Yuma AZ Mayor Declares Emergency

[Ana the Ist]

So the border city of Yuma has declared an emergency...

The Mayor of Yuma declares state emergency

This is, of course, the problem that has had many proposed solutions. Stricter enforcement of existing laws (aka child separation) the wall (aka enhanced border security) and most recently, sending them to "sanctuary cities". If you're unfamiliar with the issue, the simple explanation is that apprehensions are increasing, detention centers are overflowing, and now city resources like homeless shelters and charities are overwhelmed. There are simply more people than our system can handle.

What are the solutions to this on the left? Because it seems to be largely ignored or brushed off if it's addressed at all. I can remember headlines just a couple of months ago making fun of Trump's national crisis declaration...saying it's not really a crisis. Now we have mayors on the front lines of the problem say that it is indeed a crisis.

I know that the left has suggested that preventing illegals from working is the key....but that kind of legislation will take considerable time to pass, take effect, and then finally have any effect on this crisis. The same thing can be said about any pipedreams of "fixing" the nations these people are leaving. Even if such a thing were possible, it would take decades, and is of no help now.

I'd like to see Democrats finally come to their senses and do something about this...even if it means working together with Republicans or, heaven forbid, Trump. Ultimately, people's lives and safety are at stake now and doing nothing isn't an option.

Any thoughts?

 

[wing2000]

This is, of course, the problem that has had many proposed solutions. Stricter enforcement of existing laws (aka child separation) the wall (aka enhanced border security) and most recently, sending them to "sanctuary cities".

...those are not "proposed solutions" to the asylum crisis.

Mayor of Yuma, Douglas Nicholls announced a local emergency about the large amount of asylum-seeking migrants.

A solution to the overwhelmed Asylum system starts with expediting the cases with assigning more judges and more funding for holding facilities, processing etc. Today, ICE is dumping immigrants by the hundreds in the streets of Yuma, Phoenix, El Paso, etc. Citizens of these cities are stepping up to assist but that is not sustainable. The US could even consider setting up refugee camps run by NGO's who have the appropriate expertise. Longer term, the US needs to address the reason people are fleeing Honduras and Guatemala in particular.

 

[Mark Quayle]

So the border city of Yuma has declared an emergency...

The Mayor of Yuma declares state emergency

This is, of course, the problem that has had many proposed solutions. Stricter enforcement of existing laws (aka child separation) the wall (aka enhanced border security) and most recently, sending them to "sanctuary cities". If you're unfamiliar with the issue, the simple explanation is that apprehensions are increasing, detention centers are overflowing, and now city resources like homeless shelters and charities are overwhelmed. There are simply more people than our system can handle.

What are the solutions to this on the left? Because it seems to be largely ignored or brushed off if it's addressed at all. I can remember headlines just a couple of months ago making fun of Trump's national crisis declaration...saying it's not really a crisis. Now we have mayors on the front lines of the problem say that it is indeed a crisis.

I know that the left has suggested that preventing illegals from working is the key....but that kind of legislation will take considerable time to pass, take effect, and then finally have any effect on this crisis. The same thing can be said about any pipedreams of "fixing" the nations these people are leaving. Even if such a thing were possible, it would take decades, and is of no help now.

I'd like to see Democrats finally come to their senses and do something about this...even if it means working together with Republicans or, heaven forbid, Trump. Ultimately, people's lives and safety are at stake now and doing nothing isn't an option.

Any thoughts?

I'm wondering why I rarely hear the question, where is the money coming from to get all these people up to the border? There is organization going on, recruitment even, it seems to me. And I can't help but wonder if it isn't being done on purpose to confound Trump's purposes, maybe even an attempt to make it look like Trump is the reason there are so many all the sudden.

To one of your paragraphs, how would stopping the immigrants from working solve anything? To come here and no work would be just about the same as for Mexico, if they don't come on up here. More trouble than if they do work. The simplest solution, and the quickest is to enforce the law. Build the wall. But the left loves counter-intuitive.

 

[nChrist]

To one of your paragraphs, how would stopping the immigrants from working solve anything? To come here and no work would be just about the same as for Mexico, if they don't come on up here. More trouble than if they do work. The simplest solution, and the quickest is to enforce the law. Build the wall. But the left loves counter-intuitive.

I think that you've hit the nail on the head.

 

[Tanj]

I'm wondering why I rarely hear the question, where is the money coming from to get all these people up to the border? There is organization going on, recruitment even, it seems to me.

Your seeming is incorrect. Desperate people will travel vast distances on the smell of an oily rag to escape homeland horror. Always have. always will.

And I can't help but wonder if it isn't being done on purpose to confound Trump's purposes, maybe even an attempt to make it look like Trump is the reason there are so many all the sudden.

That's just silly. If people were not coming to the border, he wouldn't have a border problem to go on about. How would NOT having a border crisis help Trump? What person even remotely connected to reality would think South Americans are coming to the US because they like Trump?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Your seeming is incorrect. Desperate people will travel vast distances on the smell of an oily rag to escape homeland horror. Always have. always will.



