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Yu-Gi-Oh Cards and the like...

Discussion in 'Parenting' started by straightforward, Mar 13, 2003.

  1. straightforward

    straightforward Senior Member

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    I have been looking for viewpoints on these cards and other Trading cards. I like to save my fights for things important and I'm not sure if this is one of those. I didn't mind Pokemon so much...but to me it looks like these cards could be the next step up....anybody know? My husband and I are a little at odds about this. He use to play the Magic card game and thinks it's all harmless. He admits that some people got really into it and that was weird but doesn't think it's going to be like that with his kids.
    I tried to start the kids thinking last night about whether they were good or bad and kind of used it as a teaching tool about weighing things out but that was kind of blown out of the water when my husband said it was harmless...that's all they had to hear to think it's ok.
    Help...is this an important battle or just something to keep an eye on?
    What does Jesus think about Yu-Gi-Oh?
     
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  2. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

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    I'm not a parent so I really can't give a parent's perspective too much (LOL) but I'll tell you what I think from my viewpoint as a Christian and as a fan of anime and RPGs.

    I probably agree with your husband (lol) but with some reservations. I would say that it thoroughly depends on the maturity of your children. If they're old enough to know it's not real, it's only a story and game, and to learn their own boundaries, then I would say it's absolutely fine.

    Some people do "really get into" anime and RPGs, just as some people "really get into" football. Although there are Oakland Raiders fans that riot when their team loses, that does not make football evil and of the devil. It makes that person irresponsible. And the rioters are NOT representative of even most deep fans-they are a representative of a fringe that takes things WAY too far.

    In the same vein, although there are otaku who act like idiots or even idolaters, that does not mean anime/RPGs are evil. It simply means those individuals are acting dishonorably, and most of them are our "lunatic fringe."

    I say it's only something to keep an eye on, and to set a few loose boundaries on (don't steal or lie to get cards, don't run your whole life on it, don't cheat, be nice even when you lose, be a responsible steward of your money and your cards, and don't play with anyone who insists on "making it real")

    What would Jesus think? To tell you the truth, I honestly would not know since there are no mentions of anime or RPGs of any kind in the Bible, just as there are no mentions of cars or the PC on which I'm reading your message and writing this reply. My best guess is that it is, therefore, an issue left to how each person believes, an issue of individual freedom.
     
  3. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

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    Oh, and one other thing: if you're looking for info on anime, the Crossroad and Christians Aware sites are not the most reliable places, and even Focus on the Family's article is heavy on alarmism and bias. ("America's most dangerous entertainment import?" LOL, it's nice to know I'm allegedly a subversive encourager of a danger to American families o_O ~.^ :rolleyes: )

    The link below is an article that is one of the best treatments on the subject: it doesn't downplay the sick stuff and the need to watch out for it, yet it doesn't use the trash and the crazies as a reason to say "it's all bad."

    http://cornerstonemag.com/imaginarium/features/anime.html
     
  4. Talmid HaYarok

    Talmid HaYarok Active Member

    475
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    Thats a really good article, thanks Susan.

    for point of reference Straightforward, how old are your kids?
     
  5. Ruhama

    Ruhama 25 'הושע ב

    647
    +16
    Messianic
    I don't know anything about Yu-Gi-Oh but: here is my advice. If Lord of the Rings is okay then anything on par with it should be as well. You know your children and what will be harmful to them (i.e. if they will get "really into it."). That is the crux of the issue, Susan is right - it's not so much a matter of determining whether someTHING is evil more whether it will inspire your kid to sin or not.  Because we are surrounded by evil in this world, and too much restriction will have the reverse effect.

    I would advise you to give it the benefit of the doubt for now, and to pray that, if the Lord is against it, he makes it clear to you and to your kids' consciences. I really believe he is able to steer such things well, far better than we can.
     
  6. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
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    And let me provide the obligatory warning: if your kids search for YuGiOh online, beware of a site that even shows up in *safe* searches. It's called the "YuGiOh Bishounen Archive" and it is basically a lemon
    (highly sexual)
    fanfiction
    (stories written by fans using the characters but not permitted by or connected in any way to the original authors/animators/producers)
    site.

    Edited to clear up definitions and make reading more user-friendly if you already know what I'm talking about.
     
