Yu-Gi-Oh Cards and the like...

[straightforward]

Yesterday at 01:19 PM seebs said this in Post #78 We can't answer those questions very well. How about a guy on TV who says words and touches people, and they're healed? Is that dark forces, or prayer? How would we know? How do we even know whom he's really praying to? If we conclude that "if it's healing, it comes from God", then a lot of pagan "witches" are using gifts from God.

No offense but I don't get into that stuff either. Not because I would go as far as accusing them of witchcraft but because I think alot of the guys who are into that stuff are into alot of other doctrine I don't believe in.

BTW, you've misunderstood the "back door" entirely. This is the way in which people can draw *moral* conclusions from works set in world other than their own. No one reading C. S. Lewis will come to think that giant talking lions are God; what they may do is see, in Aslan's sacrifice, an explanation they can accept of why it would be necessary for someone innocent to sacrifice Himself for others.

Actually, the 'backdoor' has to do with more a sub-concious level. See my last post for how it struck me.

The question we must ask about a story, or game, is what moral lessons it teaches us. In some cases, the answer is "no moral lesson is involved"; this includes everything from chess through games like "Magic: the Gathering". In D&D, the answer is generally "heroism and morality are basically sound traits".

Again, see last post. But I might add that the only good trait I have been able to find in Yu-Gi-Oh has to do with friends sticking together and fighting a bad guy. The source of the power they use to fight for a good thing, would be my problem.

Many people have learned important moral lessons through games like D&D. When you're deciding what a fantasy character will do, you can afford to take risks you would never take in real life, thus exploring the moral implications of those risks. It's one of the only ways to learn what it would be for a cause to be worth dying for, and live to tell about it.

I am not totally ignorant of this fact...critical thinking is an important part of any rpg. I'm not totally unaware of that. I use to play the Dr.Who role playing game. My problem is not with rpg's...it with content and context.

 

[straightforward]

Yesterday at 07:22 PM Susan said this in Post #79I would say the best thing to compare these card games to is a much simpler, somewhat flashier, and much more expensive version of chess.

I don't remember the last time I had to (pretend to) summon a dark force to win at a game of chess...do you? 

Since straightforward used to be involved in the occult and would most likely read unintended but sinful meanings into anything with the mention of "magic," I would NOT recommend that she play it personally. However, I would say that this does not necessarily mean it's sin for her children, because they would not read real-life occultism that is not there into it.

I will turn the other cheek to that one...and add that I have NEVER said that playing any of these games was a sin. I do believe in spiritual warfare and I do believe it it something that is unseen. I do not expect everyone to see it and I do not think that everyone will...if we could it would be alot easier to fight.

 

 

[Caedmon]

Today at 11:00 AM straightforward said this in Post #80

From what I have been told and what I have seen of the game the hero does 'summon dark forces'. This is something the good and bad characters do.

What are "dark forces"? If you have a red magic force, and a blue magic force, which force is "dark"?

 

[Caedmon]

Today at 11:29 AM straightforward said this in Post #82

I don't remember the last time I had to (pretend to) summon a dark force to win at a game of chess...do you?

There are two sides in chess: black and white. Which one would you associate "dark[ness]" with? And think about this, one side is supposedly "good", and the other side is supposedly "bad". Which side is "good": the white side, or the side that you happen to be playing? If the other side is your "foe", then wouldn't that make them "dark", or for your "foe", wouldn't you be the "dark force" that he was fighting? And which is worse: a "magic spell" that freezes someone in place temporarily, or a longsword that spills his entrails?

 

[straightforward]

Both of the last posts make good points but I don't remember the last time I played a game of chess that had a good side or a bad side...or using any certain 'power' or 'moral' to win. I understand where you are going with this but I do not see chess conveying much of a message either way...I do see a conflicting message being conveyed in Yu-Gi-Oh.

I also might add that we are involved in a debate...that does not mean that one of us is good and the other is bad. It means that our views are in conflict...just as the two players in chess are opposing one another. (btw...that is not to infer that there will be a winner or a looser at the end of this discussion.)

 

[Susan]

I'm sorry straightforward, it was a mistake. I assumed, from your earlier posts, that you had a background in the occult.

I'm deeply sorry and I did not mean to slander you. :sorry -^.^-

 

[Mr.Cheese]

I don't know anything about this stuff. But susan does and she's a good girl. I think what she has to say on this subject is worth listening to. I know more about books and music.

 

[Blynn]

I just wanted to remind everyone that the Parenting Forum is not a debate forum.

If you would like to debate Yu-Gi-Oh Cards and the like you can start a thread in one of the Open Discussion forums.


Thank you,
Roberta

 

[Susan]

Sorry Blynn.


-^.^- Peace?

 

[straightforward]

Sorry I used the word debate in my last post...guess I should have said 'discussion'?

