Your church and your views on evolution

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Greg1234

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Oh really? Then what do you think a SPERM is if not a single celled life form???

A horse is not determined by the sperm but by the mind operating such.


Do you mean to say that Horses and all animals actually appear out of thin air:confused: :doh:

If you think that a horse is reducible to its physical layer then yes, in the beginning the birth of birth would be "out of thin air."
 
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jpcedotal

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Science is not faith based. You are totally misinformed and perhaps you should ask before you judge. Also TOE is not a world view it is a scientific theory that has made predictions and has explained how life evolves. If you are truly looking for truth then may I suggest you start by not spreading lies.

Also you really should rethink your "bogey man" tactics as we are all adults and do not need to be scared into adopting your personal beliefs.

"Judge not lest you be judged in return" :wave:

The core issue is if evolution is a true science. Evolutionist feel as if this has already be determined, Creationist do not.

That is the point that stops any real discussion from taking place.

So what happens, personal insults from both sides.

Every thread ends up with this:

Evolutionist are blind and arrogantly wrong.
Creationist are blind and ignorantly wrong.

The fact that the question of "is evolution a real science" has not be completely put to rest..no matter how many times folks on CF tell you it is...it just isn't...

If it was, these threads would cease to exist. The lack of a firm answer has nothing to do with the average education of Creationists and other anti-evolutionists, it has everything to do with swallowing too much man made leaps of faith in theory and not enough concrete facts.
 
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jpcedotal

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At best, singular evolution or singular adaption (a much clearer and accurate word), is the exception to natural law, not the rule.

Can I see proof a single cell organism splitting into two single cell organisms...sure.
Can I see proof of a bird over generations changing coloration and even pecker length in order to survive...yeah, I can go with that.
Can I see a rat growing wings and turning into a bat...errr no.
Can I see any animal evolving a consciousness...absolutely not.

To me personally, the fruit fly experiment, is all the worldly proof I need that the evolution theory is not the natural way of life and is in fact the exact opposite of what is natural law.

Life deteriorates and reverts back to a more natural simpler mixed state as soon as a physical/social pressure lets up, not the other way around...and if this adaption is carried too far (like outside one's kind) the creature becomes sterile and/or becomes extinct.

Pure breeds are the result of taking out unwanted physical characteristics and can only be passed down through the generations by the pressure of reproducing with only another pure bred (I would also like to add that there is a cost for trying to purify a creature to make a handful of characteristics stand out... these pure bred are usually dumber and have more physical issues including immune system breakdowns than the mixed creature of the same kind). As soon as this pressure is lifted, the animal will blend back into the more simpler form of a mixed creature of a certain kind.

Same way with humans. With all the racial taboos coming down one by one, the human race will become one mixed simpler creature..no white or black or yellow or red and the location, climate, and other natural pressures will not physically change this human one bit...well, maybe those exposed to sun will be more tan...but this will revert back as well.

In fact, it is of my opinion that Adam was this racially mixed human. And there was no difference in race until after the tower of Babel when God spread the human race out over the world that languages and colors were changed...and this was instant, not gradual...and since that moment we have been slowly reverting back (coming back together) to the mixed race of ancient times 4000 to 8000 years ago give or take a century or two.
 
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Elendur

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It takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does in God.
{snip}
Evolution has been tested several times and has been revised when it failed to explain those flaws. ToE is based upon heaps of evidence and that makes it hard to follow the (or perhaps 'a') definition of faith:
"Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence"
 
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mzungu

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The core issue is if evolution is a true science. Evolutionist feel as if this has already be determined, Creationist do not.

That is the point that stops any real discussion from taking place.

So what happens, personal insults from both sides.

Every thread ends up with this:

Evolutionist are blind and arrogantly wrong.
Creationist are blind and ignorantly wrong.

The fact that the question of "is evolution a real science" has not be completely put to rest..no matter how many times folks on CF tell you it is...it just isn't...

If it was, these threads would cease to exist. The lack of a firm answer has nothing to do with the average education of Creationists and other anti-evolutionists, it has everything to do with swallowing too much man made leaps of faith in theory and not enough concrete facts.
First of all I did not attack creationism. Secondly I attacked your lies concerning ToE. You made statements regarding ToE that are erroneous.

ToE does not delve into the spiritual world simply because science does not delve into the spiritual world. Science does not concern itself with the unfalsifiable.

You deny that ToE is a scientific theory; How so? What are your scientific criteria that you use to determine this?

If you wish to dismiss a scientific theory then you can only do so by scientific means. You cannot just wave your hand and claim a scientific theory is invalid. That is not how science works.

ToE has and does not delve into religion. In fact ToE is to put it very simply a "PROCESS". Would you be so kind as to show to me where ToE attacks religion?
 
