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Featured Your not under the law, you are under grace...?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neogaia777, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Thanks guys, I appreciate it,

    Peace,

    God Bless!
     
  2. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    If one reads Romans 8, I think they will find the answer to this paradox.
    Way to many people are only considering the performance of the flesh (our physical body). They also do not understand the war between the body of flesh and the soul.

    bugkiller
     
  3. bugkiller

    bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    Why are you referencing Hebrews and quoting Romans?

    bugkiller
     
  4. stuart lawrence

    stuart lawrence Well-Known Member

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    How does being under grace and not law give you the ability to overcome sin?

    The penalty of sin brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings much allurement to sin
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    In the NT "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
    In the NT the 5th commandment "is the first commandment WITH a promise" Ephesians 6:2 in that still valid - unit of TEN.
    In the NT the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Revelation 14:12
    In the NT "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Corinthians 7:19
    In the NT we show Love for God - by "Keeping His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
    In the NT Christ quotes from Exodus 20:6 saying "Love Me - Keep My Commandments" John 14:15

    So then as you point out in Romans 6 ... what is going on in the Gospel that Romans 6:1-20 so clearly points to freedom from slavery to sin under the Gospel.

    Hebrews 8:6-10 is a good answer from the "NEW Covenant" where the LAW of God is written on heart and mind under the Gospel. Unchanged from Jeremiah 31:31-33 which is being quoted there.


    Romans 8:4-9 says that the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they" and this is contrasted in Romans 8 with the case of the saints -- in those same verses.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. DarthNeo

    DarthNeo Active Member

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    Accepting Christ, the propitiation for God's wrath toward sin, freed us from the penalty of sin...
     
  7. Shempster

    Shempster ImJustMe Supporter

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    Upon looking at the big picture, it appears to me that the "law" was God's way of dealing with the Jews. Gentiles have a new revelation and a new law to live by. I sort of see Paul's version of this new gospel for a new people was just that.....Paul's version. Meaning the way he understood it.
    I have often read Paul's letters and I don't sense the tone that he intended to be writing scripture to be followed by all.
    Could it be that we Gentiles should have our own "Paul experience"? Would it be OK if it looked or sounded a little different than the one we memorized?If you look close enough, Paul does seem to just walk all over many of Yeshuas teachings. Like calling no man your Father and no man your teacher. Plus the idea that Yeshua had high regard for the law in his words and actions and Paul seem to bury the law as if it was worthless.
    It's just something to think about.
    I shouldn't wonder if nearly everyone has a different revelation of God. We are all in growth stages, so we should not attack others for being on a different level.
     
  8. D2wing

    D2wing Newbie

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    To be under the law of grace you must be a follower of Jesus Christ meaning he is your lord and master. It not just saying you are a Christian without repentance and commitment to Jesus. In return he sends his Holy Spirit as well as the Bible to guide you in following him. To willfully sin means you are not really following him. Of course we are under grace if we fail on occasion, but if we persist in following Jesus we will overcome sin. This can be a gray area I think that only God can judge.. The Bible says our work is believing in Christ, (him who God sent) meaning keeping the faith. God is the Judge of who is really following him, not us.
    Of course gratitude plays a part as well. We who have been saved from sin and been given the peace of the Holy Spirit should have boundless Gratitude grace and love. In theory anyway.
     
  9. PropheticTimes

    PropheticTimes Lord Have Mercy Supporter

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    I hope this helps a little, I came across it in my daily study this morning and upon reading your thread the Lord brought it to mind so perhaps it waas meant for you today? Anyway, here it goes --

    1 Thessalonians 2:10: "You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed."

    Fire Bible Global Study Edition Notes
    Paul does not accept the misguided view of some Christians who believe that the sin-covering sacrifice of Christ is sufficient for us to receive forgiveness but not sufficient enough to totally free us from the continued control of sin. This unbiblical teaching encouraged believers to accept sin as a natural part and an acceptable influence in the Christian life. Paul pleaded for them to look at his own life as an example that this is not true.
    1. He begs them to remember his own conduct among the Thessalonians; he was "holy, righteous and blameless." In other words, he showed complete moral purity and spiritual integrity. He did what was right and behaved in such a way that no one could justly accuse him of wrongdoing.
    2. Paul called both the church and God himself as witnesses that God's grace (i.e., his unearned favor, love and spiritual enablement) provided enough motivation and power to purify himself "from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God" (2 Corinthians 1:12; 2:17; 6:3-10; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 2 Timothy 1:3). This does not mean that Christians will never sin, but they do not have to sin; God's power is always sufficient for us to overcome and remain free from sin if we rely on him and follow the Holy Spirit's guidance.
     
  10. Thursday

    Thursday Well-Known Member

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    Does a man reap what he sows?
     
  11. Near

    Near In Christ we rise

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    I don't speak for all people. What I've said doesn't apply to an ambiguous "we".
    So, for those who walk in the light, i.e. not living in sin, he cleanses those people, and they are walking without sin for the time in their lives in which they are walking in the light.
    Jesus cleanses us from sin, once we have stepped out of the darkness and into the light.
    The blood of Jesus does not cleanse sins of people who currently practice lawlessness. If I go to a bar and get drunk, I'm not cleansed from that sin, while I'm drunk. Only after repentance is one cleansed.
    When it comes to the body, you must mean bodies we can't be tempted in, rather than sinless bodies. Since the body itself, the organs, and bones, actually do not contain any sins. It is our own souls that bear sin. As for temptations from our bodies, no temptation is too strong to overcome, wouldn't you agree?