That's just silly. If people were not coming to the border, he wouldn't have a border problem to go on about. How would NOT having a border crisis help Trump? What person even remotely connected to reality would think South Americans are coming to the US because they like Trump?

You really think the "caravans" of thousands were spontaneous?

I did not imply they come to USA because they like Trump. How did you get that? If I implied anything it was that those who hate Trump engineered the caravans because they want it to look like Trump is only making matters worse.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Any thoughts?

Democrats think their approach is working in making Trump look bad. Trump thinks his approach is working in making Democrats look bad. Both sides are right, that they are making the other side look bad. So why stop in the middle of success? Both sides are looking inane.

And it's been about 30 years now since we had a momentarily workable immigration policy. Until Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum actually lose power we will not have another (briefly) workable immigration policy. Just building crisis after crisis.

Frankly, why not send people who cannot be detained to sanctuary cities in sanctuary states? They have said, by becoming sanctuary cities, that they will take ille ... woops ... undocumented alie ... woops ... refugees. But when it comes time to take some people they cry foul. As if they don't like people coming to their sanctuary cities any more.

Immigration policy is beyond broken. It has become a theater of the absurd. Pretty soon it might come out that the Democrats are sponsoring people from Central America to come to the border and cross specifically to overwhelm the border. Wouldn't that be rich?

Ducking.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm wondering why I rarely hear the question, where is the money coming from to get all these people up to the border? There is organization going on, recruitment even, it seems to me. And I can't help but wonder if it isn't being done on purpose to confound Trump's purposes, maybe even an attempt to make it look like Trump is the reason there are so many all the sudden.

From the sounds of it, they're completely out of resources by the time they get here. Mexico surely buses them along their way....as it benefits Mexico to get these people out of their nation as quickly as possible, lest they strain Mexican resources.

As for how they afford to get smuggled north into the US, it seems like we'll probably see a lot of stories like this...

Illinois woman held 33 Guatemalans in basement, forced them into labor, threatened deportation, authorities say

She had 33 Guatemalans in her basement, basically as indentured servants, while they paid her their tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

To one of your paragraphs, how would stopping the immigrants from working solve anything? To come here and no work would be just about the same as for Mexico, if they don't come on up here. More trouble than if they do work. The simplest solution, and the quickest is to enforce the law. Build the wall. But the left loves counter-intuitive.

A lot of people feel if the incentive to come here doesn't exist, the problem goes away.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Your seeming is incorrect. Desperate people will travel vast distances on the smell of an oily rag to escape homeland horror. Always have. always will.

Well from what I've heard, they are riding in buses most of the way through Mexico. I don't doubt Mexico doesn't want tens of thousands of people begging their way across the nation every month...so the idea that they speed up the process isn't unfounded.

That's just silly. If people were not coming to the border, he wouldn't have a border problem to go on about. How would NOT having a border crisis help Trump?

Well obviously he would get to list "solving" the crisis as his achievement.

 

[Ana the Ist]

...those are not "proposed solutions" to the asylum crisis.

Mayor of Yuma, Douglas Nicholls announced a local emergency about the large amount of asylum-seeking migrants.

Of course they are.

A solution to the overwhelmed Asylum system starts with expediting the cases with assigning more judges and more funding for holding facilities, processing etc.

Expediting the cases? You make it sound as if there isn't a 9-18 month backlog already. More judges, lawyers, and agents would be nice....if it was implemented years ago. If that happened, we might have those resources available now.

The problem is that the mayor is talking about a situation where in days or weeks, people who don't have any money or place to sleep will be left on the streets. That's including women and children.

Today, ICE is dumping immigrants by the hundreds in the streets of Yuma, Phoenix, El Paso, etc. Citizens of these cities are stepping up to assist but that is not sustainable. The US could even consider setting up refugee camps run by NGO's who have the appropriate expertise. Longer term, the US needs to address the reason people are fleeing Honduras and Guatemala in particular.

No offense...but fixing every nation that fails just so the people don't come here isn't sustainable either. I don't even know anyone who dares lie to the public by saying it's possible just to fix these central American nations. Dumping their poor, uneducated masses upon us is their solution to the problems they have. If Guatemala can get rid of 8 million useless people....the remaining 4 million probably won't have any trouble finding jobs.

 

[Tanj]

You really think the "caravans" of thousands were spontaneous?

You really think they weren't?

I did not imply they come to USA because they like Trump. How did you get that?

from this

make it look like Trump is the reason there are so many all the sudden.

If I implied anything it was that those who hate Trump engineered the caravans because they want it to look like Trump is only making matters worse.

It makes no sense to me. Could you provide some reasoning to explain it? Trump comes off (and yes I am being hyperbolic) as a racist brown person hating white nationalist who wants to wall off the southern border and shoot any others that make it through.

What about any of that, even more milder versions, could possibly either

a) cause brown people to want to flock to the border

or

b) convince anyone with more intelligence that a garden snail that Trump caused brown people to want to flock to the border ("make things worse")

If I was conspiratorially minded then I'd argue that the only person that possibly has anything to gain from a crisis on the southern border is Trump, and if anyone is paying or organising these people, it is him.

 

[Tanj]

Well obviously he would get to list "solving" the crisis as his achievement.