At any rate...when I started this thread it had to do with a question to parents (I thought) about how they have handled this in their families. I figured I was in the right place for that post.

 

[straightforward]

I do also want to make it very clear...to Susan in particular...that I chose my username because I am 'Straightforward'! I am sorry that at times in these posts (I've read and re-read them trying to figure out where Susan thought I called her a seeker or non-believer) I have not shown the peace and love I should have...I tend toward the logic rather than the emotion and don't always take into account that there are feelings involved. I have to constantly keep in mind that we are to use not just our heart and not just our logic but a blend of the two...that's why God gave us both. At anyrate I think this has been a heated and good discussion and the only thing I would change about any of it would be to take back whatever it was that Susan took as a personal attack.
I think we all must also realize that this is a very hard time for all of us. I have seen many posts (here and in other places) which have become very heated because of a very small thing. In my own life I have seen even the simplest joke become a major war. I think tensions are just very high right now and we should be careful how we interpret what other people post (which is made even more difficult because we cannot see the other person to sense their emotion at the time...I suppose that is what the smilies are for) and (my bad) realize that what we post can be taken the wrong way. Sorry to get off of the subject...but I think we need to call the Holy Spirit in here and make some peace.

 

[WayneH]

Hi Straightforward..........

you were right - you came to the right place - but as in any thread on any subject - things tend to get out of focus as well as off topic.. basically - you just need to bring it back on topic.......

Sorry - I tried to read every post here and for the life of ME I missed something.. I never saw where anyone said PRAY about it........ tell me if I am wrong - but did yo say yo unad your husbnad discussed this in FRONT of your kids and he said it was ok?

first off - take discussions in private first so when you both confront the kids you have a united front - either you will be convinced in yoru heart adn go along with yoru husband that its harmless - or your husband will defer to your wishes...........

In MY house - My wife and I pray about something like this and open our hearts to what God tells us..... for the most part - we feel if anything is a stumbling block then its out..... if either of us feels its not glorifying to God as you stated many times then its probably not good to keep around.. it doesn't have to be sorcery or anything occult.... reading many of yoru posts I have to say I agree with so much of what your trying to do...

as parents it all boils down to how they do when the kids are away from parents.... my daughter was at a friends house when she was 10 or 11 years old.... her frinds sister wanted to watch a movie that my daughter knew wsn't allowed to be watched - she told her friend she would play a game by herself while she watched the movie - no one watched it - I was so proud that My daughter stood up to the values we taught her... even at 17 and in college she still maintains her modesty and those same values...

the best I can say is don't back down from your convictions - if you feel a certain way then stand by it.. no matter what others say or feel.. doesn't matter if they are Christian - non - Christian or whatever - we all need to stand by our convictions...... have a wonderful day - I know God will help you decide many things in life......

 

[straightforward]

Today at 02:41 PM WayneH said this in Post #92
Sorry - I tried to read every post here and for the life of ME I missed something.. I never saw where anyone said PRAY about it........ tell me if I am wrong - but did yo say yo unad your husbnad discussed this in FRONT of your kids and he said it was ok?

first off - take discussions in private first so when you both confront the kids you have a united front - either you will be convinced in yoru heart adn go along with yoru husband that its harmless - or your husband will defer to your wishes...........

Thank you...yes...prayer has been left off of the board for the most part...but there is alot of prayer going on here. One of the main topics my husband and I went into after that whole thing happened in front of the kids (which started with me just trying to talk with them about the cards...not trying to fight them) was about having that united front. Unfortunatly it has basically been swept under the carpet at my house because he said it was ok and later told me that if I say any more about it in front of the kids I'm the one breaking the unity. And after a remark I made to him about ignorance (not in front of the kids) things were pretty un-unified...I'll tell you that much! I have resigned my self to intense prayer and just doing what I can to have a good influence on the kids and keep the peace. I have yet to hear much good about these cards and am really starting to see some negative things go unchecked because I am afraid to take a stand and be called fanatic at this point. It seems the only thing I can do right is pray!

In MY house - My wife and I pray about something like this and open our hearts to what God tells us..... for the most part - we feel if anything is a stumbling block then its out..... if either of us feels its not glorifying to God as you stated many times then its probably not good to keep around

You are blessed to have that. On most things my husband and I can agree...at least enough. I have asked my husband to pray with me on many occasions but he didn't want to. Kind of stuck there.

my daughter was at a friends house when she was 10 or 11 years old.... her frinds sister wanted to watch a movie that my daughter knew wsn't allowed to be watched - she told her friend she would play a game by herself while she watched the movie - no one watched it - I was so proud that My daughter stood up to the values we taught her... even at 17 and in college she still maintains her modesty and those same values...

Good job!!! Praise God!!!



