Zechariah 14:4 "HIS FEET WILL STAND ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES"

[LittleLambofJesus]

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Your view is that Revelation involves the entire planet being destroyed/remade?

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion, when Revelation clearly shows a Country, City and People being destroyed.

Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Thank you for that clarification.

Do you believe that Revelation 12:5 is showing Jesus being caught up to God? [which would make this "past"]

Acts 1:9
And these things saying, of them looking He was taken/lifted up,
and a cloud did receive Him up from their sight/eyes

Revelation 12:5
She gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to shepher all the nations with a rod of iron.
Her child was caught up to God, and to his throne.
==========================
Here He is on a cloud:

Revelation 14:14
And I saw and behold! a cloud white and upon the cloud one sitting like-as Son of Man,
having upon the head of Him a crown of gold and a sharp sickle in His hands.

And just as Jesus promised, here He is taken up the 2 witnesses in a cloud:

Revelation 11:12
And they heard a great Voice out of the heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
and they ascended into the heaven in the cloud
and observed them the enemies of them

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld,
he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven?
this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven,
shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

The moment that His sinless heel touches the earth (See Genesis 3:15, and the link below.) appears to be the beginning of a chain reaction which will either destroy this planet, or remake it, based on the text found above.

Have you ever looked at the translation of some of the words used for world, earth, land, ground etc in the Bible?

"OIKOUMENE"(#G3625) In Olivet Discourse and Revelation. Mistranslated?

The mistranslation of #g3625 and the possible impact on interpretations when it comes to Eschatology.

Here are 2 other greek words I feel have been horribly mistranslated in the NT:
============================
GEHENNA/Hell

1067. geena gheh'-en-nah of Hebrew origin (1516 and 2011);
valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:--hell
AGE/forever/world
165. aion ahee-ohn' from the same as 104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):--Compare 5550...............
166. aionios ahee-o'-nee-os from 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
============================
And the word that is the focus of this thread: "OIKOUMENE"<3625>

Definition from greek resources:

3625 oikoumene feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093);
land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.........
STRONGS NT 3625: οἰκουμένη
οἰκουμένη, οἰκουμένης, ἡ (feminine of the present passive participle from οἰκέω (namely, γῆ; cf. Winers Grammar, § 64, 5; Buttmann, § 123, 8));
1. the inhabited earth;
a. in Greek writings often the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians, cf. Passow, ii., p. 415a; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, I.).
b. in the Greek authors who wrote about Roman affairs (like the Latinorbis terrarum) equivalent to the Roman empire: so πᾶσα ἡ οἰκουμένη contextually equivalent to all the subjects of this empire, Luke 2:1.

One interesting fact I found out is, that #3625 is used in only 4 verses of the Gospels:
1 in Matthew and 3 in Luke.

I will post 2 of the verses, both of which are used in the Olivet Disourse using the KJV and NASB, as they appear to be 2 popular Bible versions and also use different greek texts.

Used in only 1 verse of Matthew:

Matthew 24:14

New American Standard Bible
"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world<(oikoumenē)<3625> as a testimony to all the nations,
and then the end will come.
King James Bible
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world<(oikoumenē)<3625> for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.

Luke 21:26

New American Standard Bible
men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world/<(oikoumenē)<3625>;
for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
King James Bible
Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth/οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē)<3625>:
for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

 

[BABerean2]

Do you believe that Revelation 12:5 is showing Jesus being caught up to God? [which would make this "past"]

Acts 1:9
And these things saying, of them looking He was taken/lifted up,
and a cloud did receive Him up from their sight/eyes

Revelation 12:5
She gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to shepher all the nations with a rod of iron.
Her child was caught up to God, and to his throne.

The Second Coming of Christ and "the time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:15-18.

It is also found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew 13.

The Second Coming is also found at the end of chapter 6, and in chapter 16, and in chapter 19, and at the end of chapter 20, and at the beginning of chapter 21.

The beginning of Revelation 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ.

Yes, I have looked at many of the Greek words from the Preterist perspective.

If you think we are now living in the New Heavens and the New Earth, you are like the driver who has over-corrected and has gone into the ditch on the opposite side of the road.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yes, I have looked at many of the Greek words from the Preterist perspective.

.

I look at Revelation from a "COVENANTLE" OT and NT perspective......as would the Jews, if they would ever read it.....God bless them.......