  7. straightforward

    straightforward Senior Member

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    Thanks for the replies...although I thought I might hear from some parents. Like I said, I'm trying to weigh this out. That would imply by scripture. The main question I have, since you were quick to dismiss the crossroad site (which I admit goes a bit to far) and the FOF article (which, they actually do have a page about Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon that gives a pretty even picture) I would have to ask you if there are demons, sorcery, egyptian gods (godesses), and a "guy" who likes to capture souls in this game? Is there God or any suggestion of Him? If there are does it really work to say it's ok because they aren't real? Let's put down the toys for a little bit and pick up our bible. The bible does say that these things exist in reality. And, Susan, please note Deuteronomy 18:9-15...God does have a stand on this issue. (Also, Proverbs 3:31&4:1-27, as I look maybe a study in all of Proverbs could help here!This is not about sorcery in particular.) To say this doesn't matter because we are just playing a game is a big warning sign to me. I am not ignorant to the ploys of the enemy and you shouldn't be either. Up until just recently I was up to my neck in the occult. I have seen first hand how the "harmless" can lead to the not so harmless. If this game does even skim the surface of what God does not like all I can say is: A skunk by any other name still smells bad! I would not hand my kids a pack of matches and tell them that if they play with them just the right way, or pretend that they are not real, they are harmless. As far as making sure we don't "go too far" into a game like this and people who do are some kind of freaks or something...quicksand is deceptive. Did you know that drug dealers will get kids to try pot (which in itself is not addictive) and once they like that high the dealer tries to get them into coke and once that high isn't enough he gets them into heroin. Now, not everyone who starts with pot is going to move on to the "harder" stuff but there are those who do. If I can use another drug as an example of why we shouldn't deem harmless what could become a stumbling block for others: As a Christian I can say that I can go out and have one harmless drink (which none of you should be able to associate with) but what if I say that to someone who is struggling with an addiction and I set an example, as a Christian, which then leads them to stumble? In saying that this game is "harmless" without taking into regard that someone else might be sucked into it by your witness you might be deemed liable for setting a stumbling block in front of your brother.
    BTW...my kids, who are old enough to get into this, are 7, 9,&10.
    As far as the possibility of linking this game with Lord of the Rings...all I really know on that front is that Tolkien did have a Christian world view that he did not put aside when he wrote those books. It is well known that he did not write these books as allegory(chk sp?). He did however define VERY distinctly the Good and Evil in his book and did make reference quite clearly to the powers of good at work and the Author of all life! Something you may not know is that he also originally intended for the wizards in these stories to be more along the lines of "wise men" (I have even heard the mention of them being sort of like angels but I have not seen proof of this in Tolkiens own words). If you pay real close attention to the book, and I have tried my best to because I had to weigh this out too, do you recall Gandalf really using anything we could call "witchcraft"? Or was he more prone to rely on wit and wisdom? Re-read them and judge for yourself. (You might also re-check the Appendix where it speaks of the wizards to get a slight view into this.)
    All in all, as I said earlier, I need to know if this game even remotely scratches the surface of the occult. If there is evil...is there good? And is it God's good (or even a hint of it) or is it some "good vibrations from the dark side? You tell me.
     
  8. Blessedmom

    Blessedmom He loves me despite of all my transgressions and s

    7
    +0
    I struggled with the same (my boys have pokemon, and magic cards) so I went on a "quest" of my own and found.....
    Redemption!
    A very :cool: cool trading card game bible based!!!
    Believe me it is great. My boys love the cards! Here's the link (copy and paste -I haven't posted 15 times so it won't let me post a link :cry: );


    cactusgamedesign.com/redemption.htm


    They also have believers comics and games. ;)
    Definitely worth a look!

    Hope this helped some


    Blessings
     :wave:
    Blessedmom
     
  9. Ruhama

    Ruhama 25 'הושע ב

    647
    +16
    Messianic
    You know what? You can take an entirely different tack on this. I looked at the website and it looks like a pretty standard trading game. Why do they want to be involved with it? is it because their friends are? Or it just looks interesting?

    If it's because it just looks cool, it's probably just the first thing they've seen. You can definitely find something similar to it that you feel more comfortable with.

