Your not under the law, you are under grace...?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neogaia777, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Your not under the law, you are under grace...?

    And the gospel of grace is the truth, and the love is the truth and will "set you free"...

    Set you free from what? Sin and death, or sin causing death, or sin...

    How does being under grace and not under law, keep you from or give you the ability to do away with sin...?

    The "gratefulness" does and will... The degree to which you feel that gratefulness will determine how much and to what degree you do away with and get set free from sin, and all it causes or brings in your life...

    Your very deep and the depth of the degree that you are so very, very grateful to God/Christ for all he did, and the depths to which you understand all that he did, will produce the great thankfulness and gratefulness which kind of love it produces for him, will create a strong desire in you not to sin anymore...

    Then you don't want to sin, being so, so, very, deeply thankfully and gratefully appreciative of all he did to pay for your sin, to absolve you, to give you a grace period that will last till the day you die...

    The depth of the appreciation for all God/Christ did for you, the depths to which you understand that, will be the power or degree to which you won't want to, and will not eventually sin anymore, and be free from all that sin does and causes, in your life...

    People who use grace as an excuse to sin, are not "getting it" their not properly valuing and are greatly disrespecting all that God/Christ did for them personally... Their spitting on the great gift that Christ gives, which is and was "himself" in our place...

    The degree to which you understand this, and the deep gratefulness that this should produce, along with the great love and appreciation for him and yourself that this should produce, should measure how well you are able (this will determine the level of your ability) to conquer and do away with sin...

    Comments...?

    God Bless!
     
  2. timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    The verse for it:

    Jude 1:4
    For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
     
  3. Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Yet still no human is sinless.
    Therefore:
    Ones performance in sin avoidance has no bearing on their eternal destination if they believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement He secured for the forgiveness of their sins..
     
  4. Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    One's performance in sin avoidance might have some bearing, BUT, if it does, no one, too often not even the person themselves can judge where that person should be with it, at any given point in their life, but, only God alone knows and can...

    Surely a person cannot intentionally and deliberately sin a lot, and still believe with absolute surety that they are saved...

    And sin is what destroy's us, even if we are saved for the next life, in this life, it destroy's our societies and our own personal lives, and brings sorrow and depression and misery and anguish and torment... Why wouldn't you want to do away with it (sin) and not do it (sin)...?

    I'm looking for something that will give us real, true power, and will truly empower us to do away with sin...?

    What will do it/that...?

    God Bless!
     
  5. Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    What do you think of this scripture, @Adstar...?

    God Bless!
     
  6. Near In Christ we rise

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    Well, if you believe Jesus cleanses us from all sin, we are sinless, and without sin. Sin avoidance from that point on, after we've been cleansed is merely a continued work of God with us, and working in us. So, a better way to put it is this, man can be sinless, if God is working that in him.
    If I am in Christ, and walking in the spirit, I am sinless, and we can all be sinless.
    1 John 1:7
    but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
     
  7. Near In Christ we rise

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    What I've learned is good intentions only go so far. A man can dedicate himself to living godly one day, yet he may become weary, lose wisdom by not having the right mind at a moment, and then he can act according to the flesh. That seems to be how sin can creep up in the life of a christian. What I'm trying to do is keep wisdom in my mind, the goal to do the right thing, and to try to have feelings that motivate me to persist in doing good. I've noticed that being tired, or not getting enough sleep, and having an unhealthy life, as well as bad time management can very well lead to sin. So, implementing good habits, being healthy, keeping one's eye on the prize, and doing all that as a christian, is probably a practice that will lead to good results, including sinless living. Essentially, what I'm describing is being disciplined. In mind, and in behavior through proper habit formation, and diligence.
    All of that, with a purpose, to love God, and abide in God.
     
  8. Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Were sinners and we sin, yet are sinless...? We are guilty, yet innocent... Seems like were all walking contradictions to me...

    But, I know what you are saying, that sin is not charged against us when we are covered by and are in Christ, even when we do sin, right?

    But, I really, really, really, really, do not, absolutely do not want to sin anymore, and I hope others feel this way too... I want to know, "How" to do away with, conquer, and not sin at all anymore...

    Not cause I have anything to prove, to myself and or others, or even God, just that because deep down I feel, so, so very bad, that Jesus "had to do" even when he didn't want to, but HAD TO, do all that he did, and I know he would be very grateful, if we would place the proper value on that...

    And, if we did place the appropriate value on that, would that be able to keep us from sinning anymore...?

    Peace,

    God Bless!
     
  9. Big Drew Believer Supporter

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    That's my issue with the concept of total depravity and original sin...I believe we have to change our perspective...the problem is we start at the fall of man, but we have to go back to the creation...what did God say about His creation, that it was very good...so when we view ourselves as sinners, based on Adam's fall it paints God's creation in a negative light.

    I'm not saying we don't sin, we do...but we're not responsible for the sin of Adam anymore than we're responsible for what our mothers and fathers did. They answer for that, not us. What Adam did was open the door...he got tempted, and he gave in to the temptation...which is what all of us do.