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:26
" 'And besides all this, between us/Jesus/Faith and ye/Moses/Law there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' "

The "great gulf" mentioned by Abraham is nothing less than God's blinding in this age of the Jews as a whole to the truth about their Messiah! It's not that the Jewish nation won't acknowledge Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah; they cannot recognize his true identity because of God's actions! Yet because of the Eternal Father's great mercy, this state of affairs will not last forever (Rom. 11:26).
====================================================
Luke 5:37
"And no one is casting young<3501> wine into OLD<3820> skins, if yet no surely shall be ruined the young wine of the skins,
and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but young wine into NEW<2537> skins is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 And no one drinking Old palaion immediately is willing young, for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".

Hebrews 8
8 "For faulting to-them He is saying 'behold! days are coming is saying Lord and I shall-be consummating <4931> upon the house of Israel and upon the house of Judah a NEW<2537> Covenant, [Jeremiah 31:31]

13 in the to be saying `NEW<2537>,' He hath made OLD the first.
The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance.
[Revelation 14:8/18:8/]

Hebrews 12:
22But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the City of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable multitudes of angels,
23to the general assembly and assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24to Jesus, the mediator of a NEW, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.

 

[BABerean2]

I look at Revelation from a "COVENANTLE" OT and NT perspective......as would the Jews, if they would ever read it.....God bless them.......

Lazarus and the Rich Man - Here a little, there a little - Commentary

LUKE 16:26
" 'And besides all this, between us/Jesus/Faith and ye/Moses/Law there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' "

The "great gulf" mentioned by Abraham is nothing less than God's blinding in this age of the Jews as a whole to the truth about their Messiah! It's not that the Jewish nation won't acknowledge Yeshua as the prophesied Messiah; they cannot recognize his true identity because of God's actions! Yet because of the Eternal Father's great mercy, this state of affairs will not last forever (Rom. 11:26).
====================================================
Luke 5:37
"And no one is casting young<3501> wine into OLD<3820> skins, if yet no surely shall be ruined the young wine of the skins,
and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but young wine into NEW<2537> skins is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 And no one drinking Old palaion immediately is willing young, for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".

Hebrews 8
8 "For faulting to-them He is saying 'behold! days are coming is saying Lord and I shall-be consummating <4931> upon the house of Israel and upon the house of Judah a NEW<2537> Covenant, [Jeremiah 31:31]

13 in the to be saying `NEW<2537>,' He hath made OLD the first.
The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance.
[Revelation 14:8/18:8/]

Hebrews 12:
22But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the City of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable multitudes of angels,
23to the general assembly and assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24to Jesus, the mediator of a NEW, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.

Do you believe Jesus is physically coming back to earth again in the future?

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Do you believe Jesus is physically coming back to earth again in the future?
.

Would make for a good thread........
Perhaps we should start one on the eschatology board.
It doesn't appear that His feet actually touch down from the cloud?

Luke says this:

Luke 21:27
And then they shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming in a cloud< νεφέλῃ 3507>
with power and glory, much.
==========================
Revelation says this

Reve 14:14
And I saw and behold! a white cloud<νεφέλη 3507>,
and upon the cloud/< νεφέλην 3507> one sitting like-as Son of Man,
having upon the head of Him a crown of gold
and a sharp sickle in His hands.

Revelation 11:12
And they heard a great Voice out of the heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
and they ascended into the heaven in the cloud<νεφέλῃ 3507>
and observed them their enemies
==================================
I found a thread on it:

Will Jesus physically return to Earth?

Will his feet actually touch the ground in the second coming?

1 Thess 1:17 states we will be caught up to meet him in the air, Rev 21 seems to support this idea by describing the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven and the bride of Christ (church) is within, and this is after the old heaven and earth had passed away, also backed up in Matt 24:35.[ /quote]
.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

All believers (sheep) and unbelievers (goats) will be present at the judgment at the end of the world, with the dead, both good and evil, being resurrected in the same hour:


Romans 14
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Acts 24
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Matthew 13
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,


The sheep will already be aware well in advance of their eternal destiny, having read Matthew 25.

Hi jgr,

I have very good news for you. We the Body of Christ do NOT stand before the judicial judgment seat, the Great White throne. Jesus took our judgment upon Himself. Now the `judgment seat of Christ` is a different one. The Greek word is `Bema seat` and has NO connection of a judicial bench to dispense condemnation; but rather the official tribunal in the Greek Games where successful competitors assemble to receive their just reward.

The Great White throne is a judicial judgment seat and those NOT in the Body of Christ will go before that judgment.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

No, it was on the rebellious Israelite Jews in the 1st century Judea and Israel.........Stick with the 1st century and you can't go wrong........