    If it is because their friends are into it, well then I might give a bit more leeway.  But your youngest is the one to focus on since the younger always follows the older.  If you are uncomfortable with it, you can take the approach of not really wanting to get into trading card games (which is actually a reasonable thing, because all you end up doing with these things is collecting more and more packs, and the whole goal of it is to spend money.).  But you have to honestly mean that.  Or you can simply say you don't want the youngest to get into it. 

    Your kids still probably don't know what gods and demons are apart from "good guys" and "bad guys" (in the practical sense I mean) in the trading game and now may not be the time to introduce them to realities. At this point it might be safe for them. I mean heck, I watched all sorts of cartoons with magic and whatnot and never understood any darker meaning because the references were all cultural. An adult might look at it and understand all the implications, but a kid would not.

    Since you're wary of it, I'd suggest trying to find a substitute before they really get into it. From the little I've seen of it, it really looks like it is a harmless game - but the content is what you would be objecting to. One parent is allowed to be uncomfortable with stuff and make decisions. I mean talk to your husband about it but the kids should accept that.
     
  10. Ruhama

    Ruhama 25 'הושע ב

    647
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    Messianic
    The one thing I recommend you don't do, however, is dismiss it in front of your kids for its demonic connotations. Since your husband has already said that it is harmless, the wind in those sails is gone. They'll simply disagree with your judgment (heh, and get cocky), which is a bad path to start down.  I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, but I've seen it in action - it starts here.  Use that reason only for when it is obvious, and otherwise fall back to less offensive reasons.
     
  11. Beckijhn

    Beckijhn Member

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    Straightforward - I haven't checked out this 'game' but if it is along the lines of role-playing games like D&D, my children wouldn't collect them or play them. My kids are 14, 12, and 10. We didn't do pokemon, we don't do Harry Potter.

    If you err on with your children, err on the side of protecting them. We don't do anything with 'magic' and we avoid most of the problems because we homeschool. Though many of the homeschool families do pokemon and Harry Potter, it's never a peer issue.

    We do enjoy LOTR (which has my momma upside down) and Star Wars.

    It has to be along the lines of what God is telling you. If you've been in the occult you know that 'gut feeling' you get when things are wrong, and you are in tune with the spiritual warfare that goes on around you - Being a fine tuned awareness after being delivered from that side of spiritual bondage.

    You are in tune with HIS will, and you can safely follow your 'gut instinct' in this. I think you know how you feel about this because it was a big enough issue to post. It's hard to deal with stuff like this and our kids when our walk is not in the same place as our spouse's walk.

    All things that influence spiritual warfare in our lives is a battle worth fighting!

    I didn't mean to get on a soapbox *sigh* it is worth being passionate about!!!
     
  12. straightforward

    straightforward Senior Member

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    I totally do not mind the "soap box"...I'm familiar with it...I feel like I'm on it all the time! I'm just tired sometimes. My kids aren't homeschooled because we want them to learn how to live in the world but not have to become part of it. They will have these struggles regardless. I just feel like I'm totally struggling against the flow. I know what is right...but as a wife...how do I stand up for it?
    Sorry...sort of got off the subject...sort of.
     
  13. Beckijhn

    Beckijhn Member

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    LOL - Don't worry about being off the topic. I don't put my kids in school because they aren't trained to be missionaries (yet). And because I can't undo in a few hours time what is done in 8, or teach them to walk with God in a few hours on Sunday.

    As a wife, I would keep this discussion away from the kids. I mean have your discussion in private - even out of the house would be good. Then if you disagree after discussion see if your husband will allow you to 'make the call'.
     
  14. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    +538
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    The only potential problem that I can see with collectable customizable card games like Magic: The Gathering, Pokemon, or Yugioh, is the price. Most of these games are expensive to collect and maintain. I know that Magic is very expensive. Then again, a lot of experienced players, aka "Mr. Suitcase", will gladly give away lots of the less expensive, common cards.

    As far as any other type of danger... I can tell you this. Your kids aren't going to become an acolyte of the most evil Bhaal of the ninth ring of Hell for playing these games. Like I said, money is the most dangerous element, but with moderation, that can be handled. In fact, you can use these card games as a lesson in proper money management. You can make your kids work for the game, and gain a realization of the value of a dollar.
     
  15. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    If you err on the side of "protecting" your kids... what happens when they grow up, and you're not around?

    My parents gave me a boxed set of D&D rules when I was 9, and I'm pretty sure it's harmless.
     