    1 John 1:
    6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

    So, being cleansed is conditional upon walking in the light.

    I don't think the christian life is one that is constantly getting dirty, or perhaps in other words, constantly living in sin. You're either clean, or unclean, not both at the same time.
     
  12. Near

    Near In Christ we rise

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    I don't speak for all people. What I've said doesn't apply to an ambiguous "we".
    So, for those who walk in the light, i.e. not living in sin, he cleanses those people, and they are walking without sin for the time in their lives in which they are walking in the light.
    Jesus cleanses us from sin, once we have stepped out of the darkness and into the light.
    The blood of Jesus does not cleanse sins of people who currently practice lawlessness. If I go to a bar and get drunk, I'm not cleansed from that sin, while I'm drunk. Only after repentance is one cleansed.
    When it comes to the body, you must mean bodies we can't be tempted in, rather than sinless bodies. Since the body itself, the organs, and bones, actually do not contain any sins. It is our own souls that bear sin. As for temptations from our bodies, no temptation is too strong to overcome, wouldn't you agree?

    1 John 1:
    6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

    So, being cleansed is conditional upon walking in the light.
     
  13. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus cleansed you from sin then you would not sin ever again.. You went to a bar and got drunk then you would not be cleansed from sin because you sinned and thus that would show you are not a true Christian by your works salvation preaching.. Either Jesus cleanses us from sin or He does not.. You cannot say Jesus has cleansed you from sin and then ever sin again.. You have just broken your own preaching and demonstrated it to be false..

    So yeah your either clean or unclean .. you cannot be both at the same time and the next time you sin you can declare yourself unsaved according to your own preaching.. And you can be assured you will sin in the future without any doubt...
     
  14. Near

    Near In Christ we rise

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    First off, let's recognize that we are operating on two different paradigms, and we shouldn't act as if we are operating on one.
    "You have just broken your own preaching and demonstrated it to be false," is what you claim, but remember we're not operating on the same set of doctrines, so you wouldn't really know exactly what my beliefs are on the subject, so I wouldn't be demonstrating my beliefs are false, since I'm not operating according to your rule.
    Allow me to explain.
    If Jesus cleansed me from sin, I would recognize that I'd be cleansed as long as I remain walking in the light. I recognize that fact that one can depart from the faith, as well as simply return to sin. So, I don't think the statement, "If Jesus cleansed you from sin then you would not sin ever again" is true, and I don't see why I would think that. What about being cleansed negates the possibility of becoming dirty again? We still have freewill.

    As for being assured that I will sin again in the future, please don't say that. That's basically an insult, like you're actually attacking me personally telling me that I'm destined to be a moral failure who will fornicate, get drunk, steal, and turn into a complete dirt-bag. Some godly edification, and encouragement would be nice, rather than a defeatist mentality which does not uplift.
     
  15. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    When you do, your covered... Is that edifying...?

    It'll keep you humble though, help to keep things in perspective...

    God Bless!
     
  16. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    I can only go on what you preach.. If you say Jesus cleanses you of sin then you are claiming Jesus cleanses you of sin.. Now i believe Jesus is LORD and therefore perfect and if He cleansed you of sin then you would be sinless and you would never ever sin again if you where clean and no longer living in sin... See people read what you preach and take your words as read.. So they know that you do sin and will sin again and thus they know that your preaching is false and Not Christian at all.. Unless that is you actually believe your own preaching and you actually believe you are sinless now and have never sinned since the day you where saved??? Of course if you believe that then i would call you delusional and in denial of your continuing sin..

    I will tell you that you will sin in the future because i know you are just a mortal man and thus faulty and thus you will sin again.. You can accept that truth or deny it as much as you like.. You can be offended if you like too.. But you trying to undermine the Faith and hope of others by preaching that people are not saved if they sin really is a toxic thing to say to other Children of God.. You are an accuser and a false messenger of God preaching another Gospel and you shall be judged by the Gospel you preach and you will be found guilty of the sins you do because you have not trusted in the Atonement of Jesus alone but upon your sin avoidance performance... Well you will need to have a perfect record in your sin avoidance record.. One sin .. One sin only and you are doomed..
     
  17. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Hey, he's just in that stage where he's trying to do away with his sin due to his love for the Lord (maybe in his own strength and effort right now) and/because he really, really does not want to go back into sin again (although he eventually will, and may be already) but, he's just at a stage where he really does not want to sin and is trying to find a way not to...

    And, we can't or shouldn't tell him that it's going to fail, if, "If" we don't find a way to help him cope with the fact that it fails, so, when he fails, (or perhaps already has or is right now), we should find a way to help him cope with the alternative, which is the truth that he is an always will be a "sinner" but a forgiven, bought and paid for in full, sinner..

    I can understand how him trying to accept that can make him feel very defeated and beat down, where he's at right now... But, how can he cope with the truth, this truth we are trying to tell him...?

    Any Ideas...?

    God Bless!
     
  18. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Should he just "give up" on not sinning anymore or what?, cause many people we force this truth upon feel very defeated afterward when it comes to the sin problem, so, what should we tell him/them...?

    God Bless!
     
  19. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I know, and agree... but, how do we "help" them, they're our brothers and sisters after all... After all, I was like them once before...

    God Bless!
     
  20. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I can hear them saying "what do we do"...? We don't know any other way...?

    How do we let go of our pride...? Our entire identity has been wrapped up in it for so long, we will surely fall into great sin and lose ourselves without it...?

    What do we do...? How do we do it in this way that you say...?

    Help us...?

    How do we help them...?

    I'm trying to remember my own transition, but am having trouble...?

    God Bless!
     
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