• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Zechariah 14:4 "HIS FEET WILL STAND ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES"

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,178
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Zech 14:4 is the only verse in the OT that mentions the Mount of Olives.

    Vs 4 states in that day His feet will stand on the Mt of Olives.
    Vs 1 states a day of the Lord is about to come

    I suppose my question is, is Jesus suppose to literally return and set foot on the Mount of Olives in the future or did some of it occur in the 1st century and some in the future.

    Zechariah 14:4
    1 A day of the Lord is about to come when your possessions will be divided as plunder in your midst.
    2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to wage war; the city will be taken, its houses plundered, and the women raped.
    Then half of the city will go into exile, but the remainder of the people will not be taken away.

    3 Then the Lord will go to battle and fight against those nations, just as he fought battles in ancient days

    4 And in that day His feet stand on the Mount of Olives,

    Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
    And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley;
    Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
    And half of it toward the south.
    5 And ye flee through my mountain valley, for the mountains will extend to Azal.

    Indeed, ye flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of King Uzziah of Judah.
    Then Yahweh my Elohim comes all of holy ones with you..
    6 On that day there will be no light –

    the sources of light in the heavens will congeal.
    7 It will happen in one day (a day known to the Lord);
    not in the day or the night, but in the evening there will be light.
    8 Moreover, on that day living waters will flow out from Jerusalem,

    half of them to the eastern sea
    and half of them to the western sea;
    it will happen both in summer and in winter.
    =======================================

    There are 2 events that are historically significant concerning the Mount of Olives

    The one in the NT showing Jesus on the Mount of Olives.


    Matthew 24:3
    Yet of Him sitting upon the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us.....
    Mark 13:3
    and of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives facing the Temple,
    Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired of Him privately...

    This map shows the location of the 1st century Mount of Olives in relation to the Temple/Jerusalem to the east.


    map of mount of olives.JPG

    And just for info, this map shows the position of the Roman Legions under about 40 yrs later.
    Titus and his 10th Legion is camped on the Mount of Olives.

    map_legions mount of olives.jpg
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,178
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    It appears 1 Thessalonians 3:13 harmonizes with Zech 14:5

    Zechariah 14:
    5 And ye flee through my mountain valley, for the mountains will extend to Azal.
    Indeed, ye flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of King Uzziah of Judah.
    Then Yahweh my Elohim comes all of holy ones with you..

    1 Thessalonians 3:13
    to the establishing your hearts blameless in sanctification before our God and Father,
    in the parousia<3952> of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

    1 Thessalonians 5:23

    and the God of the peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your whole spirit, and soul, and body, be preserved unblameably in the parousia<3952> of our Lord Jesus Christ;

    1 particular prominent structure that stands out, when one is looking toward the Temple Mount and Jerusalem from the Mt of Olives, is the Gold Dome.
    I am trying to imagine a future Jewish Temple being built next door to it.........

    ...........................

    ..........................

    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  3. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +229
    Christian
    Married


    Hi LittleLambofJesus,

    The letter to the Thessalonians was specifically written to believers in the Body of Christ. The Lord coming with His saints refers to further on in the letter when He comes for the Body of Christ.

    `For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.` (1 Thess. 4: 14)

    Here we see that those who died and are asleep in the Lord will come back when Jesus gathers us from the earth to Himself.

    Note Zechariah was written to the people of Israel. We can read it and learn of what God will do for them, but it is NOT about us, as the Body of Christ was not revealed until the Apostle Paul received that revelation.

    Marilyn.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,686
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    At Jesus' return. I use the passage in Zechariah 14:4, to say to Jews to use it as a checkpoint when their perceived messiah arrives right after Gog/Magog - whether he is the real deal or the Antichrist.

    In Judaism, they believe that during the messianic age knowledge of the one true God will be universal, using Zechariah 14:
    9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

    My suggestion is that they can see for themselves if the Mount of Olives has been spit in half.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,787
    Christian
    Married

    Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
    Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
    Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


    Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
    Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
    Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
    Rev_16:18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.


    2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

    2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
    2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


    The moment that His sinless heel touches the earth (See Genesis 3:15, and the link below.) appears to be the beginning of a chain reaction which will either destroy this planet, or remake it, based on the text found above.

    Heel bone of crucified man
    In a stone box, the only trace of crucifixion

    .

