Your evidence for God, in another theist's hands...

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What if a believer in a different God told you they had the same reasons for believing in their God as you do for believing in yours? Would you then believe in their God?

And if a third party asked you which of the two of you were correct, would you be able to show them that you were?
 

Hammster

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Christianity is not an evidence-based faith.


For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
— 1 Corinthians 1:18

Elsewhere it says


For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
— Romans 1:18-19

It’s not something that a man apart from Christ can judge.


But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
— 1 Corinthians 2:14
 
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Tolworth John

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What if a believer in a different God told you they had the same reasons for believing in their God as you do for believing in yours? Would you then believe in their God?

And if a third party asked you which of the two of you were correct, would you be able to show them that you were?

What evidence would you accept?

That there is a God is self evident. Something caused everything to begin, so we are only debating what or who it is.

For me it is the resurrection that was the decided.
How do you account for an empty tomb and cowardly followers suddenly suicidally brave?
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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What if a believer in a different God told you they had the same reasons for believing in their God as you do for believing in yours? Would you then believe in their God?

And if a third party asked you which of the two of you were correct, would you be able to show them that you were?
If they have exactly the same reasons, then there is little reason to think that we aren't actually talking about the same concept. In which case we are both correct and there is no reason for a third-party to think that we both have the same concept of God, nor would it be necessary to for anyone to show that they are more correct than the other.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Thinking of questions that Christians can't answer...
- Does God command something because it is good, or is it good because God commands it?
- God IS good, therefore Euthyphro doesn't present all of the options
- Can you prove that Santa does not exist?
- No, but we can provide an awful lot of evidence that points towards the fact that he does not exist. If you want to believe otherwise in spite of the evidence, more fool you.
- Why don't prayers ever have any effect?
- Who says they don't? And how did you prove it.
- Does the Bible endorse slavery?
- Yes and no. Look up the Slave Bible as a reason why.
 
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GospelS

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It’s not just about the reasons. It’s more a relationship. I’ve the Spirit of Christ with me. He dwells with us and we know He is real because of the power and the intimate fellowship we experience with the God of the Bible.
 
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Rachel20

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What if a believer in a different God told you they had the same reasons for believing in their God as you do for believing in yours? Would you then believe in their God?

No.

And if a third party asked you which of the two of you were correct, would you be able to show them that you were?

Yes, after death where the matter is settled for all, once and for all.
 
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Christianity is not an evidence-based faith.
And yet this is a forum which specifically invites Christians to provide evidence for their claims.

What evidence would you accept?
My answer is the same answer I would give to any proposition. Convincing evidence.
There may be many different forms that evidence could take, many of which I am no doubt not even aware of. I would accept accurate and well-tested prophecies, a personal encounter with the divine, a miracle story that comes with sound evidence that it did actually happen, and so on.

That there is a God is self evident. Something caused everything to begin, so we are only debating what or who it is.
No, I'm afraid it's not self-evident. I might agree with you that something caused the universe to begin, but that does not imply that this cause was a "God" or even a conscious, intelligent and still-existing being.

For me it is the resurrection that was the decided.
How do you account for an empty tomb and cowardly followers suddenly suicidally brave?
Fairly easily. Religious people do strange things all the time.

If they have exactly the same reasons, then there is little reason to think that we aren't actually talking about the same concept. In which case we are both correct and there is no reason for a third-party to think that we both have the same concept of God, nor would it be necessary to for anyone to show that they are more correct than the other.
Except that the other religion says that you are wrong.

It’s not just about the reasons. It’s more a relationship. I’ve the Spirit of Christ with me. He dwells with us and we know He is real because of the power and the intimate fellowship we experience with the God of the Bible.
Thank you. And would you say your experience of a relationship with God would be a convincing argument that would persuade me to believe in God?

Yes, after death where the matter is settled for all, once and for all.
Would it be fair to say, then, that you are saying that God cannot be proven to exist, and that Christians do not have good evidence for believing in God that would persuade another person?
 
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Thinking of questions that Christians can't answer...
Really? You too? Cool!

- Does God command something because it is good, or is it good because God commands it?
- God IS good, therefore Euthyphro doesn't present all of the options
What other options are there?

- Can you prove that Santa does not exist?
- No, but we can provide an awful lot of evidence that points towards the fact that he does not exist. If you want to believe otherwise in spite of the evidence, more fool you.
Ah. So you can't prove that Santa doesn't exist.

- Why don't prayers ever have any effect?
- Who says they don't? And how did you prove it.
Didn't you just tell me that you can't prove Santa doesn't exist but that you feel quite comfortable believing he doesn't? Since you said that, I feel quite comfortable saying that I can't prove that no prayer, anywhere, has ever been answered; but since I have heard many claims of prayers being answered, and none of them have ever stood up to scrutiny, I ask the question: why is it prayers never seem to have any effect?