Hi LittleLambofJesus,

I believe if you stick to the 1st century, then you get locked in the past and can`t see what God has said about our time.

Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

I have very good news for you. We the Body of Christ do NOT stand before the judicial judgment seat, the Great White throne.

Please provide the scriptures which prove Jesus wrong in John 5:27-30.

Please provide the scriptures which prove Paul wrong in 2 Timothy 4:1.

We will stand there while the Judge says..." This one belongs to me, because I have paid for them with my blood..."

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi LittleLambofJesus,

I believe if you stick to the 1st century, then you get locked in the past and can`t see what God has said about our time.

Marilyn.

Just as the Jews of today are locked in the past?
========================================
The only way the Jews of today can lift the veil of Moses off that covers their eyes......,

2 Corinthians
13 and not as Moses, who put a veil on his face,
that the Children of Israel wouldn't look steadfastly on the end of that which was passing away.

14 But their minds were hardened.
For until this very day, at the reading of the old covenant ,the same veil<2571> remains.
Because in Christ it passes away.
15 But to this day, when Moses is read,
a veil lies on their heart.
16 But whenever one turns to the Lord,
the veil<2571> is taken away.

2571. kaluma from 2572;
a cover, i.e. veil:--vail.
==========================
.....is to read the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation!
This will remove the veil of the OC off their eyes!

Revelation 1:1
An unveiling/revealing<602> of Jesus Christ,
which gives to him, the God, to show to the bond-servants of Him which-things is binding to be becoming in swiftness.........

602. apokalupsis from 601;
disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.
575. apo a primary particle;
"off," i.e. away (from something near),
2572. kalupto akin to 2813 and 2928; to cover up (literally or figuratively):--cover, hide

 

[Marilyn C]

Please provide the scriptures which prove Jesus wrong in John 5:27-30.

Please provide the scriptures which prove Paul wrong in 2 Timothy 4:1.

We will stand there while the Judge says..." This one belongs to me, because I have paid for them with my blood..."

.

Hi BABerean,

I believe what Jesus said that `all who are in the graves will hear His voice...` (John 5: 28)

Note that detail there BABerean, `the graves.` Now the Body of Christ is NOT in the graves, but in heaven.

` But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the General Assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRST-BORN WHO ARE REGISTERED IN HEAVEN, to God the judge of all,.....` (Heb.12: 22 & 23)

When we die, death cannot hold us down and we are with the Lord in heaven.

Do you not understand your wonderful inheritance in Christ?
We are NOT judged, for the Lord took our judgment upon the cross.
We are not in the grave as His resurrection life within enables us to go to heaven.

Marilyn.

 

[jgr]

Hi BABerean,

I believe what Jesus said that `all who are in the graves will hear His voice...` (John 5: 28)

Note that detail there BABerean, `the graves.` Now the Body of Christ is NOT in the graves, but in heaven.

` But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the General Assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRST-BORN WHO ARE REGISTERED IN HEAVEN, to God the judge of all,.....` (Heb.12: 22 & 23)

When we die, death cannot hold us down and we are with the Lord in heaven.

Do you not understand your wonderful inheritance in Christ?
We are NOT judged, for the Lord took our judgment upon the cross.
We are not in the grave as His resurrection life within enables us to go to heaven.

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

"They that have done good" are believers who are still in the graves. If there had been a rapture, they would have been raptured.

But there wasn't, and they weren't.

But now they hear His voice and come forth unto the resurrection of life at God's right hand, at the same time as those that have done evil come forth unto the resurrection of damnation at God's left hand.

In a single event at the last day.

 

[BABerean2]

Hi BABerean,

I believe what Jesus said that `all who are in the graves will hear His voice...` (John 5: 28)

Note that detail there BABerean, `the graves.` Now the Body of Christ is NOT in the graves, but in heaven.

` But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the General Assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRST-BORN WHO ARE REGISTERED IN HEAVEN, to God the judge of all,.....` (Heb.12: 22 & 23)

When we die, death cannot hold us down and we are with the Lord in heaven.

Do you not understand your wonderful inheritance in Christ?
We are NOT judged, for the Lord took our judgment upon the cross.
We are not in the grave as His resurrection life within enables us to go to heaven.

Marilyn.

Are you confusing the body with the soul?

The souls of dead Christians are with Christ, but their bodies are in the grave along with the unbelievers.
We know this to be true from 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5.
When Christ returns will He bring the souls of dead believers with Him, to be reunited with a body?