     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  6. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

    +722
    Non-Denom
    Married
    if you are correct and Zechariah and the 2nd coming are at the time of the end of this earth and the onset of the new creation and new Jerusalem and all then that would make Rev 20 in effect now. Can Satan really have been bound for 1000 years? Have the nations who were deceived, been no longer deceived in this last age we have been in? Did those beheaded for refusing the mark of the beast live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years? I like that you see zech 14 as future and noted that in that day the LORD is king over all the earth and His name is one. It says clearly in the text that the river that forms in that day will flow year round. So how can the river just created flow year round in a world that gets blown up at that point? It says the LORD is king over all the earth and mentions those left who survived will now have to come to Jerusalem to keep the feast of Tabernacle or they get no rain. Even Egypt is singled out for this. Will there be drought in the new Jerusalem?
    It seems that a future literal 1000 years of Jesus reining on earth would reconcile these contradictions. In Rev 11 we see the angel announced the kingdoms of this earth have become the kingdoms of the LORD and His Christ and He shall reign forever. In Dan 2 the kingdom that has no end comes when the stone cut without hands descends and crushes the image of mans kingdoms and grinds them to chaff which is blown away and this kingdom covers the earth and has no end. This again is the 2nd coming and the kingdom will be global and have no end as at the end of the 1000 years the kingdom does not end it just moves to the new creation. Dan 7 speaks of the day the kingdom comes and again like Rev 13 one speaking pompous words is persecution the saints and prevailing over them until the ancient of Days intervenes and one like the son of man comes and the pompous one is given to the flame and the rest of the beast lose their dominion and have there lives prolonged for a season and a time. This glorious one who comes and saves and is given the kingdom and dominion over all the earth comes after the pompous one has a time, times and half a time to act. That would be 3 1/2 years. Rev 13 has the beast getting power from the dragon Satan for 42 months which is again 3 1/2 years. His body is given to the flame thrown in the lake of fire with the false prophet and still there when Satan is loosed and meets his doom after the 1000 years is over. The beast in Dan 7 lose dominion never to regain it but having their lives prolonged for a season and a time would match being bound 1000 year season and released for a time to tempt the nations one last time. This scenario is cohesive and reconciles both new and old testament prophecies and shows God keeps his promises to national Israel and they are saved born again through the fire of the tribulation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,787
    Christian
    Married
    Satan has only been bound in one respect.
    Because of the Gospel, he has not been able to deceive all of the nations in the way that he did before the Gospel was preached.

    Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.



    The problem with the Premill doctrine is the number of passages that must be ignored to make it work.

    Matthew 25:31-46, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Timothy 4:1, Revelation 11:18




    The Son of God who defeated sin and death at Calvary will not be ruling over a planet where sin and death remain.
    We will not be living here in immortal bodies, with mortals.

    .

    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,686
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Why do you put these flawed videos out? The Great White throne judgement includes both just and unjust. But not all the just. There will be persons born and becoming Christians during the 1000 years millennium who will die during the millennium. And will be ressurected at the Great White Throne judgment. And go into eternity redeemed body and soul.

    Resurrection at the last day does not mean the last 24 hour day. It is talking about the 1000 year day. In Revelation 20:4, them martyred for the not worshiping the beast, are resurrected at the start of millennium.

    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    _____________________________________________________
    Daniel 12:
    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    "many", not all. It is talking about a general time in history. Before the millennium begins, after it begins, and after the millennium is over.
    _______________________________________________________________

    Three events which the just are resurrected on the last day:

    1. The rapture/resurrection of them in Christ, end times
    2. The resurrection of the martyred in Christ during the great tribulation, start of the millennium.
    3. The resurrection of them born during the millennium, die in Christ, and are resurrected for the Great White Throne judgment, after the millennium is over.

    There is another group who will be resurrected for the Great White Throne judgment and be found not guilty by virtue of being too young - such as babies and children who died. And person's mentally impaired.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,787
    Christian
    Married
  10. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +229
    Christian
    Married
    Hi BABerean,

    I listened to Mr Wagner`s comments on the video you posted. Mr Wagner has a simplified understanding of God`s word. It is like a person reading the newspaper & thinking that everything in it is all about them. God`s word is about God bringing all things together under the rulership of the Lord Jesus Christ, and His purposes for the different groups.

    One of the first things we learn when studying God`s word is `Who is speaking to whom.` Basic understanding even when we read the newspaper. This is what Mr Wagner has not done. He has lumped everyone together. There are individual people, groups and nations that God speaks to and we need to identify them and see how they fit in God`s purposes. Mr Wagner has a very superficial understanding of God`s word and no understanding of whom God is speaking to. Thus he is confused on this point - God`s judgment of people.

    1. There is no judgment of the Body of Christ as the Lord took that upon Himself.
    This was not known in previous times as the Body of Christ revelation was not known.

    2. When the Lord comes to the earth in flaming fire with His angels He judges those upon the earth as to how they treated His brethren, the Jews. (Matt 25) Jesus tells the people of Israel concerning this.
    Also those who died as martyrs will be resurrected. (Rev. 20: 4)

    3. The great White throne judgment concerns those in the grave, and they will be judged on their works. Those who never knew of Christ will be judged according to how they lived as to their God-given conscience. This is the judgment that was revealed to the people of Israel in the Old Testament and confirmed by the Lord when He was talking to them.(in the Gospels)

    Marilyn.
     