    God created man in His image, God is perfection, God is everything good...so if we're made in His image, then we are made good...and, if we're made in His image then we gain certain characteristics...God is all knowing, right? So when we look at the story of the fall we see that when the serpent came into the garden and began tempting Eve, curiosity got the best of her and she took a bite of the fruit..."I wonder what will happen if I disobey God?" Then she tempted Adam and he had the same thought...they knew it was wrong, yet they did it anyway...because they needed to know.

    I think if we can change our way of viewing ourselves, negatively, as sinners, and look at it in the positive, that we are good but at times make bad choices which cause us to sin, then our whole outlook on salvation can change.
     
  10. AnticipateHisComing Newbie Supporter

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    Jesus did not abolish the law. We are not free from punishment/discipline in this age for breaking the law. Through Jesus' death the sins of the saved will be atoned for on judgement day such that we will not receive eternal punishment for them. The damned, lacking atonement will be judged by the law, still in force.

    Hebrews 9:21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
     
  11. Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Most of us have been disobeying God for so long, (under, covered by grace) already, that we just want to how to obey God, and be what he wants us to be already, well, maybe that's just me, but...

    I want to find the "power" to be able to do so, and thinking on what it would take for me and others to do so...

    I thought something like figuring out this: What did Christ do...? Trying to compile a list of all he did, is doing, and has done, for us...?

    Might enable me and possibly others to do so...

    Peace,

    God Bless!
     
  12. Near In Christ we rise

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    No, I'm talking about both being free from the behavioral practice of sin, both externally and internally, as well as being forgiven by God, with sin not charged against us anymore. We are however, guilty of sin. Guilty, yet forgiven. Not innocent, but redeemed. No contradictions at all.

    Like I said, it's basically discipline in Christ. Perhaps constantly dwelling on the value of what Christ did can keep a person from committing sin, but there's more to it than that. Like I said, people get tired, they go to sleep, get distracted, and their wisdom and thoughts may go from holy to not quite holy. In order to perpetually be free from sin, in every way except since birth because we can't undo our past sins, we must have discipline.
     
  13. timewerx the village i--o--t--

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    You must place "@" before the username so the person you mentioned will receive a notification. After you type the @username, a selection will appear shortly and you must click it for example:

    @Neogaia777

    You can also duplicate my message and the verse I quoted, I won't protest!

    Cheers!
     
  14. Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Oh, OK, I'll try that, thanks,

    Peace,

    God Bless!
     
  15. RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    We already have the power to do so. The issue is we are trying to do it in the flesh....And the bible says that in the flesh, NO MAN can please God. When you look at others and see sin, you are using your carnal mind which is enmity against God. When you put on the mind of Christ, you, like Christ, can look at the adulterer and not condemn them. I find that when I see sin in others.....It is in me....Then I take the beam out.

    I never understood the statement of "Grace being a license to Sin." What kind of statement is that? Who, once saved, thinks and tells other that it is ok to commit certain "sins" because Grace covers them? I've never heard this except from those trying to condemn others for not being as "righteous" as themselves.
     
  16. Adstar Well-Known Member

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    Once a person adds their sin avoidance performance as another factor that wins them eternal salvation then they have rejected the gift of salvation by the Atonement of the Messiah Jesus.. They are denying the sufficiency of the Atonement of the Messiah Jesus to save them by adding their own works / efforts at sin avoidance into the calculation...

    One cannot willfully engage in sin.. That is Biblical.. Wilful sin is sinning with an in your face attitude towards God.. It is not sinning because of normal human weakness which all humans are curses by..

    Hebrews 10: KJV
    {26} For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

    So you want to create a perfect sinless society on earth in these faulty flesh bodies? Sorry to tell you that your dream is unobtainable in this world.. Our efforts at sin avoidance can lower the level of damage we do to ourselves and others but no one on this earth will achieve a sinless state of being.. It has nothing to do with desire to do away with sin.. We can desire it with all our heart and mind but it is impossible while we are in this current state of being..

    Nothing is going to do that in this world... But believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for us will see to it that we shall have that desire in the next world...
     
  17. Adstar Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus cleansed us from all sins in this life then we would be living sinless lives... The Atonement of Jesus covers all our sins we sin in this life.. God will cleanse us from all sins upon the day of the resurrection when we will be given perfect eternal sinless bodies..

    So Jesus Blood is cleansing us continually through our lives. we are constantly being washed because we are constantly getting dirty and are in need of continual cleansing.
     
  18. bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    John 3 explains one needs to be born again. I am born again which means I am a new creature. As such I have a new heart (new focus) which does not desire to sin. So effectively I have no need for the law. Please read also Romans and Galatians. Both talk extensively about this.

    bugkiller
     
  19. bugkiller Well-Known Member

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    So true these days. Not much has changed in this regard.

    bugkiller
     
  20. Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Psalms 119:29 Put false ways far from me and graciously teach me your law!

    Our salvation involves Jesus giving himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness and being trained by grace to do what is Lawful (Titus 2:11-14) and sin is defined as the transgression of God's Law (1 John 3:4), so we are not under the law leading to sin and death when we are being trained by grace through faith to obey God's Law.