Are you are ignoring the word "registered" in Hebrews 12:22-24?
Are our names are "registered" in the Lamb's book of life now?
However, Is my soul is still here on earth?

I completely understand my inheritance.
It is found in many places in the New Testament.

Am I Abraham's seed and heir to the promise through Christ, based on Galatians 3:29?

.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

"They that have done good" are believers who are still in the graves. If there had been a rapture, they would have been raptured.

But there wasn't, and they weren't.

But now they hear His voice and come forth unto the resurrection of life at God's right hand, at the same time as those that have done evil come forth unto the resurrection of damnation at God's left hand.

In a single event at the last day.

Hi jgr,

Our eternal salvation is based on the finished work of Christ on the cross. It is NOT about `they that have done good.`

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Are you confusing the body with the soul?

The souls of dead Christians are with Christ, but their bodies are in the grave along with the unbelievers.
We know this to be true from 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5.
When Christ returns will He bring the souls of dead believers with Him, to be reunited with a body?

Are you are ignoring the word "registered" in Hebrews 12:22-24?
Are our names are "registered" in the Lamb's book of life now?
However, Is my soul is still here on earth?

I completely understand my inheritance.
It is found in many places in the New Testament.

Am I Abraham's seed and heir to the promise through Christ, based on Galatians 3:29?

.

Hi BABerean,

A dead body is certainly NOT the person. The Body of Christ, their spirits, who they are, are in heaven. Glad you mentioned that the Lord brings with Him those who are asleep in Him. They are not in the graves, and those who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord are certainly NOT in any graves. You are mistaken.

Actually we are of Christ`s seed, resurrection life. Abraham cannot give us life. Abraham`s seed, is Christ.

Marilyn.

 

[BABerean2]

Hi jgr,

Our eternal salvation is based on the finished work of Christ on the cross. It is NOT about `they that have done good.`

Marilyn.

Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Mat_12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Our salvation at the judgment is based on His good works.

.

 

[BABerean2]

They are not in the graves, and those who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord are certainly NOT in any graves. You are mistaken.

I never said their soul is in the grave.
I said their body is in the grave.
Do you deny this fact?

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

.

 

[jgr]

Hi jgr,

Our eternal salvation is based on the finished work of Christ on the cross. It is NOT about `they that have done good.`

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You are for some reason ignoring the declaration that "they that have done good" are "coming forth unto the resurrection of life".

They have certainly put their faith in Christ's finished work for their eternal salvation in order for that to be true.

They have then continued in that faith, and in the continued obedience of doing good.

But they have not been raptured, because there is no rapture.

Instead, they await the final call when they, together with those who have done evil, are resurrected, the former to life, the latter to damnation.

In the single event at the last day.

 

[Marilyn C]

Mat_12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Mat_12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Our salvation at the judgment is based on His good works.

.

Hi BABerean,

Those pre-cross are NOT in the Body of Christ, as they never had the opportunity to have Christ`s resurrection life within. They are the ones in the graves and will be resurrected and judged according to their works.

Our salvation is NOT based on Christ `good works,` BUT His sacrifice upon the cross and His resurrection life.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn,

John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You are for some reason ignoring the declaration that "they that have done good" are "coming forth unto the resurrection of life".

They have certainly put their faith in Christ's finished work for their eternal salvation in order for that to be true.

They have then continued in that faith, and in the continued obedience of doing good.

But they have not been raptured, because there is no rapture.

Instead, they await the final call when they, together with those who have done evil, are resurrected, the former to life, the latter to damnation.

In the single event at the last day.

Hi jgr,

You are adding to scripture there. Many people in the graves did not know of Jesus or His sacrifice, and thus are judged upon their works. The Body of Christ is NEVER JUDGED!!!!!

When Christ leaves His Father`s throne and goes to His own throne He brings His Body with Him to rule and reign in the third heaven, the seat of His power and authority. From there we will judge the world system and the fallen angels, (1 Cor.6; 2 & 3). And that is during the tribulation and NOT at the last day, which is for those in the graves.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

I never said their soul is in the grave.
I said their body is in the grave.
Do you deny this fact?

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

.

Hi BABerean,

You are confusing those who are in the grave awaiting the last day resurrection to be judged, and mixing them up with the Body of Christ who will NOT be judged, but will actually be judging the world system and fallen angels in the tribulation. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

A body returned to dust with no person there is NOT what God is referring to as those in the graves. Those in the graves are their body, soul & spirit, awaiting judgment.

Marilyn.