Your thoughts on Church on Sunday, instead of Saturday

[Soyeong]

It's not an argument from silence.
He spoke to the woman at the well in Samaria, John 4. In John's Gospel she was the first person that heard that Jesus was the Messiah.
He spoke to a Greek woman from Syro-Phoenicea, Mark 7:24-30 and healed her daughter.
He lived in a country that was occupied by Gentiles - Romans, who worshipped many gods; healed a centurion's servant and was taken before Pilate and Herod before he was crucified.
He did not tell any of them to go and obey the Jewish law, and did not refuse to talk to and heal them because they didn't obey it.

I said that Jesus rarely interacted with Gentiles, so I agree that there are a few instances where he did that. However, Jesus didn't specifically teach in regard to the conduct that Gentiles should have, so the fact it is not recorded that he told Gentiles to obey God's Law is just as significant as the fact that it is not recorded that he told Gentiles not to obey God's Law. He didn't tell Gentiles not to commit murder, theft, idolatry, etc, so do you think that implies that Gentiles are permitted to do those things? It's not like he refused to heal Jews until they repented. We shouldn't even need Jesus to repeat any of the Father's commands in order for us to know that we should still obey the Father.

The issue is that Gentiles who want to become followers of Jesus should follow what he taught by word and by example instead of arguing against following him.

Even if he'd never met a gentile at all, he still did not tell his disciples to go into the world, teach the Jewish law to people and then tell them about him. He told them to "teach them everything I have taught you".

The goal of disciples is to come under a rabbi's yoke and learn from them by word and by example how to obey the Torah, so that is primarily what Jesus taught to his disciples, and at the very least would have been included in everything that he taught them. Jesus set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he would have still taught them full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). It doesn't say that following his example us just for Jews.

To fulfil the law means to complete, satisfy, realise, accomplish it.

I picked the definition I used because it is the only definition that is specifically in regard to God's Law, it fits with what Jesus immediately proceeded to do after he said he came to fulfill the law, it fits with how other verses us the term, it fits with how other Jewish writings use the term, and it was used in contrast with abolishing the law, so if think that I used the wrong definition, then please explain why.

However, the definition that you used is still consistent with my definition where Jesus taught how to complete, satisfy, realize, and accomplish what the Law instructs us to do.

I'm not exempting myself from anything. I not only follow Jesus, but am IN Jesus.

I do not think that word means what you think it means. If you say that you follow Jesus, but you don't do x, y, z, etc., etc., then that is exempting yourself from following what he taught by word and by example. For instance, Jesus set an example of refraining from eating unclean animals, so as his followers we should follow his example. In 1 John 2:3-6, it says that those who are in Christ ought to walk in the same way he walked, and he walked in complete obedience to the Mosaic Law.

Jesus never sinned, but according to those around him he broke the law by healing on the Sabbath, by allowing his disciples to pick and grind corn on the Sabbath and by not ritually washing their hands before eating. He also touched lepers, a woman who was bleeding, and a dead girl.
He did not teach people to keep one special day as holy and worship God on that day - he lived a holy life and worshipped God continuously.

The fact that there were people who incorrectly thought that Jesus sinned doesn't mean anything more than that they were incorrect about him sinning, so I'm not sure why you're bringing up that point.

It is not as though Jesus were in disagreement with the Father about whether we should keep the Sabbath holy. Jesus was sinless, which means that he lived in perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, including setting an example for us to follow of obeying the command to keep the Sabbath holy throughout his ministry. There is nothing about obeying the command to keep the Sabbath holy that means that we shouldn't worship God and live holy lives every day or the week and vice versa. We can't live holy lives and worship God by disobeying His command to keep the Sabbath holy.

In the OT, God rescued the nation from slavery and death, led them to Sinai and gave them his word - he was their Saviour and they were his people. They were told to abstain from certain foods, not touch people with skin conditions, wear clothes with only one fibre and most importantly, not marry foreigners; people who didn't believe in and worship one God. These were the things that THEY, the people God had rescued from slavery and death, were to do to show that they were different and his people.
God did not rescue me, nor my ancestors, from Egypt. But his Son HAS rescued me from slavery, sin and death. Jesus, the Word of God, has saved and forgiven me, lives in me and has given me his Spirit, who assures me that I am a child of God.
So I follow Jesus.

