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Featured Zechariah 14 speaks of the New Jerusalem

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by claninja, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Isaiah 43:19 appears to casually mention it?
    Jesus mentions Himself providing the living waters of eternal life.


    Isaiah 43:19
    "Behold! Doing a new thing; now she is sprouting; not ye are knowing her?
    Indeed I am placing in wilderness a Way, in desolation streams/rivers".

    John 14:6
    Jesus is saying to him: "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one is coming toward the Father except thru Me".


    John 4

    13 Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again.
    14 But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst.

    Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life.

    John 7:37
    In yet the last day, the great, of the feast, Jesus stood and cries-out, saying,
    "If-ever any-one may be thirsting, let him be coming toward Me and be drinking"


    Revelation 7:16

    16 Never again will they hunger, and never will they thirst;
    nor will the sun beat down upon them, nor any scorching heat.
    17 For the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd.

    He will lead them to springs of living Water,
    and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes


    Revelation 21:
    4 “And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying.
    There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away,


    6 And He said to me:" It Finished!.
    I Am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.
    I, to the one thirsting,
    shall be giving out of the spring of the Water of the Life gratuitously".


     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  2. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    If Jesus' own words formed from his own lips to utter aloud the phrase "as the Scripture has said" are not confirmation enough for you, then I have no idea what sort of confirmation you would hold authoritative over His?

    Perhaps you believe Jesus was mistaken and He was not quoting actual OT scripture?
     
  3. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I read your post here but see we are unable to get on the same page here. You approach these things your way, and I approach these things my way. More of my argument would be the following.

    Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.


    Let's start with this verse then. What might be a fulfillment of this? How about the following?

    Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


    How can Revelation 11:15 not lead to----And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one?

    Per my understanding, though maybe not per your's as well, Revelation 11:15 is meaning after the time of the 42 month reign of the beast. And speaking of that beast, how can Zechariah 14:9 already be true before and while the beast reigns for 42 months?

    Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
    8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


    Does this sound like, that during this 42 months, the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one? If it does, it must be meaning this beast then since the earth sees him as the one lord at the time, the fact the world worships it. But we know Zechariah 14:9 is not meaning this beast though, but is referring to God Himself. If Zechariah 14:9 is meaning as of the 7th trumpet, and that the 7th trumpet is after the time of the 42 month reign of the beast, then so must Zechariah 14:8 be referring to the same era of time as well.

    As to John 7:38 though, this verse was already applicable during Jesus' day, apparently. Per my position Revelation 11:15 is yet to be fulfilled, which then means so is Zechariah 14:8 yet to be fulfilled, therefore John 7:38 couldn't possibly be referring to Zechariah 14:8.
     
  4. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    The timing in Zechariah 14:8 is meaning as of and after the 2nd coming. I'm convinced of that. Or should I say, Scripture convinces me of that, as I tried to show via my post before this one.
     
  5. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    I'm curious, if you do not believe this describes a present reality, who or what would you claim has power and authority on earth today ABOVE Jesus?

    How about these?
    Matthew 28:18
    And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER is given unto me in heaven AND IN EARTH.

    Seems that seals the deal right there, no?
    Was Jesus mistaken or premature in saying this?

    Revelation 1:5
    ...Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, AND THE PRINCE OF THE KINGS OF THE EARTH


    "Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, AFTER angels and authorities and powers had been made subject to him" (1 Peter 3:22)


    Lest start with why you believe the above verses are either not true or premature in their proclamation.
     
  6. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    The fact remains, unless one can find another OT prophesy about the arrival of Living Waters, Zechariah 14:8 is the ONLY verse that Jesus was claiming fulfillment of in John 7:38.
     
  7. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  8. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  9. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    Those who wants to go through it will.

     
  10. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  11. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    Your first sentence is already an error, as is the rest.

    The dead in Christ rises first follow by those alive in Christ. Resurrection first, rapture second.
     
  12. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Zechariah 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
    9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

    In that day, in both verses, it is referring to the same era of time.

    Verse 9 says of that day---And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

    Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


    If Zechariah 14:8-9 is already true when Revelation 13:8 is being fulfilled, how does one explain all that dwell upon the earth are worshiping the beast rather the one LORD indicated in Zechariah 14:9? Worshiping God and worshiping the beast, this does not add up to only one Lord, it adds up to two. Why contradict the texts involved in order to get your conclusions to seemingly work? Is that the way truth is derived, by contradicting any texts involved in order to find it?
     
  13. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    So you are basically saying---When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him---that this involves the 2nd coming, but that the 'then that follows the comma, that this is a gap, thus the rest of that verse and the remainder of that chapter, these things get fulfilled after this gap is finished?
     
  14. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    Fact:
    He is the now ruling king:

    "Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth" (Rev 1:5)

    "Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers have been made subject to him" (1 Peter 3:22)

    To address your supposed conundrum, Jesus, the God-King, has chosen by his sovereign will to allow the wicked to continue alongside the righteous in his kingdom: "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, `Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' And he said to them, `An enemy has done this!' The slaves said to him, `Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?' But he said, `No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. `Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn. (Matt 13:24-30)

    He his converting people out of the pagan world of unbelief and transferring them into his kingdom ("He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son" - Col 1:13). He is making these converts the salt and light of the world and the city on the hill--as man is intended to be. He is redeeming them.

    Jesus has chosen to allow the present history of his kingdom to admit sinners, and to convert many of them from evil to good. But for sure, even in this permission, God is ruling over all kings and men TODAY (Daniel 4:25,34-35; Ps. 22:28; Dan 2:20-21).
     
  15. parousia70

    parousia70 Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    The prophet Daniel prophesied that the kingdom was to come in the “last days” (Daniel 2:28), which would be the days of Rome – the fourth beast in Daniels’s vision – and at that time, the “saints would possess the kingdom”. (Daniel 2, 7)

    Jesus arrived in the last days (Hebrews 1:1) when Rome (Daniel’s fourth beast) was in power (Luke 2:1-2), Satan was bound/judged/cast out by Christ's incarnational earthly ministry, reversing satan's dominion over the People of God, granting power over all darkness to the saints, and immediately enabling the gospel to spread to all nations.
    (John 12:31 and Matt 12:28-29, Heb 2:14-15 and 1 John 3:8).

    SCRIPTURE SAYS:
    Matthew 28:18
    And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER is given unto me in heaven AND IN EARTH.

    THE FUTURIST SAYS MATT 28:18 IS WRONG.

    AGAIN, SCRIPTURE SAYS:
    Revelation 1:5
    ...Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, AND THE PRINCE OF THE KINGS OF THE EARTH.

    AND AGAIN, THE FUTURIST SAYS REV 1:5 IS WRONG

    We, Christs Body, already rule and reign with Christ right now!!! It's a done deal. We are priests and Kings of a Kingdom that can never be conqured, ruling and reigning with our Lord for evermore.

    SCRIPTURE SAYS He is the now ruling king:


    "Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth" (Rev 1:5)

    "Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been made subject to him" (1 Peter 3:22)

    THE FUTURIST SAYS, NO HE IS NOT.

    When faced with deciding which of these two polar opposite views to accept as true and correct, that of scripture or that of the futurist, I have to side with scripture, every time.
     
  16. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  17. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  18. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  19. Seville90210

    Seville90210 Psalm 118:26

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    Revelation 14 is not a resurrection. It's about Jesus coming in wrath to destroy God's enemies, with some of God's people being caught in the crossfire.

    Revelation 14:19-20 King James Version (KJV)

    19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
    20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


    .
     
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