Sure...but honestly, would that achievement offset the "we don't need the wall anymore! I'm cancelling the emergency and handing back the 5 billion" chant?

The border is a lovely wedge issue for Trump, the last thing he wants is a quick solution.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Any thoughts?

According to the article:

"The U.S. Border Patrol released migrants to the local shelter system over the last few weeks.

They say, "migrants being released into the community faster than they are departing, and shelters and the to run them are at max capacity."

This is exactly what the president threatened to do intentionally to sanctuary cities in Blue states... for this very reason. Donald wants to see this happen in cities such as Los Angeles, Chicago, New York, etc.. But as Yuma is not a sanctuary city, that leaves two possibilities.

1. ICE cannot do the job it exists to do, so it's foisting off the responsibility on local governments to do its job for it -- Incompetence on the part of ICE.

2. The unloading of migrants was done under orders... to the wrong city. Donald has managed to botch his attempt at thuggery -- Incompetence on the part of the administration as a whole.

(I'm far more inclined to believe 1, as even I don't think this administration is that stupid... but there are things I've learned never to bet on.)

My thoughts? Someone dropped the ball...

 

[wing2000]

Of course they are.

the problem that has had many proposed solutions. Stricter enforcement of existing laws (aka child separation) the wall (aka enhanced border security) and most recently, sending them to "sanctuary cities".

- child separation had no effect on the numbers of people applying for asylum.
- additional security could help in some areas but it won't be immediate and at the end of the day, applicants for asylum can present themselves at any port of entry and legally request asylum.
- transporting immigrants from one city - Phoenix for example - to San Francisco - will do nothing to solve the problem.

 

[wing2000]

No offense...but fixing every nation that fails just so the people don't come here isn't sustainable either. I don't even know anyone who dares lie to the public by saying it's possible just to fix these central American nations. Dumping their poor, uneducated masses upon us is their solution to the problems they have. If Guatemala can get rid of 8 million useless people....the remaining 4 million probably won't have any trouble finding jobs.

It's a known fact that if a country's security and economy are stable, people will not migrate out. Take a look at the recent progress in El Salvador. And illegal immigrants from Mexico is at historic lows.

btw, were you suggesting that I would "dare lie to the public?"

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sure...but honestly, would that achievement offset the "we don't need the wall anymore! I'm cancelling the emergency and handing back the 5 billion" chant?

The border is a lovely wedge issue for Trump, the last thing he wants is a quick solution.

It's possible that he would reject a genuine solution...

I don't see the mere possibility of that situation being a good reason not to propose any solutions though. I mean, if you thought it was going to remove the main issue he campaigns on, why wouldn't you propose a solution?

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's a known fact that if a country's security and economy are stable, people will not migrate out.

Absolutely. Guatemala is a cash crop economy that's losing its cash crops to climate change. I suppose we could invade and do a top down restructuring of the entire nation....but is that really more efficient than just keeping them out of our nation?

Take a look at the recent progress in El Salvador. And illegal immigrants from Mexico is at historic lows.

What's the progress in El Salvador?

btw, were you suggesting that I would "dare lie to the public?"

I thought it was obvious that I was talking about politicians.

 

[LoAmmi]

What are the solutions to this on the left? Because it seems to be largely ignored or brushed off if it's addressed at all. I can remember headlines just a couple of months ago making fun of Trump's national crisis declaration...saying it's not really a crisis. Now we have mayors on the front lines of the problem say that it is indeed a crisis.

I know that the left has suggested that preventing illegals from working is the key....but that kind of legislation will take considerable time to pass, take effect, and then finally have any effect on this crisis. The same thing can be said about any pipedreams of "fixing" the nations these people are leaving. Even if such a thing were possible, it would take decades, and is of no help now.

Any solution that isn't just red meat for the conservative base (and thus would not work) would take time to pass, take effect, and have any real significance. I get why it's appealing to think that there's some kind of one move solution to the whole thing. There isn't. Simple thinking does not solve complex problems.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Any solution that isn't just red meat for the conservative base (and thus would not work) would take time to pass, take effect, and have any real significance.

Oh, I don't know....

I think we could streamline the asylum process....reject outright any claims that lack evidence. Think of a pre-trial dismissal.

If that were done and they were sent back immediately, I think it could have a significant impact.

I get why it's appealing to think that there's some kind of one move solution to the whole thing. There isn't. Simple thinking does not solve complex problems.

Well there's a fairly simple reason why this isn't happening in Mexico. Last time I checked, being in the nation illegally carried a significant prison sentence (1-2 years?).

 

[TLK Valentine]

Oh, I don't know....

I think we could streamline the asylum process....reject outright any claims that lack evidence. Think of a pre-trial dismissal.

A fair enough idea... but I'm a little puzzled about the nature of the "evidence" that would be lacking.

Suppose for example someone is a political dissident or on some dictator's kill list, etc.... it seems unlikely that they'll have a copy of their own death warrant to show to an ICE officer as "evidence."

If they're on the run from a drug cartel, forget it! Those guys aren't even in the habit of leaving paper trails at all... so the asylum seeker is out of luck, aren't they?