In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are now part of God's chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are all terms used to refer to Israel, so Gentiles also have the privilege and the delight of getting to obey the instruction that God gave to Israel for how to fulfill those roles. While it was not your ancestors who were saved out of slavery, you nevertheless follow the same God who saves His people out of slavery. It's not about you, it's about honoring God and who He has revealed Himself to be. Jesus observed Passover, so if you say you follow him, then follow him.

But to say that Jesus taught the law by example so he must have meant that all gentiles should obey the law too, is an argument from silence - which you have just said, doesn't work. Where did he teach that all his followers should be taught the Mosaic law and keep that?

Please explain how it is possible for someone to follow Jesus by refusing to repent and follow the Law that he followed and taught his followers to follow by word and by example.

Nowhere. In fact Paul, a former Pharisee, taught that if anyone insisted on circumcision, also God's law, they were saying that Jesus' death counted for nothing.

All throughout the Bible God wanted His people to repent and turn back to obedience to His Law and even Jesus began his ministry with that message, so it would make no sense to interpret Galatians 5:2-4 as Paul warning people against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. Paul was a servant of God, so he should not be interpreted as being an enemy of God by speaking against obeying Him. In Romans 3:31, he said that our faith does not abolish the Law, but rather our faith upholds it, so he should be interpreted as upholding the Law by faith rather than seeking to abolish it. However, the bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so if you nevertheless think that Paul was speaking against obeying what God has commanded, then you should be quicker to disregard what he said than to disregard what God commanded, however, that is not what Paul was doing.

In Galatians and Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved. However, God never commanded all Gentiles to become circumcised and the purpose that God commanded all Jews to become circumcised was not in order to become saved, so if God did not command it, then it was therefore a man-made requirement, which was in fact contrary to the purposes of God. Therefore the Jerusalem Council was upholding God's Law by rejecting that requirement.

So the problem was not with God's command to become circumcised, but with Gentiles listening to influencers who were saying that they needed to become circumcised in order to become justified. Paul had timothy circumcised and roughly 80% of the men in the US as circumcised, so unless Christ is of no value to us, then there are good and bad reasons for getting circumcised.

So one minute you are saying that Jesus showed us how to walk in perfect obedience to the Mosaic law, and the next you are conceding that we do not live under the Mosaic law.

And now you agree the the Mosaic Covenant is obsolete.

I was making a distinction between a set of instructions for how to act in accordance with God's righteousness and a covenant agreement to live according to those instructions. A covenant can come and go, but those instructions will always remain the same as long as God's righteousness remains eternal. So any instructions that God has ever given for how to practice righteousness will always be valid regardless of which covenant we are under, but as part of the New Covenant we are told that those who do not follow those instructions are not children of God (1 John 3:10). So while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, the Mosaic Lad did not become obsolete along with it. Instructions for how to act in accordance with God's righteousness can't become obsolete unless God's righteousness first becomes obsolete.

We are under a New Covenant which was prophesied by God, Jeremiah 31:31-34, and brought in and sealed by his Son, Matthew 26:28.
Jesus makes us righteous before God, 2 Corinthians 5:21, and his Spirit makes us holy, 2 Corinthians 3:18.

Indeed, the New Covenant involves God putting His Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts.

In addition, no one has ever explained HOW to keep the Sabbath. What does it mean?
Not working on a Saturday? I don't.
Worshipping God on a Saturday? I do.
Sitting around doing nothing on a Saturday? I might do if I thought that God wanted me to and it was his will - but like his Son, I prefer to do good and help others.

