Your interpretation =/= What the scripture means

SBC

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sbc,

1. You have shown you are untruthful, unbiblical, dishonest, unfair, and phony, not me.
This is not funny because your soul is at stake. Jerry Kelso


No my soul is not at stake.
And no there is nothing funny about Spiritual things.
It is your tactics and endless accusations, while proclaiming your love, that is sad and funny, as is much of your teaching.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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jerry kelso

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No my soul is not at stake.
And no there is nothing funny about Spiritual things.
It is your tactics and endless accusations, while proclaiming your love, that is sad and funny, as is much of your teaching.

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. That’s funny you are the one whose tactics are atrocious.
You run, skate and change your story and are untruthful and think that you are next to God.
You didn’t seem to like that I didn’t agree with your position and gave you scripture that you were wrong.
You’re supposed to give a rebuttal and proof but you couldn’t and the crazier and outlandish remarks you made were ridiculous .
I said some things I would not necessarily make but you were more than rude and not being truthful and doing all the nasty tactics.
I don’t mind somebody being strong and set in their position but to be unfair by being untruthful and giving no proof or general statements or that is not conducive to the context is not right.
I tried to start over again with you in a normal conversation and you got worst. You have no teaching. Jerry Kelso
 
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SBC

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sbc,

I tried to start over again with you in a normal conversation

Why? I find nothing normal about you doing the thinking and talking for both of us.

and you got worst.

Funny. You stayed consistent with your snide and snarky personal comments.

You have no teaching.

You have no QUOTE feature.

:sleep:

God Bless,
SBC
 
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he-man

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Disagree.

The WORD of God, IS Truthful Knowledge.
The written word of God, IS FULL of instructions, guidance, information on HOW TO serve God, according to HIS Principles, HIS standards, HIS WAY that pleases Him, and Glorifies His great names.

Agree.
God, thee all-knowing, who knew you, in the womb, before you knew you.
He knew you, your election and choosing of Him, before you knew.
And it IS those who chose Him, that HE CALLS.
And thereafter, WHEN a man answers His CALL, and gives their Life to the Lord...

Then does such a man have FULL 24-7 access to His indwelling Spirit...to seek, to ask...
For His Wisdom, His Understanding of His Word, His guidanace for any individual situation, etc.

God Bless,
SBC
John 6:65; John 6:44; Matthew 11:27; No one can come to me except the Father first draws him.
 
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he-man

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Uh huh, didn't disagree with that.
God Bless,
SBC
But why did you say, "it is those who chose Him that He calls and thereafter?"
Disagree. And it IS those who chose Him, that HE CALLS. And thereafter, WHEN a man answers His CALL, and gives their Life to the Lord...
Then does such a man have FULL 24-7 access to His indwelling Spirit...to seek, to ask... For His Wisdom, His Understanding of His Word, His guidanace for any individual situation, etc. God Bless, SBC
 
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jerry kelso

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Why? I find nothing normal about you doing the thinking and talking for both of us.



Funny. You stayed consistent with your snide and snarky personal comments.



You have no QUOTE feature.

:sleep:

God Bless,
SBC

sbc,

1. Snide and snarky is not really true but it is better than your consistent untruthful and dishonest remarks.
You also have no quote feature either because you fell asleep. Lol!
Lol! Lol!Lol! Jerry kelso
 
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Sheep dog

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GREEK

Contributed to the cause by the one buzzing around as, Buzz_B :)

We can make all sorts of claims, such as that all we need do is read our Bibles and trust God to do his part via the holy spirit and reveal the meaning to us he desires us to see. But what we are really doing is trusting in men, indeed, trusting in the men, not only the men who did the translating into our preferred language but also trusting in the men who then chose how those translated words would be placed together in an ordered exegeses more fitting to our preferred language.

The above fact alone creates huge problems for us but that problem is worsened when we lack faith that he who is in us is stronger than he who is in the world, so that we fear and shun learning from sources just because we fear those sources. Yet that is understandable to a degree when we are speaking of babes in Christ. Let those of us who have matured, be mature and dispense with that fear, knowing it is a poor substitute for faithfulness. Always we rightly advise the exercise of caution for the sake of our babes but we are not babes. He who is in us IS stronger than he who is in the world.

There are also other factors involved with our own immediate interpretations which can either allow or disallow us to build truth. An example would be as simple as the phrase “doth not commit sin” which occurs at 1 John 3:9 in the KJV. This particular case calls attention to the need for our translators to have a good understanding of the Koine' (the common non-literary type) Greek tenses which was used in the early Hellenist period when our New Testament writings were first being composed. So let us take a quick look at that. Rather than to doggedly search out my own wording I will quote from reference sources in places within them that I have tested and found to be reliable. If anyone desires further education in the Greek I would recommend the Phillip's Academy located at 180 Main St, Andover, Massachusetts, United States , 01810, located about 25 miles North of Boston.

