Your sex is determined by what is between your legs when you are born...

[Dave-W]

What about your children...? Or if two men are making out in public or grabbing and or slapping each others butts around or in front of your children,

We live in a fallen world. WHat if your children are in a school and see half of their classmates shot and killed by some deranged killer?

Stuff happens because mankind is fallen and evil.

 

[Neogaia777]

Actually it is GOD who makes that choice. We do not choose that for ourselves or anyone else.

And, how does God make that choice or determination...?

 

[Neogaia777]

We live in a fallen world. WHat if your children are in a school and see half of their classmates shot and killed by some deranged killer?

Stuff happens because mankind is fallen and evil.

We didn't choose that, but we are choosing "this"...

 

[Dave-W]

And, how does God make that choice or determination...?

We will have to ask Him that when we get to the other side.

 

[blackribbon]

Not that simple.

Clearly it has been long recognized that a minority of people do not fall easily (from physical observation) into either male or female. Modern understanding can further complicate the issue, with things such as Swyers Syndrome and male/female chimerism.

We as a church needs to discuss this issue to determine who those people can marry without sinning.

Why does the church need to decide this? Why not the individual based on who they believe they are? In the case of Swyers, they are likely to be raised female because their parts look female (neither develop so that person is basically sexless). In the case of chimerism, that isn't something usually known to even be an issue since we don't test people for this. Why should the church even know that a young person has Swyers as long as she has shared it with her intended?

 

[Neogaia777]

We will have to ask Him that when we get to the other side.

He won't give us those answers now...? or maybe He already has were just not looking right, ect...? And how can we be looking right with all of "this" that says "you get to pick and choose"...?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I say that this is really a minor issue and one that you can't change and aren't going to change no matter how many times you discuss it. The truth is that we should be treating each person we meet with respect and Christ-like love. You don't need to know someone's sex or even their identity to do that. Leave the sexual identity part to God to address by praying for them.

Unfortunately the world will not allow one to do that in peace. There is a growing trend in which some insist that we confess Caesar as Lord by saying in either by word or by deed that what we believe to be false is true and what believe to be true is false. I admit that there is the possibility that I might be wrong in my beliefs and I have no problem accepting that another person has beliefs I find to be false and simply accept them as another human being no less worthy than myself if that person did not insist that it was not morally acceptable and ought to be legally prohibited to hold the belief I hold.

 

[Zoii]

I meant masculate or more masculine females, I'll go back and change that, it was a typo...

God Bless!

Im curious - why does a man who is not some beefy aggro guy, but instead softer emotionally and physically....why does that bother you so much. Seriously who cares??

But as to your OP - I wish in your opening statement you excluded gender genetic disorders at the very least. I find your brash accusations so offensive towards this group who experience so much hardship because of attitudes from many; predominantly Christians.

 

[blackribbon]

We didn't choose that, but we are choosing "this"...

What do you me "WE" are choosing this? I think it is the individuals making the choice. When did you choose your sexual identity? I know I didn't choose mine. I just had it from birth.

 

[Dave-W]

Why does the church need to decide this?

Because Our Lord conveyed this authority on the church. THat is what the passages about "binding and loosing" are all about.

Why not the individual based on who they believe they are?

That falls into what the bible condemns:

Deuteronomy 12:8
“You shall not do at all what we are doing here today, every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes;​

 

[Neogaia777]

Im curious - why does a man who is not some beefy aggro guy, but instead softer emotionally and physically....why does that bother you so much. Seriously who cares??

It doesn't, in fact I am a softer male than most I think and more effeminate than some... And we care due to the huge risk were taking with our society, children, and next generations, ect...

But as to your OP - I wish in your opening statement you excluded gender genetic disorders at the very least. I find your brash accusations so offensive towards this group who experience so much hardship because of attitudes from many; predominantly Christians.

Yeah, they are so completely innocent and do absolutely nothing to bring any of this upon themselves or ever incur any of those kinds of things either, right...?

And, so, why does it/that/this bother you so much...?

God Bless!

 

[Dave-W]

Yeah, they are so completely innocent and do absolutely nothing to bring any of this upon themselves or ever incur any of those kinds of things either, right...?

Are you implying that people with Swyers or chimeras are responsible for their situation?

 

[Zoii]

It doesn't, in fact I am a softer male than most I think and more effeminate than some... And we care due to the huge risk were taking with our society, children, and next generations, ect...



Yeah, they are so completely innocent and do absolutely nothing to bring any of this upon themselves or ever incur any of those kinds of things either, right...?

And, so, why does it/that/this bother you so much...?

God Bless!

Good - so you agree..those with genetic gender dysmorphia should NOT be criticised by Christians and you rescind your comments when it comes to this cohort.

 

[Neogaia777]

What do you me "WE" are choosing this? I think it is the individuals making the choice. When did you choose your sexual identity? I know I didn't choose mine. I just had it from birth.