Keeping the Sabbath is really simple and I'd say that for the most part you are doing a pretty good job of keeping it. Keeping the Sabbath is about about sitting around doing nothing, but about taking time away from our work to dedicate to focusing on God's love for us as a community of believers. It has always been lawful to do good on the Sabbath, so expressing God's love to others is a perfectly good way to focus on His love. Part of God's instructions for how to keep the Sabbath is to have a holy convocation (Leviticus 23:3), but that meeting does not need to take place in a specific building. However, God also instructed us not to directly cause others to do work, so buying and selling is also something that is restricted, as well as cooking. Part of the delight of keeping the Sabbath comes from the preparation, where we get chores done ahead of time so that they don't serve as distractions. When we get serious about dedicating large chunks of time to focusing on growing in our relationship with God, to prayer, and to being in His word is when the enemy gets serious about causing distractions and when we need to get serious about limiting sources of distractions.

 

[GenemZ]

So, we Christians try not to live by the law as I understand. We live now through the salvation of Christ for what He did for us, and we as the Christian church made a statement to the jews that we no longer live by the law, so to make that statement bold and loud, the church changed worship days from Saturday, to Sunday.

My church on the other hand, do not go to the service for the sabbath at all however, not even to rest.. but to try to emulate and look like the church movement of Acts in the upper room.

We are not going there to rest, but to learn about God in a more of 'Bible' study format and to hear what God has to say to us through the scripture readings.. then pray together as the body of Christ, and using our spiritual gifts to go outside of our church walls and to tell the lost world about what sin is, and how Christ can save them from God's judgement toward that sin when they put their faith and trust in Him alone, not by following the law or by good works.

In other words, after the Sunday service, be on the great commission all week as the church together.

So, that is my understanding on what Sunday is for me and my local church here, the emulation of the church in the book of Acts.

What is your reasoning and understandings of it? I am putting some ideas together for a blog post coming up, looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say!

The church and Jesus used to teach daily. We need food everyday. Not just one, or two times a week... "Daily bread."

My dedicated pastor taught every day of the week except one. Saturday, so he could have a break to watch football, etc and relax. And sometimes taught more than once on certain days. Never got tired of it because it was in depth teaching.

But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and
publicly maligned the Way. So Paul left them. He took the disciples
with him and had discussions daily in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.
This went on for two years, so that all the Jews and Greeks who
lived in the province of Asia heard the word of the Lord." Act 19:9-10​

 

[Dan61861]

Christ is my Sabbath, He is my rest, every day. The work is done, Jesus has done it all for us. I rest in Christ each and every day.

Sunday I celebrate His glorious resurrection. A new day, a new beginning. Having died with Him, I'm no longer under the Law. I live under the Grace of God, His tender mercies through Christ my Lord. Sunday I'm not resting, I'm singing praises to the Lord, glorifing His name. Learning his word, call in unto Him...Abba, Father.

Sunday is not my Sabbath, it's a day we celebrate His resurrection. May we magnify Him every day.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Strong in Him]

I said that Jesus rarely interacted with Gentiles, so I agree that there are a few instances where he did that. However, Jesus didn't specifically teach in regard to the conduct that Gentiles should have, so the fact it is not recorded that he told Gentiles to obey God's Law is just as significant as the fact that it is not recorded that he told Gentiles not to obey God's Law.

I know you did; I was just pointing out the times when he did interact with Gentiles.
If it had been God's command that all Gentiles follow his OT law in addition to believing in Jesus, he would have said so.
Jesus was, and still is, God. He is the Word of God and came to reveal God to us. He would not have omitted to give one of God's most important teachings.
So if Jesus - God himself - did not say to Gentiles, "believe in me AND follow the OT law to have eternal life", it's because it's not necessary. Jesus alone saves - not Jesus + law, baptism or anything else. Jesus doesn't need any help to save us; he alone has done it.

He didn't tell Gentiles not to commit murder, theft, idolatry, etc, so do you think that implies that Gentiles are permitted to do those things?

