Zechariah 14:4 "HIS FEET WILL STAND ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES"

jgr

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Hi jgr,

You are adding to scripture there. Many people in the graves did not know of Jesus or His sacrifice, and thus are judged upon their works. The Body of Christ is NEVER JUDGED!!!!!

When Christ leaves His Father`s throne and goes to His own throne He brings His Body with Him to rule and reign in the third heaven, the seat of His power and authority. From there we will judge the world system and the fallen angels, (1 Cor.6; 2 & 3). And that is during the tribulation and NOT at the last day, which is for those in the graves.

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There is no suggestion or implication here or anywhere else that "all that are in the graves" means only "the pre-Christ that are in the graves".

All that are in the graves are judged for their covenant faith and obedience. Before Christ, that covenant was God's Old Covenant. Since Christ, it has been His New Covenant.

Faith and obedience have been God's immutable covenant requirements since the dawn of covenant history, and will be up to the hour of His final call.

For "all that are in the graves".

In the single event at the last day.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Marilyn,

John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There is no suggestion or implication here or anywhere else that "all that are in the graves" means only "the pre-Christ that are in the graves".

All that are in the graves are judged for their covenant faith and obedience. Before Christ, that covenant was God's Old Covenant. Since Christ, it has been His New Covenant.

Faith and obedience have been God's immutable covenant requirements since the dawn of covenant history, and will be up to the hour of His final call.

For "all that are in the graves".

In the single event at the last day.

Hi jgr,

Many in the graves did not know of the Lord and His sacrifice - those in darkest Africa many centuries ago, and many even today, die not knowing about Jesus. So it is not all pre-cross.

The Body of Christ is NOT in their graves but in heaven. They will never be in the grave, as they have the very resurrection life of the Lord Jesus Christ within them.

Are you telling me that believers who have Christ`s resurrection life within can be held down by the grave? Their bodies are dust, but they themselves are with the Lord, as the Apostle Paul tells us.

`We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be ABSENT from the body and to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD.` (2 Cor.5: 8)

What a wonderful hope and promise! Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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Hi jgr,

Many in the graves did not know of the Lord and His sacrifice - those in darkest Africa many centuries ago, and many even today, die not knowing about Jesus. So it is not all pre-cross.

The Body of Christ is NOT in their graves but in heaven. They will never be in the grave, as they have the very resurrection life of the Lord Jesus Christ within them.

Are you telling me that believers who have Christ`s resurrection life within can be held down by the grave? Their bodies are dust, but they themselves are with the Lord, as the Apostle Paul tells us.

`We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be ABSENT from the body and to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD.` (2 Cor.5: 8)

What a wonderful hope and promise! Marilyn.

Christ's body was in the grave for several days before He rose from the dead.

We agree that the souls of dead Christians are in heaven with Christ.

However, you are attempting to ignore what we are saying about the dead bodies of believers.

Your claim that Christians will not be involved in the judgment falls apart in the verse below.
What do you think happens at the "judgment" seat?



2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

.
 
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Marilyn C

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Christ's body was in the grave for several days before He rose from the dead.

We agree that the souls of dead Christians are in heaven with Christ.

However, you are attempting to ignore what we are saying about the dead bodies of believers.

Your claim that Christians will not be involved in the judgment falls apart in the verse below.
What do you think happens at the "judgment" seat?



2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

.

Hi BABerean,

1. `God...has given Him authority to execute judgment..` (John 5: 27) The Body of Christ is NOT judged.

2. `...the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice.` (John 5: 28) The Body of Christ NEVER is in or goes to the grave.

3. `come forth - those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,....` (John 5: 29) We are NOT saved by `our GOOD works,` but by the precious blood of Jesus.

And the judgment seat of Christ for the Body, is not a judicial bench but for rewards of those things we have done under the anointing and guidance of the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 3: 9 - 15)

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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Hi BABerean,

1. `God...has given Him authority to execute judgment..` (John 5: 27) The Body of Christ is NOT judged.

2. `...the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice.` (John 5: 28) The Body of Christ NEVER is in or goes to the grave.