  16. Evening Mist

    Evening Mist gentle mother

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    There is something to be said for protecting your kids, but the best way to do that is to wade through hard issues along side them and teach them how to navigate. I'm impressed and think it is very cool that you broached your concerns as a family and had a disscussion about it. It is great to get kids thinking and evaluating things.

    My oldest is only 6 years old, so we have been spared from a lot of the real popular things. We read the Harry Potter books as a family (twice) and I really, really, really loved them. The hype and commercialism surrounding it is a little annoying though. I don't appreciate advertisements directed at children in general. Kids are highly susceptable to "The Wants" and don't need encouragement from money hungry toy manufacturers. This is the main reason I limit them to PBS when it comes to TV viewing -- I don't want them watching commercials!

    We don't do Pokemon -- but only because the little I've been exposed to has struck me as completely obnoxious. It would drive me up the wall to have stuff like that in the house. We prefer toys and games with a little more substance to them. But like I said, things might be different when they are older.

    As far as the spiritual aspects -- it sounds as if you may have some scars from you exposure to the occult, and this sort of stuff might trigger things in you that you should not have to deal with. IMO, that is a good reason to keep it out of your house. If you find something painful or frightening, then you should not have to deal with it. Your husband should try to be more sensitive to what bothers you, regardless of what he thinks.

    For myself and my family, I am much more concerned about flesh and blood influences. I worry a lot about violence, and prejudice, and hate having the opportunity to take root in my children.
     
  17. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    +538
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    Something else that may present a problem is time and responsibility. You can spend a lot of time on card games, just as you can spend a lot of time on a lot of other things. But I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, as long as it does not interfere with responsibilities. And see, right there is another lesson you can teach your kid, using such games. Designate and limit times for playing the games, and you can actually teach your kid about responsibility and time management. So there you go... :)
     
  18. PastorFreud

    PastorFreud Lie back on the couch.

    +173
    Protestant
    I have children. Seven of them at the moment. Only one is even interested in the trading cards.

    As far as opposing them for some spiritual reason or something, I don't. The cards are not any more likely to turn kids into demon masters than playing monopoly will turn you into a greedy landlord. All the hype is just more of the Christian fear that runs rampant and fuels the ministries and pockets of certain types of people.

    But I do oppose the trading card games on the basis of materialism. They are designed in such a way to entice children to buy and buy and buy in order to get everything they need. This technique is even being used with happy meals. No longer is it a toy by itself. It is also part of a six toy set that combines to make a super toy!! I have alerted my kids to the choices in their lives. You can have these cards, or you can afford a movie out, or you can add next week's movie and buy a DVD, or you could add the money to the vacation fund, or you could save for college, or you could buy part of an animal from heifer international to help empower needy people, or you could take a match a light your allowance on fire. What sounds best to you? Think carefully about what gives you the most bang for your buck and let me know what you decide.

    On the other side, I teach my kids that when they demonstrate control over their choices, I will stay out. When they demonstrate lack of control, I will intervene. When Nintendo has the power to make you lie or talk rudely to your parents, then Nintendo has too much power and must go to time out. Sometimes for a week. When bikes go out without helmets, they have to be grounded too. When Yu-gi-oh cards make you forget about homework, they need to be in isolation for a while. My son just got his cards back tonight. We'll be watching to see if those things behave.
     
  19. Susan

    Susan 退屈させた1 つ (bored one)

    +120
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    Good post PF. I totally agree: I do not like the cards and toys and ad nauseaum things personally for that reason: the materialism is something else, and IMHO as an anime fan, all the money, money, money and more money emphasis is really beginning to take away from anime by encouraging writers to write boring tripe or trash in order to make money off all the licensing deals or the sales.

    However, they are NOT satanic, and materialism is not even satanic, it's simply a part of human nature. People want to make the golden goose lay eggs until it dies.

    "As far as opposing them for some spiritual reason or something, I don't. The cards are not any more likely to turn kids into demon masters than playing monopoly will turn you into a greedy landlord. All the hype is just more of the Christian fear that runs rampant and fuels the ministries and pockets of certain types of people."

    Thank you from the bottom of my heart for saying this. You've saved me an hourlong post on that topic, hehe. -^.^-
     
  20. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    +538
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    :eek:

    Woohoo! Go PastorFreud! :clap: :D
     
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