Well he did, indirectly.
Those things are in the 10 commandments, do not commit adultery etc. Jesus said that the 10 commandments could be summed up in two; love God with all your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbour as yourself. He also commanded us to love as he loves us and taught us to love our enemies. If we steal from someone, take their wife or possessions, lie about them etc, we are not loving them. If we only do something for someone if they "deserve" it, or they did something for us, we are not loving as Jesus loved; because he gave his life for sinners.
So he may not have said, "teach Gentiles not to murder or steal", but those things were covered in the 10 commandments, which Jesus affirmed. Gentiles who believed in Jesus, came to Jesus and trusted and followed him, would have no doubt been taught that.

But he didn't say "teach Gentiles to keep all the law that was given to Moses - including not eating certain foods, stoning anyone who doesn't keep the Sabbath, etc etc".

The issue is that Gentiles who want to become followers of Jesus should follow what he taught by word and by example instead of arguing against following him.

I'm not.
Jesus was a male Jew - how do you think I, as a Western female, can follow his example re circumcision?
Jesus lived in the 1st century, wore robes and sandals, walked or rode a donkey, was under the law of the land - which had been occupied by Romans so was their law - etc etc. How do I, as a western female follow those traditions and cultural rules?

The goal of disciples is to come under a rabbi's yoke and learn from them by word and by example how to obey the Torah, so that is primarily what Jesus taught to his disciples, and at the very least would have been included in everything that he taught them. Jesus set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law,

It depends how you define the law, and what you are talking about.
Jesus never sinned.
But if by "law" you mean the whole of the law, all commands written in Leviticus; he did not obey them all. He came into contact with, and touched, people with skin conditions, Matthew 8:1-3, a woman who was bleeding, Luke 8:40-46, a dead body, Luke 8:54. The law says not to do those things; Leviticus 13:45-46, Leviticus 15:19-24, Numbers 19:11. Jesus did them, yet he did not break the law or sin - how do you work that out?

I do not think that word means what you think it means. If you say that you follow Jesus, but you don't do x, y, z, etc., etc., then that is exempting yourself from following what he taught by word and by example.

He didn't teach us not to touch dead bodies, or people with skin conditions; he did that himself., yet the law says not to.
He did not teach Gentiles to keep all the many hygiene laws written in Leviticus - and as well as those mentioned, they include things like not clipping your beard, rising in the presence of elders, not planting your field with 2 different seeds, and many more.

For instance, Jesus set an example of refraining from eating unclean animals, so as his followers we should follow his example.

He also taught that nothing that goes into our mouths can make us unclean, Mark 7:18-19.
Paul also said that food cannot bring us closer to God.

The fact that there were people who incorrectly thought that Jesus sinned doesn't mean anything more than that they were incorrect about him sinning, so I'm not sure why you're bringing up that point.

Only to say that there was no work allowed on the Sabbath, yet Jesus worked on the Sabbath - healing and allowing his disciples to grind corn.

In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are now part of God's chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are all terms used to refer to Israel, so Gentiles also have the privilege and the delight of getting to obey the instruction that God gave to Israel for how to fulfill those roles.

Really?
I belong to God, saved by Jesus, so I now have the "privilege" of wearing clothes made from only one fibre, refraining from certain types of meat, and, more importantly, offering animal sacrifices?
Sacrifices for sin were commanded by law; Jesus is the Lamb of God who offered his life for us, and died, once and for all, for the sin of the world. Yet you think we have the "privilege" of offering animal sacrifices for our sin as the law says?

Please explain how it is possible for someone to follow Jesus by refusing to repent and follow the Law that he followed and taught his followers to follow by word and by example.

Simple. He DIDN'T say, "all Gentiles should keep all the laws in Leviticus after they believe in me and receive eternal life". He DIDN'T say "no one comes to the Father except through me, and obeying the law". He DIDN'T say "obey Leviticus perfectly or you will not be saved".
So we cannot sin by not doing what he didn't teach.

All throughout the Bible God wanted His people to repent and turn back to obedience to His Law and even Jesus began his ministry with that message,

All through the OT God wanted his people to turn back to him, remember his commands, put him first and keep the covenant.
We are God's people through Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Jesus taught us to put God first, gave us NEW commands and taught that his blood was of the NEW Covenant.

so it would make no sense to interpret Galatians 5:2-4 as Paul warning people against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. Paul was a servant of God, so he should not be interpreted as being an enemy of God by speaking against obeying Him.