3. `come forth - those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,....` (John 5: 29) We are NOT saved by `our GOOD works,` but by the precious blood of Jesus.

And the judgment seat of Christ for the Body, is not a judicial bench but for rewards of those things we have done under the anointing and guidance of the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 3: 9 - 15)

Marilyn.

If you have to deny that the dead bodies of Christians are in the grave, and have to change the word "judgment" to the word "judicial" to make your doctrine work, you may want to re-examine the Two Peoples of God doctrine that you continue to promote...

.
 
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Marilyn C

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If you have to deny that the dead bodies of Christians are in the grave, and have to change the word "judgment" to the word "judicial" to make your doctrine work, you may want to re-examine the Two Peoples of God doctrine that you continue to promote...

.

Hi BABerean,

I actually believe there are three groups of people that God has purposes for. I don`t deny that Christians bodies, turned to dust, are in the grave, or sea, etc, however I don`t agree that the Christians
will return from heaven and be in the graves.

Also the `Bema seat` of Christ is NOT the Great White Throne, but for rewards, not judicial judgment.

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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I actually believe there are three groups of people that God has purposes for.


Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.



2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


.
Now read further on in John 10:

John 10:

25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in the name of My Father, these bear witness concerning Me. 26But you do not believe, because you are not from among My sheep. 27My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

31Therefore the Jews took up stones again, that they might stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; because of which work of these do you stone Me?”
33The Jews answered Him, “We do not stone You for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a man, make yourself God.”

[They also stoned my bro Stephen in Acts 7:58-59]

Live by the stones, die by the stones

Revelation 16:21
And great Hailstones, as a talent-weight, is descending out of the sky upon the men.
And the men blaspheme the God out of the blow of the Hail, that great is the blow of it/her, tremendous.

The hailstones could be literal in the sense of large stones launched from catapults, as Josephus describes concerning the destruction of Jerusalem.

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
As a consequence, the legions were able to build their redoubts almost without any trouble; soon, their catapults started to throw heavy stones into the city. Under cover of this artillery fire, the Roman soldiers could start to bash the northern wall with their battering-rams.
=============================
Go to 1 minute mark to view catapults........best viewed full screen

.....................
 
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Marilyn C

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2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Hi BABerean,

The judgment seat of Christ, Greek `bema` a step, a rostrum, where we will RECEIVE a REWARD for the things we have done under the anointing of the Holy Spirit.

`...each one`s work will become manifest; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test each one`s work, of what sort it is. If anyone`s work which he has built on it endures, he will RECEIVE A REWARD. If anyone`s work is burned he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved yet so through fire. ` (1 Cor. 3: 13 - 15)

This `judgment seat,` is for rewards not for who will be saved. Our salvation does NOT depend on our `good works` but on the precious blood of Jesus.

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Hi BABerean,

`God ......purposed in Himself that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times that He might gather together in one all things in Christ both which are in heaven and which are on earth - in Him.` (Eph.1: 9 & 10)

God will bring all things under Christ`s rule, and there will be one family of God. There are different realms in God`s great kingdom, but all under the Lord, there are different groups of people, yet all will be under the Lord - one fold, (God`s great family) one shepherd, (the Lord Jesus Christ).

God made different nations and they will still be recognised in eternity, there are different `called out` ones and they also will have a purpose in eternity - yet all of God`s family and all under the Lord, the great shepherd.

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi BABerean,

You have asked me many questions and I reply, now I would like to ask you some pertinent questions.

1. Where is the scripture that says the Body of Christ is in the grave?
2. Where is the scripture that says the Body of Christ`s salvation depends on their good works?

Marilyn.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Zechariah 14:4 "HIS FEET WILL STAND ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES"

Now in Revelation it shows the Lambkin on Mount Zion with the 144,000 out of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Is/was Revelation 14:1 a literal event that will show the Lambkin/Jesus standing on Mt Zion or is it symbolic?

