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Jesse Dornfeld

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Hello!

I am posting as a guest. I was nervous to make sure I understood what was allowed here and I was going to be disappointed if I could not ask my question here. I have so much respect for the Jewish people who G-d has chosen and called to be a blessing to all nations!

I ask a simple question: I know there are many different views on MJ and I am really curious to know how MJ interpret the Bible and such.

I am on this forum to learn though I will be sharing my perspective at times (but this applies much less so for this special section of the forum as I want to respect the rules here).

I believe there is a special blessing for Jews today just as there was before and this has not changed with the new covenant.

So if you could give a few highlights of how the MJ people see the Bible I would be eager to know what you believe!

Thank you.
 

HARK!

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Hi True Counterphobia,

Thank you for joining us.

I'm not of Jewish descent, nor even a descendant of Jacob to my knowledge; but with so many generations between us; who knows?

I have however come to an understanding. YHWH doesn't change. His word describes his eternal nature. Therefore, his word doesn't change.

I grew up in a Christian environment that didn't grasp this. They would misinterpret Brit Chadashah (New Testament) scripture, which would cause conflicts in their doctrine. Recognizing those conflicts led me to seek out the greater truth. I don't have all of it yet; but I keep getting closer.

If you have any questions about what I am saying; please feel free to ask.

I'd be happy to answer; but please be careful to not let this turn into a debate.

Shalom
 
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Jesse Dornfeld

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Hello. Thank you for your post.

I once considered Christians hypocrites as their character didn't match their Christian belief. I have found this is very important to MJ and so I have more respect right away! I try and live in a way that is pleasing to the Lord, but I am a fallen creature and I fail. I try to study the Word and different perspectives as I really do want to know what is True. I respect MJs as they have a long understanding of the Word.

Some questions.

I do not understand the saying "let the Jew stay a Jew and let a gentile stay a gentile." Could you explain this? I do not mean to provoke, only to understand.

What does it mean that Jesus taught as "one with authority, not like the scribes"?

Third question for now.

nor even a descendant of Jacob to my knowledge

Can you explain what you mean by this?
 
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HARK!

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I do not understand the saying "let the Jew stay a Jew and let a gentile stay a gentile." Could you explain this? I do not mean to provoke, only to understand.

I can't find that verse in scripture. I think that you might be referring to circumcision. Abraham came to faith long before he showed the outward sign. Circumcision is an outward sign of what has taken place within, much like Baptism. We should show that sign when we are ready.

You should be aware that there is no letter J in Hebrew, and the letter J didn't even exist at all until around the year 1400. That said, I know three different definitions for the word Jew. It can mean of the tribe of Judah. It can mean the colloctive of the tribes that were not carried off; and it can mean Yahudim, or Yah's people. Anyway we slice it, Paul is not telling his disciples not to become Yahudim.

Yahshua came none but Israel. YHWH's renewed covenant is with Israel. Yahudim, no matter where they come from, are to be, grafted in, one with YHWH's Israel.

What does it mean that Jesus taught as "one with authority, not like the scribes"?

I'm not familiar with this verse; but is he not the ultimate authority subject to YHWH?

Can you explain what you mean by this?

Jacob's offspring were the 12 tribes. The lost tribes have been scattered over the entire earth. I can not trace my ancestry back to Jacob; so I have no idea whether or not I'm of his blood line. I recently worked though some math (I can't remember where) and the odds of anyone of us having some of Jacobs blood is very high, even with super extremely conservative estimates.
 
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Jesse Dornfeld

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Yahshua came none but Israel. YHWH's renewed covenant is with Israel. Yahudim, no matter where they come from, are to be, grafted in, one with YHWH's Israel.

How do you understand passages like Matt. 15:21-28 or Mark 5:1-20?

I'm not familiar with this verse; but is he not the ultimate authority subject to YHWH?

Mark 1:21 And they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath he entered the synagogue and was teaching. 22 And they were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as the scribes.

Jacob's offspring were the 12 tribes. The lost tribes have been scattered over the entire earth. I can not trace my ancestry back to Jacob; so I have no idea whether or not I'm of his blood line. I recently worked though some math (I can't remember where) and the odds of anyone of us having some of Jacobs blood is very high, even with super extremely conservative estimates.

Thanks!
 
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TreWalker

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How do you understand passages like Matt. 15:21-28
We just had an online conference during Sukkot on Hoshanah Rabbah with the African members of Ahavat Ammi. At it's conclusion Rabbi Shapira speaks specifically here about our identity within the house of Israel and being grafted in.
 
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We just had an online conference during Sukkot on Hoshanah Rabbah with the African members of Ahavat Ammi. At it's conclusion Rabbi Shapira speaks specifically here about our identity within the house of Israel and being grafted in.

Thank you. I have fast forwarded to the teaching as 5 hours is a very long time commitment.
 
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Hello!

I am posting as a guest. I was nervous to make sure I understood what was allowed here and I was going to be disappointed if I could not ask my question here. I have so much respect for the Jewish people who G-d has chosen and called to be a blessing to all nations!

I ask a simple question: I know there are many different views on MJ and I am really curious to know how MJ interpret the Bible and such.

I am on this forum to learn though I will be sharing my perspective at times (but this applies much less so for this special section of the forum as I want to respect the rules here).

I believe there is a special blessing for Jews today just as there was before and this has not changed with the new covenant.

So if you could give a few highlights of how the MJ people see the Bible I would be eager to know what you believe!