I wasn't.

I was making a distinction between a set of instructions for how to act in accordance with God's righteousness and a covenant agreement to live according to those instructions. A covenant can come and go, but those instructions will always remain the same as long as God's righteousness remains eternal.

You said that we are not under the Mosaic law and that it is obsolete. The NT agrees with you.
If we are not under Mosaic law, yet you say that Jesus taught us how to perfectly obey Mosaic law, you are saying that Jesus taught us to keep, and live,something that is irrelevant; obsolete.

So any instructions that God has ever given for how to practice righteousness will always be valid

No, because Christ, God himself, came and offered his life to make us righteous, 2 Corinthians 5:21.
We are righteous in, through and because of Christ.
Saying that Christ has made us righteous but we'd better follow all the laws that God gave to other people to show that they were righteous, is like saying that Christ's work on the cross wasn't enough. It's saying that Jesus died for the unrighteous, to make us righteous, but we'd still better DO ...... to become righteous.

So while the Mosaic Covenant has become obsolete, the Mosaic Lad did not become obsolete along with it. Instructions for how to act in accordance with God's righteousness can't become obsolete unless God's righteousness first becomes obsolete.

No, the covenant was with those God had rescued from slavery in Egypt; they became his people, because he had saved them, and his law was how he wanted them to live. Two sides to a covenant - God's side, you are my people, I saved you, love you and this is how I want you to live to show that you belong to me; the nation's side, we belong to you because you saved us, will dedicate ourselves to you and live as you tell us.
God's laws to them were how they lived out his covenant. It doesn't make sense to say that the covenant is obsolete but the laws, HOW they lived the covenant, are still valid - and even by those to whom they were not given.

Jesus has fulfilled the law.
Jesus has saved us and is the only way to God.
Jesus has made us righteous.
Jesus has brought in a NEW Covenant and given us new commands.
Salvation is through Jesus. Righteousness is found through Jesus. Jesus gives us his Spirit who makes us holy. God's will is that people will look to Jesus, believe in him and have eternal life, John 6:40.
It makes no sense to believe these things but still say, "yes but we need to DO all the OT laws because these are what make us righteous." They don't.

Keeping the Sabbath is really simple and I'd say that for the most part you are doing a pretty good job of keeping it.

Oh well, that's ok then.
Not that it matters whether I do or not.

 

[Strong in Him]

Christ is my Sabbath, He is my rest, every day. The work is done, Jesus has done it all for us. I rest in Christ each and every day.

Sunday I celebrate His glorious resurrection. A new day, a new beginning. Having died with Him, I'm no longer under the Law. I live under the Grace of God, His tender mercies through Christ my Lord. Sunday I'm not resting, I'm singing praises to the Lord, glorifing His name. Learning his word, call in unto Him...Abba, Father.

Sunday is not my Sabbath, it's a day we celebrate His resurrection. May we magnify Him every day.

In Christ
Daniel

Amen.

 

[Eric Abbott]

I'm sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you holding the position that we no longer live by the Law and that we now worship on Sunday instead of keeping the Sabbath holy. There's nothing wrong with serving God throughout the week, and in fact that is something that should be commended. So where do you stand on keeping God's other holy days?

Are you ever scheduled to work on Saturday by your day jobs boss?
Are you in a position to work for an employer that shuts down his/her business on Saturday?

What if you are called as a husband to provide for your wife, yet your boss scheduled you to work on the sabbath? -- This is where I am at.

 

[GenemZ]

Are you ever scheduled to work on Saturday by your day jobs boss?
Are you in a position to work for an employer that shuts down his/her business on Saturday?

What if you are called as a husband to provide for your wife, yet your boss scheduled you to work on the sabbath? -- This is where I am at.

What Sabbath? The day you watch your lamb grazing that you will sacrifice in the Temple next week? Why do some people insist having one foot in what is in the past and over with? Is it romanticized in their eyes to live in reenactments like some like to do with past battles of the past?