The following excerpt, which I have determined to be very reliable, is from *** it-1 pp. 1006-1010 Greek *** (it = Insight on the Scriptures published in 1988 by the WTBTS)

Quote: “Tenses. Another important and distinctive characteristic of Greek, contributing to its exactness, is its use of verb tenses. Verbs and their tenses involve two elements: kind of action (the more important) and time of action (of less importance). There are three principal points of viewing action in the Greek language, each with modifying characteristics: (1) action as continuous (“to be doing”), represented basically in the present tense, the primary force of which is progressive action or that which habitually or successively recurs; (2) action as perfected or completed (“to have done”), the principal tense here being the perfect; (3) action as punctiliar, or momentary (“to do”), represented in the aorist. There are, of course, other tenses, such as the imperfect, the past perfect, and the future.

To illustrate the difference in the Greek tenses: At 1 John 2:1, the apostle John says: “If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father” (KJ). The Greek verb for “sin” is in the aorist tense, hence the time of the action is punctiliar, or momentary. The aorist tense here points to one act of sinning, whereas the present infinitive would denote the condition of being a sinner or the continuous or progressive action in sinning. So John does not speak of someone carrying on a practice of sinning, but of one who does “commit a sin.” (Compare Mt 4:9, where the aorist indicates that the Devil did not ask Jesus to do constant or continuous worship to him, but “an act of worship.”)

But, if 1 John 3:6, 9 is read without taking into account the fact that the verb there is in the present tense, John seems to contradict his words above noted. The King James Version reads: “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not,” and, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin.” These renderings fail to carry over into English the continuous action denoted by the present tense of the Greek verbs used. Some modern translations, instead of saying here, “sinneth not” and “doth not commit sin,” take note of the continuous action and render the verbs accordingly: “does not practice sin,” “does not carry on sin” (NW); “practices sin,” “makes a practice of sinning” (CB); “does not habitually sin,” “does not practice sin” (Ph); “does not continue to sin” (TEV). Jesus commanded his followers at Matthew 6:33: “Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom,” indicating continuous effort, rather than merely “seek ye first the kingdom” (KJ).

In prohibitions, the present and aorist tenses are likewise distinctly different. In the present tense a prohibition means more than not to do a thing. It means to stop doing it. Jesus Christ, in route to Golgotha, did not merely tell the women following him, “Do not weep,” but, rather, since they were already weeping, he said: “Stop weeping for me.” (Lu 23:28) Likewise to those selling doves in the temple, Jesus said: “Stop making the house of my Father a house of merchandise!” (Joh 2:16) In the Sermon on the Mount he said: “Stop being anxious” about what you will eat, drink, or wear. (Mt 6:25) On the other hand, in the aorist a prohibition was a command against doing something at any given time or moment. Jesus is shown as telling his hearers: “So, never be anxious [that is, do not be anxious at any moment] about the next day.” (Mt 6:34) Here the aorist is used in order to indicate that the disciples should not be anxious at any time.

Another example of the need to take into consideration the Greek tense in translating is found at Hebrews 11:17. Some translations ignore the special significance in the tense of the verb. With reference to Abraham, the King James Version says: “He that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son.” The Greek verb here translated “offered up” is in the imperfect tense, which may carry the thought that the action was intended or attempted, but not realized or accomplished. Hence, in harmony with what actually happened, the Greek verb is more appropriately rendered “attempted to offer up.” Likewise, in Luke 1:59, speaking of the time of circumcision of the son of Zechariah and Elizabeth, the imperfect tense used indicates that instead of the rendering, “They called him Zacharias, after the name of his father” (KJ), the passage should read “They were going to call [the young child] by the name of its father, Zechariah” (NW). This is in harmony with what actually took place, namely, that he was given the name John, according to the angel Gabriel’s instructions.—Lu 1:13.” End Quote.


