Your stand on homosexuality?

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

Why do you think that is?

Is it because you think not one of them could read Greek?

It's because it's a stretch to translate malakoi as "homosexual" or arsenokoitai as "homosexual". According to most interpreters of St Paul in the early Church one could perform arsenokoitai on a woman and one could be malakoi by over-indulging in heterosexual sex. Contemporary Evangelical-inclined translations of the New Testament tend to translate both these words as "homosexual" though because the translators are very likely homophobic.

 

[Norm d'Plume]

However, it can clearly be demonstrated that many pedophiles are homosexual as well.

What is your "scientific" source for that?

 

[JoeP222w]

What is your "scientific" source for that?

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=is02e3

However, I suspect you may reject that which is shown in the link.

 

[Norm d'Plume]

I found this after dedicating less than 30 seconds of my life to this topic:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2011/10-anti-gay-myths-debunked

 

[JoeP222w]

I found this after dedicating less than 30 seconds of my life to this topic:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2011/10-anti-gay-myths-debunked

Regardless of battling scientific studies, the word of God says that homosexuality is sin and pedophilia is sin. Is their a connection between homosexuality and pedophilia, one can argue until the cows come home.

But the bottom line is that both homosexuality and pedophilia are defined as sin by God. They are not the pinnacle sin, but either sin (as with any other given sin) will bar you from entering the kingdom of God. But there is forgiveness from sin (any sin) through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, (10) nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


If one wants to call this "anti-gay", then so be it. I admit it, I am anti- [you name the sin]. I am anti-homosexual, anti-rape, anti-lying, anti-murder, anti-theft, anti-idolatry, anti-blasphemy, etc. If God has defined something as sin, by His grace, I will not call that thing righteous. That is not to say I don't battle against sin myself. But the point is, by the grace of God, I battle it.

It is better to obey God than man.

 

[tatteredsoul]

As the title suggests. Tell me what is your stance on homosexuality.

I believe that:

- Homosexuality is unnatural, but not a choice. It's a problem of the soul (either caused by satan or original sin or both)

- Homosexuals should not be discriminated...

-...but same-gender marriage and adoption of children for gay couples should not be allowed.

- You can be "cured" of homosexuality if it's God's will.

- I've had a bisexual and a gay friend. They only differ by their sexuality, unlike Fundamentalists claim: "THEY ARE ALL PEDOPHILES!!! THEY RAPE OUR CHILDREN!!!!!".

I would like to agree with you, but lately I don't know. I do think homosexuality is a sin, and no worse a sin, but if I went to church and said this I would be called a liberal homosexuality sympathizer/supporter. This happens when I talk about the severity of other sins when others get on homosexuality. It seems homosexuality is the worst possible sin in existence - one step below blaspheming the Holy Spirit. And I know people say, "oh all sin is equal...homosexuality is just like other sins." But, I don't see the same treatment toward people who fib, or fornicators, gossipers, revilers, people who get drunk, people who idlely support evil, etc.

And yet, that previous statement provides ammunition for calling people like me liberal homosexuality supporters, for example. On one hand, I question my position but on the other hand I am highly against the apparent hypocrisy of the other side.

 

[Sketcher]

I would like to agree with you, but lately I don't know. I do think homosexuality is a sin, and no worse a sin, but if I went to church and said this I would be called a liberal homosexuality sympathizer/supporter. This happens when I talk about the severity of other sins when others get on homosexuality. It seems homosexuality is the worst possible sin in existence - one step below blaspheming the Holy Spirit. And I know people say, "oh all sin is equal...homosexuality is just like other sins." But, I don't see the same treatment toward people who fib, or fornicators, gossipers, revilers, people who get drunk, people who idlely support evil, etc.

And yet, that previous statement provides ammunition for calling people like me liberal homosexuality supporters, for example. On one hand, I question my position but on the other hand I am highly against the apparent hypocrisy of the other side.

That depends on the church you go to, I guess.

 

[Sketcher]

It's because it's a stretch to translate malakoi as "homosexual" or arsenokoitai as "homosexual". According to most interpreters of St Paul in the early Church one could perform arsenokoitai on a woman and one could be malakoi by over-indulging in heterosexual sex. Contemporary Evangelical-inclined translations of the New Testament tend to translate both these words as "homosexual" though because the translators are very likely homophobic.

KJV-onlyists use the opposite argument against these modern translations. But in any case, since you say you are Catholic, here are the Catholic translations of 1 Cor 6:9-11:

New Jerusalem:

Do you not realise that people who do evil will never inherit the kingdom of God? Make no mistake -- the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, the self-indulgent, sodomites, thieves, misers, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers, none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. Some of you used to be of that kind: but you have been washed clean, you have been sanctified, and you have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and through the Spirit of our God.​

Duoay-Rheims:

Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God. And such some of you were; but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.​

I'm not seeing how these non-Evangelical (and one of them not at all modern) translations support your point about homosexuals not being referred to.

 

[tatteredsoul]

That depends on the church you go to, I guess.