What if your boss insisted that your husband has to be circumcised to work for him? Law is dead! The principles remain.. but not their mandates as it once was for the Jews living in Israel.

If this is a hump? I wonder how anyone thinking like that can ever come to full maturity in grace and truth in Christ? For the life of me, I can not figure how anyone can think we are still to be under the Law. It means they do not understand what the Law was for!

The Law was given to restrain the ancient Jews, so they could survive and be alive on earth when the Messiah was to be born into the world through the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

"Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions
until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come." Gal 3:19a​

The Messiah has come!

No more need for the Law anymore! We are now in the liberty of the inward restraint by the indwelling Holy Spirit, not the Law...The God the Spirit who is made to be one with our soul according to the sound doctrine we choose to believe. Believing in living under the Law is false doctrine. Its anti the new creation in Christ!

 

[Eric Abbott]

What Sabbath? The day you watch your lamb grazing that you will sacrifice in the Temple next week? Why do some people insist having one foot in what is in the past and over with? Is it romanticized in their eyes to live in reenactments like some like to do with past battles of the past?

What if your boss insisted that your husband has to be circumcised to work for him? Law is dead! The principles remain.. but not their mandates as it once was for the Jews living in Israel.

If this is a hump? I wonder how anyone thinking like that can ever come to full maturity in grace and truth in Christ? For the life of me, I can not figure how anyone can think we are still to be under the Law. It means they do not understand what the Law was for!

The Law was given to restrain the ancient Jews, so they could survive and be alive on earth when the Messiah was to be born into the world through the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

"Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions
until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come." Gal 3:19a​

The Messiah has come!

No more need for the Law anymore! We are now in the liberty of the inward restraint by the indwelling Holy Spirit, not the Law...The God the Spirit who is made to be one with our soul according to the sound doctrine we choose to believe. Believing in living under the Law is false doctrine. Its anti the new creation in Christ!

I am only asking the people you are questioning, questions You make great points.

 

[GenemZ]

They got to learn what is right and wrong thinking. New believers sometimes live in a fairy tale state of mind, because of the trauma of coming to grips with the truth that God is real and Jesus is alive. They can not handle what is overwhelming and need to be stabilized.

But, only sound teaching can stabilize... During that period we see a great deal of instability... That is when the well seasoned false teachers go hunting for prey. That's when doctrinal fights ensue. Its for the souls of believers.

 

[Eric Abbott]

They got to learn what is right and wrong thinking. New believers sometimes live in a fairy tale state of mind, because of the trauma of coming to grips with the truth that God is real and Jesus is alive. They can not handle what is overwhelming and need to be stabilized.

But, only sound teaching can stabilize... During that period we see a great deal of instability... That is when the well seasoned false teachers go hunting for prey. That's when doctrinal fights ensue. Its for the souls of believers.

I've been a believer for 8 years now, saved that is. However, when I first became a believer, very new to salvation -- I was very proud, everything was new.. but man did I ever have an ego about it!!

I thought when I was reading my bible, especially in the old testament, I had all the answers..

I honestly had this new power of the Holy Spirit and did not know yet how to handle it. I became almost pharisee like.

This is why Paul writes to Timothy to NOT make new Christians elders of the church, due to them not knowing how to handle this new profound power and knowledge they attain in the Holy Spirit -- our human nature makes us prideful when not knowing how to show restraint, when we are actually still being molded in our knowledge, as I was. -- We are all constantly being molded, in fact I will probably be learning new revelations of God's word that I missed or was wrong about until the day I die.

 

[GenemZ]

Right! "Revelations" are not given any longer. Common error we all make as well.

This is what we are to be given because all revelation has already been provided for in God's completed Word..

"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight." Philip 1:9​

We commonly call getting insight as 'revelation.' But, revelation is from where we gain insight. God has contained all the revelation we need already for this life in His written Word.

Interesting to note, that our love abounds through gaining knowledge... and 'insight.'

Learning more and more sound doctrinal teaching is the key for becoming transformed into the likeness of Christ.... who became the embodiment of all sound doctrine... "The Word made Flesh."