For your convenience:

Bible Translations

AB The Amplified Bible (1965), Zondervan Publishing House

An The Anchor Bible (1964 and following years), W. F. Albright and D. N. Freedman, general editors

AS American Standard Version (1901; as printed in 1944), American Revision Committee

AT The Complete Bible—An American Translation (1939; as printed in 1951), J. M. Powis Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed

BC Sagrada Biblia (1947), José María Bover and Francisco Cantera Burgos, Madrid, Spain

BE The Bible in Basic English (1949), Cambridge University Press

By The Bible in Living English (1972), Steven T. Byington

CB The New Testament—A Translation in the Language of the People (1937; as printed in 1950), Charles B. Williams

CC The New Testament (1941; as printed in 1947), Confraternity of Christian Doctrine Revision

CK The New Testament—A New Translation in Plain English (1963), Charles K. Williams

Da The ‘Holy Scriptures’ (1949 Edition), J. N. Darby

Dy Challoner-Douay Version (c. 1750; as printed in 1942)

ED The Emphatic Diaglott (1864; as printed in 1942), Benjamin Wilson

ER English Revised Version (1885; as printed in 1893), Cambridge University Press

Fn The Holy Bible in Modern English (1903; as printed in 1935), Ferrar Fenton

Int The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures (1985 Edition)

JB The Jerusalem Bible (1966), Alexander Jones, general editor

JP The Holy Scriptures According to the Masoretic Text (1917; as printed in 1952), The Jewish Publication Society of America

KJ King James Version (1611; as printed in 1942)

Kx The Holy Bible (1956), Ronald A. Knox

La The Holy Bible From Ancient Eastern Manuscripts (1957), George M. Lamsa

Le The Twenty-Four Books of the Holy Scriptures (1853; as printed in 1914), Isaac Leeser

LXX Greek Septuagint (originally produced in the third and second centuries B.C.E.), as edited by Alfred Rahlfs (1935)

LXX, Bagster The Septuagint With Apocrypha: Greek and English (translation by L. C. L. Brenton, 1851; as printed in 1986)

LXX, Thomson The Septuagint Bible (translation by Charles Thomson, 1808; revised by C. A. Muses, 1954)

Mo A New Translation of the Bible (1935; as printed in 1954), James Moffatt

MR The Modern Reader’s Bible (1907; as printed in 1924), Richard G. Moulton, editor

NAB The New American Bible (1970), Catholic Biblical Association of America

NAS New American Standard Bible (1971), Lockman Foundation

NC Sagrada Biblia (1944; as printed in 1972), Eloíno Nácar Fuster and Alberto Colunga

NE The New English Bible (1970)

NIV The Holy Bible—New International Version (1978)

NW New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures—With References (1984)

Ph The New Testament in Modern English (1958; as printed in 1976), J. B. Phillips

Ro The Emphasised Bible (1902), Joseph B. Rotherham

RS Revised Standard Version (1952; as printed in 1971)

Sd The Authentic New Testament (1958), Hugh J. Schonfield

Sh The Holy Bible (1892), Samuel Sharpe

Sp The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ (1937; as printed in 1948), Francis Aloysius Spencer

Sy Syriac Peshitta, originally produced in the fifth century C.E. (edited by S. Lee, London, 1826, and reprinted by United Bible Societies, 1979)

TC The Twentieth Century New Testament, Revised Edition (1904)

TEV Today’s English Version (1976)

Vg Latin Vulgate (originally produced c. 400 C.E. by Jerome; edited by R. Weber, Stuttgart, Germany, 1975)

VM La Santa Biblia, Versión Moderna (1966), Sociedades Bíblicas en América Latina

We The New Testament in Modern Speech (Fifth Edition, 1943; as printed in 1944), R. F. Weymouth; revised by J. A. Robertson

Yg The Holy Bible (Revised Edition of 1887), Robert Young


(I have only provided one subheading from that article. The entire article is a worthwhile read for those who desire to consider the subject further.)
There're lots of versions. Some you listed here I've never heard of. I quite a few in my collection.
 
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SBC

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But why did you say, "it is those who chose Him that He calls and thereafter?"

Because I believe everything is dependent upon IF we choose to believe in Him, otherwise it would force.

Scripture says:
He Knows our heart.
He Knows us in the womb.
He calls us.


God Bless,
SBC
 
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he-man

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Because I believe everything is dependent upon IF we choose to believe in Him, otherwise it would force.
Scripture says:
He Knows our heart.
He Knows us in the womb.
He calls us.
God Bless,
SBC
Yes, but the word "draws" means by spiritual force.
 
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SBC

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Yes, but the word "draws" means by spiritual force.


Yes God draws, and yes God is Spiritual, and yes His Spirit is a Mighty force.

Point being -
God KNOWS our choices, BEFORE we do.

When God "draws", it is simply God putting something in the path, for one WHO WILL CHOOSE Him, to start thinking about their ELECTION OF GOD, ie a commitment.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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Buzz_B

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Because I believe everything is dependent upon IF we choose to believe in Him, otherwise it would force.

Scripture says:
He Knows our heart.
He Knows us in the womb.
He calls us.


God Bless,
SBC
Have you ever dug deeply into the subject of the womb in the Bible?