  11. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

    999
    +112
    Christian
    Married
    Zechariah 14
    1 A day of the Lord is about to come when your possessions will be divided as plunder in your midst.
    2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to wage war; the city will be taken, its houses plundered, and the women raped.
    Then half of the city will go into exile, but the remainder of the people will not be taken away.

    3 Then the Lord will go to battle and fight against those nations, just as he fought battles in ancient days

    4 And in that day His feet stand on the Mount of Olives,

    Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
    And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley;
    Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
    And half of it toward the south.
    5 And ye flee through my mountain valley, for the mountains will extend to Azal.

    Indeed, ye flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of King Uzziah of Judah.
    Then Yahweh my Elohim comes all of holy ones with you..
    6 On that day there will be no light –

    the sources of light in the heavens will congeal.
    7 It will happen in one day (a day known to the Lord);
    not in the day or the night, but in the evening there will be light.
    8 Moreover, on that day living waters will flow out from Jerusalem,

    half of them to the eastern sea
    and half of them to the western sea;
    it will happen both in summer and in winter.

    The 'day of the Lord' here is the same 'day of the Lord' announced in the 6th Seal & starting with the Trumpets in Revelation 8.

    This is the same 'day' that the man of sin is revealed. Placing the abomination in the holy place in Jerusalem & and 45 days later, stopping the sacrifices there.

    The 'living waters' are the messengers/ 'angels' that gather people (as seen in Revelation 7's '144,000 & great multitude) (there is no 'whisked away' rapture).

    Gog is imitating the arrival of Jesus/ messiah in this passage. Gog's 'locusts' (the same locusts of the 5th Trumpet & Joel 1:4-9) (septuagint Amos 7:1 Gog, the Locust King (LXX Texts of Note 3)) cut off the daily sacrifices, but the locusts are also imitating these 'living waters' the messengers that gather the elect.

    At the end of the 5 months of locusts, Gog will have taken possession of the sanctuary of Christians (because the '200 million army' reference at the 6th Trumpet is an allusion to Psalm 68:17's 200 million chariots where the Lord goes into the sanctuary).

    After taking over the 'sanctuary', Gog will cut off prayers in the 'sanctuary' (in the middle of 7 years) (which starts the 2 witnesses mission).

    Does all this mean that Jesus will literally come down? It's not clear to me because Ezekiel 43:7 says that the temple is the 'place of his feet'.
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,686
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,787
    Christian
    Married
    I am not expecting to change your mind.

    Those scriptures are posted here for others who are really searching for the truth, instead of attempting to make their man-made doctrine work.

    If they can read, and are unbiased, God's Word reveals the truth.


    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,787
    Christian
    Married
    A Jew recorded the Word of God found below.

    1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
    1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


    2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
    2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
    2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
    2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
    2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.



    There is now no difference between a naked native living the Amazon rain forest, and a modern Orthodox Jew living in the middle east.
    They both need Christ for the same reason and in the same way.

    .
     
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,037
    Non-Denom
    Hi Marilyn,

    Jesus identifies His brethren:

    Matthew 12:46-50 King James Version (KJV)
    46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
    47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
    48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
    49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
    50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
     
  16. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +229
    Christian
    Married
    Hi jgr,

    So when the Lord comes to judge the nations on the earth, the only group not there are the brethren, the people of Israel. The Body of Christ is already in heaven.

    Marilyn.
     
  17. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +229
    Christian
    Married
    Hi BABerean,

    We are talking about in the tribulation where many people of Israel turn again to God through the witness of the two witnesses. These are the brethren that flee when the anti-Christ decides to go after them. Many Gentiles will hide these people, feed them and visit them in prison.

    A third will come through and realise that Jesus is their Messiah.

    Marilyn.
     
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,037
    Non-Denom
    Hi Marilyn,

    There were always two groups within Israel:

    1. Those who did the will of Jesus' Father in heaven e.g. His disciples
    2. Those who did not do the will of Jesus' Father in heaven e.g. the Pharisees

    When Jesus referred to His brethren, which group was He referring to?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  19. Marilyn C

    Marilyn C Newbie Supporter

    +229
    Christian
    Married
    Hi jgr,

    `In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and uncleanness.......it shall come to pass in all the land.....one third shall be left in it: ...` (Zech. 13 1 & 8 & 9)

    `And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for him as none mourns for his only son and grieve for Him as one grieves for a first-born.` (Zech. 12: 10)

    Marilyn.
     
  20. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,037
    Non-Denom
    Hi Marilyn,

    You avoided the question.

    Jesus wasn't futurizing when He identified His brethren. He identified them right then and there.

    Were they from the first group, or were they from the second group?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
Loading...