgment. The 144,000 were called the "First-fruits" (Rev. 14:4), just as Christ was also called the "First-fruits from the dead" (I Cor. 15:20 and 23). They shared the same title because they shared the same "First Resurrection" event in Matthew 27:52-53.

Jesus didn't perform half-baked resurrections that fizzled by dying again. These resurrected "First-fruits" saints temporarily remained on earth in their glorified, immortal bodies, since Paul said the church still HAD the "First-fruits" of the Spirit's work of redeeming the bodies of mankind in Romans 8:23. There are about a couple dozen references in scripture to the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints and what they were commissioned to do until the AD 70 rapture at Christ's return. You've probably read over them your whole life without realizing just who was being spoken of in those references.

There are extra-biblical accounts of these resurrected saints remaining on earth, but I prefer to read about them in scripture instead.
 
Upvote 0