#629 is mentioned in only 1 verse of the Gospels and appears to be talking about 70ad?
G629 matches the Greek ἀπολύτρωσις (apolytrōsis),occurs 10 times in 10 verses

Luke 21:
20 Whenever yet ye may be perceiving being compassed by armies/hosts, Jerusalem, then be ye knowing that has-neared<1448> the desolating of Her.
28 Beginning yet these-things to be becoming<1096, up-bend! and lift-up! the heads of ye,
thru-that is nearing<1448> the redemption<629> of ye.


Eph 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God,
by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption<639>.

Rev 9:4
They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree,
but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 7:4

And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

Rev 14:1
Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion,
and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.
 
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BABerean2

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Hi BABerean,

You have asked me many questions and I reply, now I would like to ask you some pertinent questions.

1. Where is the scripture that says the Body of Christ is in the grave?
2. Where is the scripture that says the Body of Christ`s salvation depends on their good works?

Marilyn.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


Our salvation depends on His work at Calvary.

A man appeared in court and knew that he was guilty of many crimes.

The prosecutor had an ironclad case and presented all of the evidence to the courtroom for all to see.

When the judgment was read he was found guilty.

The man's attorney asked to speak with the judge before the punishment was announced.

The man's attorney whispered something in the ear of the judge, and showed his wrists and feet to the judge, and then returned to the guilty man's side.

The judge pounded the gavel and said that another had already paid for these crimes.

Case dismissed.


I am that man, and Christ is both my attorney, and my Judge.
He owns me, because He paid for me at Calvary.


2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


I will receive the things done in His body.
He is my substitute.

Praise God and His Son, Jesus Christ.

.




 
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Marilyn C

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1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


Our salvation depends on His work at Calvary.

2Co_5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


I will receive the things done in His body.
He is my substitute.

Praise God and His Son, Jesus Christ.


Hi BABerean,

That does not say believers are in the grave. They are asleep in the Lord in the third heaven, then come with Him and are changed. They do not stay in the grave.

And at the Bema seat of Christ, where rewards are given out, is nothing to do with our salvation. Notice the person who did not do good works by the Holy Spirit, still had their salvation.

`If anyone`s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself WILL BE SAVED, yet as though through fire.` (1 Cor. 3: 15)

You say - I will receive the things done in His body.
He is my substitute.

That is a nonsense. The scripture clearly says that `we` will receive or suffer loss according to our works. You are twisting scripture there.

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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That is a nonsense. The scripture clearly says that `we` will receive or suffer loss according to our works. You are twisting scripture there.

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Who is the Judge?

Did the Judge pay for you at Calvary?

Is Christ my substitute?

When God sees you will He see you, or the blood of Christ upon you?

During the Passover in Egypt the blood of the Lamb was applied to the lintel and the door posts.
The blood has now been applied to me.

Will you receive the resurrection of life, or the resurrection of damnation?

.
 
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Marilyn C

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Will you receive the resurrection of life, or the resurrection of damnation?

.

Hi BABerean,

I already have resurrection life within me as I have Christ`s spirit within and I am IN Christ.

My life is hidden with Christ in God.

`For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.`(Col. 3: 3)

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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Hi BABerean,

I already have resurrection life within me as I have Christ`s spirit within and I am IN Christ.

My life is hidden with Christ in God.

`For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.`(Col. 3: 3)

Marilyn.


Are you saying you will never go through a resurrection of the body like Lazarus, and Jesus did?


.
 
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Marilyn C

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Are you saying you will never go through a resurrection of the body like Lazarus, and Jesus did?


.

Hi BABerean,

That`s right, we don`t go down to the grave, but are taken to the third heaven when we die and are asleep in Christ. Finally the Body of Christ will get their new bodies.

`For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens......Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee....We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Therefore we make it our aim whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.` (2 Cor.5:1 - 10)


These are all saved by the blood of Jesus, and having a reward for their works. This is nothing to do with judgment concerning their salvation.

Marilyn.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi BABerean,

When? When God send Jesus with those asleep in Him and connect them to the rest of the Body of Christ on earth.

`God...(will) send Jesus Christ....whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, of which God has spoken by the mouth of all His prophets since the world began.` (Acts. 3: 20 & 21)

Marilyn.
 
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