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Michael

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Is a church's stance on evolution a deal breaker?

It's a "deal breaker" for me in terms of buying into that particular dogma. ;)

If the church that I attend cannot accept evolutionary theory, that's their problem. Fortunately I don't see anything related to that particular theory on their website. :)

Home
 
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Davian

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Real observable science yes. We are talking about children and teens. What we need to instill in these kids science-wise is theories they can observe easily, science that the results are clear.

Save evolution for an elective in college, like art appreciation or dance.

So then, on the subject of what is "supernatural", we should only have these kids learn about what we can observe easily, demonstrable results that are clear.

Save teaching them about specific deities for an elective in college, like art appreciation, or the scientific theory of evolution.

Would you agree with this?
 
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selfinflikted

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The core issue is if evolution is a true science. Evolutionist feel as if this has already be determined, Creationist do not.

No. The real issue is, Creationists are not willing to let go of their strongly held personal beliefs. There is no question as to whether evolution is a "real" science - it is. Period. New Paragraph. The only question that is at all relevant is: Are people willing to put themselves out of their comfort zone and accept reality, or will they continue to plug their ears and cover their eyes in favor of warm fuzzies?
 
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Elendur

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No. The real issue is, Creationists are not willing to let go of their strongly held personal beliefs. There is no question as to whether evolution is a "real" science - it is. Period. New Paragraph. The only question that is at all relevant is: Are people willing to put themselves out of their comfort zone and accept reality, or will they continue to plug their ears and cover their eyes in favor of warm fuzzies?
You've got to admit the warm fuzzies are tempting. The comfort is second to none.
 
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selfinflikted

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You've got to admit the warm fuzzies are tempting. The comfort is second to none.

Yes, but once your eyes have been opened, there's no going back. Have to find warm fuzzies in other things, which as it turns out, can be done and said fuzzies can be much more satisfying when you don't have the little nagging in the back of your mind telling you "This is just crazy, really. It can't be true. Not really." :thumbsup:
 
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Elendur

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Yes, but once your eyes have been opened, there's no going back. Have to find warm fuzzies in other things, which as it turns out, can be done and said fuzzies can be much more satisfying when you don't have the little nagging in the back of your mind telling you "This is just crazy, really. It can't be true. Not really." :thumbsup:
True, a bit sad, but true. Of course, my voice was (and is in some cases) mostly saying "Does it really matter?". I've come to hope for some things and expect other.
 
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jpcedotal

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So then, on the subject of what is "supernatural", we should only have these kids learn about what we can observe easily, demonstrable results that are clear.

Save teaching them about specific deities for an elective in college, like art appreciation, or the scientific theory of evolution.

Would you agree with this?

The only issue I could see with completly eliminating deities from public schools would be in the history class where some many histories (state, country and world) are intertwined with religion. It would be hard to explain some of the purposes of past wars if the relgions of the areas could not be discussed.
 
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jpcedotal

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Yes, but once your eyes have been opened, there's no going back. Have to find warm fuzzies in other things, which as it turns out, can be done and said fuzzies can be much more satisfying when you don't have the little nagging in the back of your mind telling you "This is just crazy, really. It can't be true. Not really." :thumbsup:

or your heart has been hardened...which is sad
 
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Elendur

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The only issue I could see with completly eliminating deities from public schools would be in the history class where some many histories (state, country and world) are intertwined with religion. It would be hard to explain some of the purposes of past wars if the relgions of the areas could not be discussed.
Why wouldn't one include religion in school? It's an interesting subject and serves a purpose in ones education.
Also you make it sound like it's taboo to even speak of, what purpose would that serve?
 
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jpcedotal

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Why wouldn't one include religion in school? It's an interesting subject and serves a purpose in ones education.
Also you make it sound like it's taboo to even speak of, what purpose would that serve?

I was answering a question by someone else.
 
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Davian

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The only issue I could see with completly eliminating deities from public schools would be in the history class where some many histories (state, country and world) are intertwined with religion. It would be hard to explain some of the purposes of past wars if the relgions of the areas could not be discussed.

That's why I said specific deities; religions and wars are a part of history.

The theory of evolution and wars, not so much.

The issue I see with completely eliminating the theory of evolution from science classes is that it is intertwined with all of the sciences. You would not be left with much to teach in science class. Would you have our children put at such a disadvantage from the rest of the world?
 
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jpcedotal

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That's why I said specific deities; religions and wars are a part of history.

The theory of evolution and wars, not so much.

The issue I see with completely eliminating the theory of evolution from science classes is that it is intertwined with all of the sciences. You would not be left with much to teach in science class. Would you have our children put at such a disadvantage from the rest of the world?

The school my kids go to now do not teach evolution...and it is a public school
 
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