 

 

[lamkins5]

I, too, am having the same thoughts and wariness on the issue of Yu-Gi-Oh. My (almost) 11-year-old has gotten into this game and the cards, but I believe, more than anything, because it's so 'popular' w/his friends right now. I have a son who is just 5 and he is getting into this whole Yu-Gi-Oh craze, too. I have gone as far as to have thrown out cards, etc., without their knowledge, but I feel guilty taking their things away from them. On the other hand, I DO NOT want them to be playing 'with fire' or something that is occult-based, devilish, etc. I am very interested in this thread and hope to find a solution or advice, as well, regarding this issue.

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

I have gone as far as to have thrown out cards, etc., without their knowledge, but I feel guilty taking their things away from them.

I would really encourage you not to do something like that... more or less going behind your kids' backs doesn't send a good message and IMO is a bit deceptive. There's a risk there, of sending serious mixed messages.

On the other hand, I DO NOT want them to be playing 'with fire' or something that is occult-based, devilish, etc. I am very interested in this thread and hope to find a solution or advice, as well, regarding this issue.

I'm PMing you

 

[Yujyo]

I saw back somewhere someone note something about the animes not really dealing with christianity. I recall, though, that 1 episode of PoK'eMoN talked about how Noah had sent out a dove to search for land, so Ash sent out a Pidgeotto to find land.
--- I am also interested in this topic. I myself am interested in the Yu-Gi-Oh TCG, and my mom isn't very comfortable with it all. If anyone in a case like this deals with anime, your going to be dealing with a foreign literature. The Divine-Beast cards for example (a.k.a. God cards) are not meaning to be bowed down before anyone who gets them, they are just cards that were created from Egyptian Liturature. I am comfortable for the most cards, but not so much with original Japanese cards. They show Hexagrams, Pentagrams, and other Satanic symbols. I'm not to comfortable with Spell cards because Sorcery is against the law of God. When you set, then activate a spell (refferred to as 'casting') arn't you kind'a using sorcery? I think there are certain things about the TCG that are Satanic, but as long as ppl don't reffer activating a spell as casting a spell, or worshiping the cards, it is still a game to the kids. If you have problems with the cards, and your kids, sit down and point out the evilness (or what you beleive to be) to them, and search your Bible for reasoning.
--Also some things about PoK'eMoN is satanicish (lituratureably meaning) because some of the PoK'eMoN are named (or originally named) after demons. Ex. Entai in Japanese literature is a wildfire horse demon/ Drowzee's Japanese name is Baku, which is the name of a japanese demon that steals ppl's dreams, like he does in Manga, Anime, and Video games.
~~ You decide, I'm just sayin' .....

 

[Yujyo]

I saw back somewhere someone note something about the animes not really dealing with christianity. I recall, though, that 1 episode of PoK'eMoN talked about how Noah had sent out a dove to search for land, so Ash sent out a Pidgeotto to find land.
--- I am also interested in this topic. I myself am interested in the Yu-Gi-Oh TCG, and my mom isn't very comfortable with it all. If anyone in a case like this deals with anime, your going to be dealing with a foreign literature. The Divine-Beast cards for example (a.k.a. God cards) are not meaning to be bowed down before anyone who gets them, they are just cards that were created from Egyptian Liturature. I am comfortable for the most cards, but not so much with original Japanese cards. They show Hexagrams, Pentagrams, and other Satanic symbols. I'm not to comfortable with Spell cards because Sorcery is against the law of God. When you set, then activate a spell (refferred to as 'casting') arn't you kind'a using sorcery? I think there are certain things about the TCG that are Satanic, but as long as ppl don't reffer activating a spell as casting a spell, or worshiping the cards, it is still a game to the kids. If you have problems with the cards, and your kids, sit down and point out the evilness (or what you beleive to be) to them, and search your Bible for reasoning.
--Also some things about PoK'eMoN is satanicish (lituratureably meaning) because some of the PoK'eMoN are named (or originally named) after demons. Ex. Entai in Japanese literature is a wildfire horse demon/ Drowzee's Japanese name is Baku, which is the name of a japanese demon that steals ppl's dreams, like he does in Manga, Anime, and Video games.
~~ You decide, I'm just sayin' .....

I mean sure, these are based on mostly demons but, do you beleive the cards actually contain these monsters/demons? I think it's not too different from the ever-so-popular D&D. *Again, if you think this is bad for your kids, sit down with them and the Bible, and try to make sence of it all. Just because you are interested in the animes doesn't mean you can't be a Christian, right?

 

[Yujyo]

Sorry about this, but I need to post sum messages so I can post the imgs I need to post.

 

[Yujyo]

The God cards are known as [Divine-Beast] cards in the english game.

 

[Yujyo]

They are changed from:
Saint Dragon-God of Osiris (Ryu,Kami no Osiris) to Slifer the Sky Dragon.
The God of the Obelisk (Kami no Obelisk) to Obelisk the Tormentor.
Sun Dragon-God of Ra (Taiyuo Ryu, Kami no Ra) to The Winged Dragon of Ra.