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory,
are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor 3:18​

That does not apply to all believers. Keep in mind. Paul wrote that to his congregation.

Paul was not a weak teacher, nor a false teacher. Paul was a doctrinal genius. That is why he could confidentially say that about those who were remaining positive to his teaching. Without sound doctrinal teaching no one can grow to know the mind of Christ. For His ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not what we can imagine. We must be shown. Otherwise? We transform Christ into our image. Into who we think we would be if we had his power.... Its why so many are in trouble today in churches that have weak teaching.

 

[Paidiske]

MOD HAT ON
This thread has been moved to the Ecclesiology forum.
Please note that the Statement of Purpose for General Theology applies in this forum.
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[GenemZ]

Some talk here like they were once under the Law. They have no idea what being under the Law was. What they were was being legalistic about certain issues. But, by no means under the Law.

Today without the Temple and its sacrifices, no one can live under the Law. When the issue about living under the Law was written the Temple was still standing. The Jerusalem church was involved with horrible apostasy! For they were still going to the Temple to offer animal sacrifices for their sins! That was living under the Law. It was also a blasphemy against the Cross of Christ.

People here talk about "being under the Law" and have no idea what it means. Grabbing a tiny part of the Law to put oneself under a small part of the Law is a defiance of the very Law they claim to follow. For it says if you err in only one part of the Law? You failed all the Law. Therefore, you must do all of it to be under the Law! There is no doing only a small part of the Law, and be able to claim being under the Law.

Its silly. It reveals believers not knowing what to do trying to figure out how to live without understanding the Christian way of life. So, why not quit Christianity and become a religious Jew if you want to live under the Law? And, make sure you do not have the filling of the Holy Spirit when you do. For you will not want the Spirit enabling freedom of the inner man. Because, you would need to be under Law to restrain your flesh.

Have fun. Wasting your time given to you by God when you should be glorifying Christ by learning how to walk in grace and truth.

 

[Alithis]

So, we Christians try not to live by the law as I understand. We live now through the salvation of Christ for what He did for us, and we as the Christian church made a statement to the jews that we no longer live by the law, so to make that statement bold and loud, the church changed worship days from Saturday, to Sunday.

My church on the other hand, do not go to the service for the sabbath at all however, not even to rest.. but to try to emulate and look like the church movement of Acts in the upper room.

We are not going there to rest, but to learn about God in a more of 'Bible' study format and to hear what God has to say to us through the scripture readings.. then pray together as the body of Christ, and using our spiritual gifts to go outside of our church walls and to tell the lost world about what sin is, and how Christ can save them from God's judgement toward that sin when they put their faith and trust in Him alone, not by following the law or by good works.

In other words, after the Sunday service, be on the great commission all week as the church together.

So, that is my understanding on what Sunday is for me and my local church here, the emulation of the church in the book of Acts.

What is your reasoning and understandings of it? I am putting some ideas together for a blog post coming up, looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say!

there simply is no command to meet on any particular day or time .
and there is no violation of any law in the act of "doing good" .
the freedom of this knowledge is freeing indeed .

 

[HeartenedHeart]

... the church changed worship days from Saturday, to Sunday.

I have read the Bible from Gen. to Rev., and I have never read, in any book, chapter or verse, passage or text, therein, of either the terms "Saturday" or "Sunday", so, if you please (or anyone) would you (or anyone) provide where the "church" did as you state from scripture?

Also, how could mankind legally change something which God commanded, even blessed forever?

Also, if you (or anyone pleases), since when was only the "jews" subject to God's Law (Ecc. 12:13-14, the word used is 'Adam' ('man'))? Was Moses a Jew? What of the mixed multitude that came out of Egypt also?