Thank you.

Hello and welcome!

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message, which he prophesied would be proclaimed to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14). Furthermore, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, so he would have still taught full obedience to the Torah by example even if he had said nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe both in what Jesus accomplished through his ministry and through the cross, then we will repent and become zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20).

Jesus did not come to start his own religion following a different God with a different nature, but rather he came to bring fullness to Judaism as its Jewish Messiah in fulfillment of Jewish Prophecy. He practiced Judaism by setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, so he taught his followers how to obey it by word and by example. In Acts 21:20-24, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith who were all zealous for the Torah and Paul took steps to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the Torah and to show that he continued to live in obedience to it, so Jews who were coming to faith in Jesus were not ceasing to be Torah observant. On the contrary, some Jews were Herodians or nominal, which means that not all Jews were zealous for the Torah, so I believe that coming to faith in Jesus was causing Jews who weren't zealous for the Torah to become zealous for it. Gentile Christians were not included until Acts 10, which was roughly 7-15 years after the resurrection of Jesus, so all Christians were Torah observant Jews until Acts 10, which means that Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its prophesied Messiah, and this is the form of Christianity that I seek by faith to follow. In Acts 15:21, Gentiles were learning about how to obey Moses every Sabbath in the synagogues, so I see early Gentile believers as repenting and being zealous for learning how to do good works in obedience to the Torah it rather than trying to start their own religion following a different God with a different nature.

The Bible often equates the Mosaic Covenant as being a marriage relationship between God and Israel, so the Israelites needed to be taught how to have a relationship with God, or how to experientially know and be known by Him. The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's Torah, which is because it is His instructions for how to express His nature, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the Torah (Matthew 23:23). In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not experientially know God and refused to know Him because in 9:13, they had forsaken the Torah, while in 9:24, those who experientially know God know that he delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so when we delight in practicing those and other aspects of God's nature though our actions in obedience to the Torah, we are expressing our love for who God is, we are acting as a light and a blessing to the nations through testifying about who God is, and we are experientially coming to know God. Likewise, in 1 John 2:3, those who say that know Jesus, but don't obey his commands are liars and the truth is not in them, and in 1 John 3:4-6, sin is the transgression of the Torah, and those who continue to practice sin have neither seen nor know him. In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus said that he would tell those who were workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he new knew them, so the Torah is God's instructions for how to know and be known by Christ, who is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), and who expressed that nature though his actions in sinless obedience to the Torah. This is also why Jesus said in John 5:39-40 that the Scriptures testify about him.

The Torah testifies about Christ and we should live in a way that testifies about Christ, therefore, we should live in obedience to the Torah. On the other hand, rejecting the Torah is rejecting what was given to teach us about the nature of the God of Israel and to testify about Christ, which is therefore bearing false witness against him.

Feel free to PM me if you want to challenge or further discuss anything that I've said.
 
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Jesse Dornfeld

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Hello. Thank you for your post.

I once considered Christians hypocrites as their character didn't match their Christian belief. I have found this is very important to MJ and so I have more respect right away! I try and live in a way that a pleasing to the Lord, but I am a fallen creature and I fail. I try to study the Word and different perspectives as I really do want to know what is True. I respect MJs as they have a long understanding of the Word.

Some questions.

I do not understand the saying "let the Jew stay a Jew and let a gentile stay a gentile." Could you explain this? I do not mean to provoke, only to understand.

While it is good to understand whom the Torah was given to, it is not good to lose focus on whom it was given by. God's ways reveal His nature, and there are many verses that describe the Torah as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others, so the reason why God gave the Torah was not in order to teach the nations about who the nations about who the Jews are, but in order to equip the Jews to be a light and a blessing to the nations through testifying about how to walk in God's ways. In Deuteronomy 4:5-8, the intended to reaction of the nations seeing the Israelite's obedience to the Torah was to marvel at how great and wise God is, so again their obedience was testifying about who God is. Gentiles should not reject the light of God's Torah because it was given to Jews to teach to the nations rather than being directly given to Gentiles.

So "let the Jew stay a Jew and let a Gentile stay a Gentile" is not saying that only Jews should obey the Torah. The issue was that some Jews was considering themselves to have a higher status than Gentiles because they were circumcised and they were teaching that Gentiles needed to become circumcised in order to become saved, which was shorthand for becoming a Jewish proselyte. So Christianity is a form of Judaism and Gentiles do not need to become convert to being Jews in order to become members of Judaism, but Christ followed the Torah, so Gentiles can't follow Christ without following the Torah.

What does it mean that Jesus taught as "one with authority, not like the scribes"?

The Talmud uses a style of teaching where it quotes what one rabbi said about the topic and then would quote what another rabbi said in order to create a dialogue about the topic, so they were not teaching on their own authority, however, Jesus did not teach in this manner. Jesus did not give his own opinion about the Torah, but rather it was more along the lines of this is what he meant when he gave those commands, so he spoke on his own authority given to him by the Father.
 
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Jesse Dornfeld

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The Talmud uses a style of teaching where it quotes what one rabbi said about the topic and then would quote what another rabbi said in order to create a dialogue about the topic, so they were not teaching on their own authority, however, Jesus did not teach in this manner. Jesus did not give his own opinion about the Torah, but rather it was more along the lines of this is what he meant when he gave those commands, so he spoke on his own authority given to him by the Father.

What was this relation to Jesus as the "Son of God" as he is described in the beginning of the book?
 
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