If it depends on what church I go to, then the disunity of a religion that is supposed to be unity is painfully eye opening. Hence my denomination.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

KJV-onlyists use the opposite argument against these modern translations. But in any case, since you say you are Catholic, here are the Catholic translations of 1 Cor 6:9-11:

New Jerusalem:

Do you not realise that people who do evil will never inherit the kingdom of God? Make no mistake -- the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, the self-indulgent, sodomites, thieves, misers, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers, none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. Some of you used to be of that kind: but you have been washed clean, you have been sanctified, and you have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and through the Spirit of our God.​

Duoay-Rheims:

Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God. And such some of you were; but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.​

I'm not seeing how these non-Evangelical (and one of them not at all modern) translations support your point about homosexuals not being referred to.

For starters, it wouldn't make sense at all for "sodomite" to be the correct translation of "arsenokoitai" purely because a "Sodomite" in the first century would simply have meant a "resident of Sodom". However, you do see that malakoi translates, according to the New Jerusalem version as "self-indulgent" and this is a much better translation than "homosexual". The Duoay-Rheims translation seems to translate arsenokoitai literally, the term literally means "man-bed", so there's nothing there I specifically disagree with. My point is that when one looks at the first three centuries of interpretation of the term one get's the distinct feeling that an arsenokoitai is a violent rape act in the context of the master-slave dynamic.

 

[ChristsMercy]

It is blatantly wrong from a Christian perspective, which I am. I base my opinion on my faith, not to mention regardless of faith it is a perversion of nature and utterly stupid.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Nothing more need be said.

 

[Julie.S]

I believe people are born gay and some realize it later on.

I believe these people should never be discriminated against.

I have gay friends and ones who are a whole plethora of things. My cousin is gay and I would say we are very close now and I hope we are forever.

As someone who is adopted I would not have a fit if a gay couple raised a child as long as they do not abuse them but that goes for any family gay or not no one should abuse a child. I had a friend who had gay parents when I was in school and I even stayed over at their house sometimes. I had no problem with it and even when my mom explained to me what her parents situation was. I am still fine with it to this day and it does not bother me a bit.

 

[Radrook]

I started watching the TV series Spartacus expecting it to be something similar to the original one starring Kirk Douglass and what I encountered was a very graphic cesspool of adultery, fornication and homosexuality injected into the film every ten minutes or so. Completely unnecessary, absolutely irrelevant but obviously included with some agenda in mind.

It seems to me that there is definitely some type of concerted effort to convince kids and young adults who might chance to watch those films that such behavior is perfectly OK. The same holds true with the film 300 where the Spartans are depicted as openly homosexual. Once more totally unnecessary but included anyway with an obvious agenda in mind.

Apparently the lesson taught in Genesis involving Sodom and Gomorrah seems to have no effect on such directors.
In short, the message seems to be one of satanically supported anti biblical defiance.

 

[Hoghead1]

I am PCUSA and I supported my church's decision to admit gays and lesbians into the pulpit. I am well aware the Bible takes a dim view of homosexuality. However, I take a very dim view of many biblical laws. If you go through all the laws, you will find many we would not even begin to hold with and that the NT discharges us from. Paul dropped the old circumcision rule. Peter ha the vision of the table cloth with all the foods and was told all are clean, meaning all these picky OT culinary laws are now off. More than one biblical law would be considered outfight inhumane toady. For example, the OT sanctifies slavery, selling your daughter into slavery, and beating salves, just as long as you don't kill them. Incidentally, because of that , the South argued they had a divine right to keep slavery. So whether we want to admit it or not, we are all very picky about what OT laws we are going to keep and what not. I believe that persons of alternative sexual choices, including homosexuals, have been unduly discriminated against and oppressed down through the ages. The Bible may well have downed women and homosexuals, but I see no reason why we should continue to do so, anymore than I see any reason why we should follow any number of r other OT inhumane rules and silly practices.

 

[Julie.S]

Most Christians either support or are indifferent to marriage equality and gay rights. Sorry, but the days of yelling over and over in increasing volume "IT'S CLEARLY WRONG" being a compelling argument are over.

This is true and I have seen it.

 

[Julie.S]

We don't create a "Liars lobby" or "equal rights for liars" or "lying is ok if you like that sort of thing" in the Christian church.

We simply say it is wrong.

Yes but what if this causes harm to people on an emotional level and they never recover from it?

 

[BobRyan]

This is a good point - some liars or thieves might take that sort of condemnation of lying/stealing as a personal restriction on their liberty - when in fact it is just the Bible stand on the subject of lying or stealing.

 

[Widlast]

Yes but what if this causes harm to people on an emotional level and they never recover from it?

Then they need to grow up and get a grip on reality.

Nobody has the right to "not be offended".
If you do disgusting things and people notice, expect some criticism.

 

[Julie.S]

Then they need to grow up and get a grip on reality.

Nobody has the right to "not be offended".
If you do disgusting things and people notice, expect some criticism.

Yes indeed but what is disgusting is different for everyone. There are things in general that are but then there are specific things some find bad when others don't.

 

[Hoghead1]

Can"t say as I agree, ChristsMercy. I think a great deal more needs to be said. I am wondering how many gays or other persons of alternative sexual lifestyles you have fever known. I have an M.S.; in clinical psychology, am a licensed substance-abuse counselor, and have had oodles of experience with gays, lesbians, you name it. I find nothing sick, bizarre, or perverse in these people. Psychiatry now accepts such persons and no longer writes them off as sick, perverse, etc. Therefore, psychiatry has officially removed persons of alternative sexual lifestyles, such as gays, form its list of psychopathologies in the DSM-IV.