Also, the jew and gentile is to worship God at all times, not merely one day a week (where in scripture was anyone told to worship God only one day a week, old or new testament texts?), and so to say that the "church" "changed" the "worship" day from this to that is non-sensical. For if you refer to sabbath commandment of Exo. 20, it speaks of "rest", and included therein is the 'stranger' (foreigner, gentile, non-jew etc). The sabbath commandment itself, encompasses the entirety of the week, 6 working days and the 7th of rest, not merely one day in the week. Would you (or anyone) care to read Exo. 20:8-11 on this matter with me to see that?

 

[HeartenedHeart]

then pray together as the body of Christ, and using our spiritual gifts to go outside of our church walls and to tell the lost world about what sin is

What do you (or anyone may answer) think "sin" is? What Bible text do you have to define it?

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Oh yes I keep the sabbath (7th) day Holy.. which is Saturday

In actuality, or technicality, or even just plain scripture, the one (Saturday) is not the other (Sabbath), for the first is Roman time, calculated from midnight to midnight, and the second is Bible time, from evening unto evening (sunset to sunset).

Since it is as you state, that the 7th day, the Sabbath, is Holy, are any of the other days of the week (1-6) Holy in your understanding? If so, Book, chapter and verse please.

If persons want to gather together on any, or all days of the week for ministry, bible study, choir, fellowship, and like events, there is no law/command/injunction against doing so, just so long as one understands the difference between those things, and what the actual commandment is asking to be done.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

So, that is my understanding on what Sunday is for me and my local church here, the emulation of the church in the book of Acts.

The book of Acts, has more than the first two chapters, correct? Please consider looking at the whole of the book of Acts, in conjunction with the fulfilment of prophecy, such as in Isaiah 56:1-8, with John 10:16, and then on into Acts, such as in Acts 1:2, (4:24), 13:14,27,42,44, (14:15-16), 15:21, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4; and Hebrews 4.

When do those texts reveal that Jews and Gentiles, yea, even a whole city, come together to hear the word of God?

According to Paul, and others, the Gentiles were repenting unto God, see Acts 15:19, and see also Acts 14:15-16, and where it is being quoted from. Where is it being quoted from?

Acts 2, reveals the events of when the "day of Pentecost was fully come", which is a yearly event in the festal calendar of Lev. 23, not a weekly event. Jesus had gathered with them just ten day prior, which is not a first day of the week. Even when Jesus met with the disciples in the upper room, after spending some time with the two on the road to Emmaus, it was the second day of the week, being in the 'evening' time (the sun having already set, as it was about 7 miles walk from Emmaus back to Jerusalem), and the next meeting took place after 8 days, which no matter how one calculates that is also not a first day of the week, following that first evening meeting. The disciples met daily, Acts 2:46-47, 5:42, 6:1, but none of that says anything about a change of God's Law, by God, church, or anyone there does it?

 

[HeartenedHeart]

I would like to recommend a good series:

Feel free to look through the 36 video playlist, and pick which ones appeal to you by their title, though they are also good in their proper order, and let me know if anyone would like to discuss those topics here.

 

[Phil W]

So, we Christians try not to live by the law as I understand. We live now through the salvation of Christ for what He did for us, and we as the Christian church made a statement to the jews that we no longer live by the law, so to make that statement bold and loud, the church changed worship days from Saturday, to Sunday.

My church on the other hand, do not go to the service for the sabbath at all however, not even to rest.. but to try to emulate and look like the church movement of Acts in the upper room.

We are not going there to rest, but to learn about God in a more of 'Bible' study format and to hear what God has to say to us through the scripture readings.. then pray together as the body of Christ, and using our spiritual gifts to go outside of our church walls and to tell the lost world about what sin is, and how Christ can save them from God's judgement toward that sin when they put their faith and trust in Him alone, not by following the law or by good works.

In other words, after the Sunday service, be on the great commission all week as the church together.

So, that is my understanding on what Sunday is for me and my local church here, the emulation of the church in the book of Acts.

What is your reasoning and understandings of it? I am putting some ideas together for a blog post coming up, looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say!

As a Christian, everyday is the Lord's day.
Getting together with like minded brethren can happen everyday.
It is written..."He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it." (Rom 14:6)
Don't hold any day above another in regards to God...and don't find fault for another's belief on this matter.