"We" are all choosing "this" (all of this that we have been talking about) either by our own consent or agreement, or just not saying anything about it anymore, and in that way "We" are "all" doing "it/that/this"... "We" are all choosing "it" for our society, our children, nations, ect, but/and it's a huge gamble if you ask me...

God Bless!

 

[blackribbon]

Because Our Lord conveyed this authority on the church. THat is what the passages about "binding and loosing" are all about.

That falls into what the bible condemns:

Deuteronomy 12:8
“You shall not do at all what we are doing here today, every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes;​

Why does the church get to vote on a the sexual identity of a baby that is born without a clear one? Why is a church matter? Is the child in sin if the child feels more male or more female without the church elders having a vote? How can you even believe that this situation falls under Deut 12:8?

 

[Dave-W]

Why does the church get to vote on a the sexual identity of a baby that is born without a clear one?

"Vote?" The church should NEVER vote on anything. Doctrine cannot be determined by democracy. It must be determined by revelation from the Holy Spirit.

Why is a church matter?

There are several passages, most from the end of our Lord's earthly time, where he told his disciples to establish halicha and to forgive or retain sins. So it is up to the church to discharge that responsibility.

How can you even believe that this situation falls under Deut 12:8?

By determining for themselves, they are doing "what is right in their own eyes." That is why.

 

[Neogaia777]

Good - so you agree..those with genetic gender dysmorphia should NOT be criticised by Christians and you rescind your comments when it comes to this cohort.

I just hope that our pursuit of equal rights, including gender issues, ect, for everyone equally, ect... I hope that our pursuit of these things does not cost us way more than were willing to pay or can even possibly pay, which is why we need to try and count the cost now, figure out if were really willing to pay, ect, or else...

And, I agree that you should not be criticized, persecuted, ect... But this is not about you personally or individually, and is not leveled against you personally or individually, so please stop taking it as such OK...? There are larger concerns, (and some of them having to do with this), to be concerned about, that, that is not just about "just you", or "just me", ect...

God Bless!

 

[blackribbon]

"We" are all choosing "this" (all of this that we have been talking about) either by our own consent or agreement, or just not saying anything about it anymore, and in that way "We" are "all" doing "it/that/this"... "We" are all choosing "it" for our society, our children, nations, ect, but/and it's a huge gamble if you ask me...

God Bless!

I still don't get why you believe this is such a big issue. I believe that the anger and hatred toward other people is the greatest sin. In real life, my sexuality is not affected by the sexuality of another person. I can talk to another person without needing to know what exists between their legs. I can laugh with them, I can pray for them, I can buy my groceries from them. I won't be harmed in any way nor with my children who were also born with their gender identity intact.

As for being able to identify woman from man...good luck. I work on an all women's unit and had a patient who looked like an old man when she took her wig off....enough that several nurses questioned why we had a man on our unit. I admitted her and did her admission assessment and can guarantee that she was very much a woman in body and personality. But without that wig, she looked like Danny Devito and she had a lower raspy voice from a lifetime of smoking. Be careful whom you judge less you be judged.

I find a lot of Godly preachers to be more effeminate and I am sure the mission field is grateful for nuns and female missionaries who were a bit masculine in character and strength. God made all kinds of people because we need all kinds of people. Stop wondering if the woman next to you is a guy unless you are thinking about asking her out. In that situation, it might be fair to actually ask if you tell her why. Same goes for the effeminate looking man..you don't need to know if he is a boy or a girl.

 

[blackribbon]

I just hope that our pursuit of equal rights, including gender issues, ect, for everyone equally, ect... I hope that our pursuit of these things does not cost us way more than were willing to pay or can even possibly pay, which is why we need to try and count the cost now, figure out if were really willing to pay, ect, or else...

And, I agree that you should not be criticized, persecuted, ect... But this is not about you personally or individually, and is not leveled against you personally or individually, so please stop taking it as such OK...? There are larger concerns, (and some of them having to do with this), to be concerned about, that, that is not just about "just you", or "just me", ect...

God Bless!

Do you believe that male rights should be somehow different than female rights?

 

[Neogaia777]

Do you believe that male rights should be somehow different than female rights?

No, but who they are or how they identify themselves should be...

God Bless!

 

[blackribbon]

"Vote?" The church should NEVER vote on anything. Doctrine cannot be determined by democracy. It must be determined by revelation from the Holy Spirit.

There are several passages, most from the end of our Lord's earthly time, where he told his disciples to establish halicha and to forgive or retain sins. So it is up to the church to discharge that responsibility.

By determining for themselves, they are doing "what is right in their own eyes." That is why.

If a person is born sexless, why would it be a sin to marry a man or a woman? Why should a doctrine be established? How is being born sexless a sin? What exactly would be the doctrine that needs to be established?....and why hasn't it been already since these people already exist and do get married?