That subject turns out to reveal far more than just what we commonly think about as the womb. The Hebrews applied it as a concept. Are you familiar with that concept?

Perhaps Ii will begin a thread to explain this concept. It is not new understanding but for those who have not previously known about it. It is age old, and like everything else I speak about, it has always been there right in front of our noses for us to at anytime come to see.

I get a laugh at those who bulk at something just because I might call it new. Surely they have to have some reason to justify their hearts refusal to listen. But that is so silly. Of course something is new to the one that has not previously seen it. That does not mean it was just invented. :)

As Solomon said, "There is nothing new under the sun." Not even the lame comments by those who simply do not want to hear it.
 
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Buzz_B

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There're lots of versions. Some you listed here I've never heard of. I quite a few in my collection.
The list comes from the cited publication. I have many of those myself but certainly not all of them. :) I included it just because the article references some of those different versions in its examples.

There are three basic aspects of the Greek grammar that if we would pay attention to sharpening our understanding of while revisiting the Bible texts we have formed our beliefs from, our beliefs would begin changing so fast and our spiritual growth develop so fast that it would amaze most of us.

2nd person plural verses 2nd person singular Greek pronouns

Greek verb tenses

and proper use of Greek prepositions.

When it comes to the Greek prepositions, they NEVER leave away from their basic thought regardless of what English word is used to translate them. That base thought must always mitigate any English translation regardless of which preposition is being translated. Each have a specific base thought in the Greek.

“en” always must be understood with some aspect of being “in.”

“dia”always must be understood with some aspect of being “through.”

“ek” must always be understood with some aspect of being “out of.”

And so forth and so on for all the Greek prepositions.

Greek was a rather precise language and when we translate so many of the Greek words by a common English word to replace them all, we lose that precision and allow the text to be interpreted many different ways when in the Greek we would not have been able to understand it so many different ways.

But I cannot do it for anyone else. Each of us must care so for truth that we would have it no other way than to do it for our self. I mean, what a waste of time and how dangerous it is for the survival of truth to ignore this matter. Why bother trying if we would refuse to do it right so that we can be better assured of a correct perception?
 
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SBC

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Have you ever dug deeply into the subject of the womb in the Bible?

That subject turns out to reveal far more than just what we commonly think about as the womb. The Hebrews applied it as a concept. Are you familiar with that concept?

Perhaps Ii will begin a thread to explain this concept. It is not new understanding but for those who have not previously known about it. It is age old, and like everything else I speak about, it has always been there right in front of our noses for us to at anytime come to see.

I get a laugh at those who bulk at something just because I might call it new. Surely they have to have some reason to justify their hearts refusal to listen. But that is so silly. Of course something is new to the one that has not previously seen it. That does not mean it was just invented. :)

As Solomon said, "There is nothing new under the sun." Not even the lame comments by those who simply do not want to hear it.

Perhaps you should post an OP that you want to talk about.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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he-man

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Yes God draws, and yes God is Spiritual, and yes His Spirit is a Mighty force.
Point being - God KNOWS our choices, BEFORE we do. When God "draws", it is simply God putting something in the path, for one WHO WILL CHOOSE Him, to start thinking about their ELECTION OF GOD, ie a commitment. God Bless, SBC
The result of that commitment is the σωζω which is save and meaning deliverer, to Preserve, to rescue frm danger; Matthew 8:25; however when spelled σωζουσα it means in the future, whereas σωζεοθαι means the present, Matthew 19:25. But to be saved it is εσωθη Matthew 24:22, or in Hebrews 10:39, it is a saving. The word for preserving however is περιποιεω. Hoping against hope, to be rescued from the dangers of this world σωζουσα.
 
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KingdomLeast

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The origin of the JW church is a guy called Russell. They used to be called the Russellites. You might get some background information about them on Wikipedia. Here is a link: Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs - Wikipedia

Actually …
  1. The "Russellites" was not their name, they were called "Bible Students". Russellites is what their detractors called them.
  2. Russell founded the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and International Bible Students Association. They were simply publishing houses. After he died in 1916, there was a power struggle, Joseph Rutherford took over, and reorganized the entire structure, making it more like the Catholic Church, with Rutherford as it's Pope.
  3. There was a major split as a result with 75% of the original Bible Students leaving to function independently.
  4. To differentiate between the various groups calling themselves "Bible Students", Rutherford renamed his group "Jehovah's witnesses" in 1931.
 
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SkyWriting

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As a point of humility, it is important to note to self that what ever conclusions you come to are not equal to scripture. Therefore, your interpretation may be invalidated, but scripture remains not so.
Actually, your understanding of what you read are...what is.
Nothing exists outside of your understanding of it.
 
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