- Does the Bible endorse slavery?
- Yes and no. Look up the Slave Bible as a reason why.
I have. In what way does this show that the Bible condemns slavery? What parts of it are there that invalidate the rules on how to buy, keep and punish slaves, and the direct commandments within it to slaves to be obedient to their masters?
 
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Hammster

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And yet this is a forum which specifically invites Christians to provide evidence for their claims.
No it’s not. It’s an apologetics forum. The reason that evidence doesn’t work is because of the reasons I gave.
 
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Rachel20

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Would it be fair to say, then, that you are saying that God cannot be proven to exist

Yes, which is right in line with 1 Corinthians 1:21-24

... and that Christians do not have good evidence for believing in God that would persuade another person?

Faith isn't without reason, but faith is still required. Again, right in line with the above verses, which is by God's own design.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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What if a believer in a different God told you they had the same reasons for believing in their God as you do for believing in yours? Would you then believe in their God?

And if a third party asked you which of the two of you were correct, would you be able to show them that you were?
That's a great question. If only someone , who is not a Christian, could present their god, I would be able to show them how one god compares to the other God. So far, I have not come across a potential rival. Let me know if there is one out there! Be blessed.
 
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GospelS

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And would you say your experience of a relationship with God would be a convincing argument that would persuade me to believe in God?

I'm confident that any unbeliever who gets to see the power of Christ working in me will be persuaded to believe in God.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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What other options are there?
It shouldn't take you long to find a good response to this. I had one long before I'd even heard any apologist say the same thing.

God does good because God IS good. Solves the dilemma by suggesting that is actually a trilemma and that the missed response solves all issues.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Ah. So you can't prove that Santa doesn't exist.
No we can't. You are free to believe in him if you wish but don't be surprised if people start to suggest you go and see a psychiatrist.

It does make you wonder why you picked this as something that Christians can't answer. Christians not being able to prove or disprove Santa has no relevance to the core tenets of Christianity and Santa doesn't even make an appearance in the Bible!
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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Didn't you just tell me that you can't prove Santa doesn't exist but that you feel quite comfortable believing he doesn't? Since you said that, I feel quite comfortable saying that I can't prove that no prayer, anywhere, has ever been answered; but since I have heard many claims of prayers being answered, and none of them have ever stood up to scrutiny, I ask the question: why is it prayers never seem to have any effect?

Then it is, like a lack of proof of Santa, an irrelevance. You might just as well proclaim that there is a planet out there made of cheese. It doesn't matter how daft a proposition it is, since it can't be proven false you are at liberty to think otherwise.

It appears therefore that your question is not aimed at Christians but at yourself since you are the one who is not discerning any effect of prayers.

It is like those hidden image optical illusions. Just because I can't see them does not mean that nobody else can either.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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I have. In what way does this show that the Bible condemns slavery? What parts of it are there that invalidate the rules on how to buy, keep and punish slaves, and the direct commandments within it to slaves to be obedient to their masters?
Your question was that of whether the Bible endorses slavery, not whether it condemns it, which is why I pointed to the slave Bible. Since the message of both testaments includes the setting free of slaves, it is clear that argue that it wholeheartedly endorses slavery is wrong, but that in itself is a simplistic representation of what the Bible teaches just as your quote mining is cherry picking the negative endorsements of slavery.

And I did say 'yes and no' as my response to the question (which means it is a question that Christians can answer.
 
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Silly Uncle Wayne

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To put into perspective:

Thinking of questions that Atheists can't answer...
- Does God command something because it is good, or is it good because God commands it?
- Can you prove that Santa does not exist?
- Why don't prayers ever have any effect?
- Does the Bible endorse slavery?
 
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DamianWarS

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What if a believer in a different God told you they had the same reasons for believing in their God as you do for believing in yours? Would you then believe in their God?

And if a third party asked you which of the two of you were correct, would you be able to show them that you were?
sharing a common value system of belief even if it leads to different concepts of God does not void said concepts but rather the opposite. the similarities can lead to increased evidence that there is a God and to the third party it is the similarities that will carry the most weight. I would say two individuals who do not share the same geography and culture yet express the same desire and need for God, despite coming to different conclusions may suggest a universal need that supersedes "where you came from" which can be quite remarkable in itself. Most people in the world believe in God and among those monotheistic groups form the vast majority. Just because there are varied ideas of God doesn't negate God but shows a wide-reaching need and desire for God.
 
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jayem

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[QUOTE="DamianWarS, post: 75938539, member: 224982”] Most people in the world believe in God and among those monotheistic groups form the vast majority. Just because there are varied ideas of God doesn't negate God but shows a wide-reaching need and desire for God.[/QUOTE]

That only demonstrates that belief in a god or gods exists. It’s not evidence that such entities exist in any way other than in the imagination. Or as wishful thinking.
 
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