Your beliefs on openness and purpose of communion

[cloudyday2]

Specifically, do you think atheists should participate in communion if they happen to be attending a church? Remember that nobody's brain is 100% belief or 100% disbelief. If a person like myself is baptized but now is 99% disbelief, I wonder what is appropriate? Personally, I think that an atheist should participate, because denying people access to Jesus contradicts the behavior of Jesus in the gospel. Jesus repeatedly went to the people that society was rejecting.

 

[DavidFirth]

Specifically, do you think atheists should participate in communion if they happen to be attending a church?

NO. Communion is for Christians only.

 

[DavidFirth]

From 1 Corinthians 11

23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.29For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

 

[DavidFirth]

Those who are being condemned with the world have no part in the Lord's body and blood.

 

[cloudyday2]

NO. Communion is for Christians only.

I edited the OP after you replied, so could you read the edited version? I want to make sure you understand my question.

 

[DavidFirth]

I edited the OP after you replied, so could you read the edited version? I want to make sure you understand my question.

I mean this kindly. If you read 1 Corinthians 11, Paul says it is what is in the worshiper's heart that is important. A baptized believer that is having serious doubts should examine himself/herself as Paul commanded before taking communion. Each one should examine himself/herself to see if they are in the right "frame of mind" to be participating in the body and blood of the Lord before they partake.

Please keep in mind that Paul was addressing believers in the books of Corinthians, not unbelievers.

An unrepentant person should NEVER participate in the body and blood of Christ.

 

[FireDragon76]

If you don't believe in God, how can you believe the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ?

I do not believe in excluding anyone from the table who sincerely desires to be there but at the same time, people that reject our faith should abstain.

If you have only "1% belief"... that is sufficient. The faith of a mustard seem is all that it takes to move mountains.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Specifically, do you think atheists should participate in communion if they happen to be attending a church? Remember that nobody's brain is 100% belief or 100% disbelief. If a person like myself is baptized but now is 99% disbelief, I wonder what is appropriate? Personally, I think that an atheist should participate, because denying people access to Jesus contradicts the behavior of Jesus in the gospel. Jesus repeatedly went to the people that society was rejecting.

I have a Catholic stance. Anyone is invited to be in a christian church and participate in sermons and Masses. I've been to a baptist church that encouraged people to give their life to christ before receiving communion. Catholics believe one should repent to god, say "jesus be my lord and savior," and commune in christ life, death, and resurrection through baptism before one accepts communion with the christian community.

So, an atheist would be welcomed into christian churches but will be encouraged to become christian. Agnostics, I noticed, are seen more "in between; they are coming to god one day" so as long as the motives and attitude is fine and direct in your intent, and the intent of the church one visits, I don't see it as a problem.

 

[DavidFirth]

I have a Catholic stance. Anyone is invited to be in a christian church and participate in sermons and Masses. I've been to a baptist church that encouraged people to give their life to christ before receiving communion. Catholics believe one should repent to god, say "jesus be my lord and savior," and commune in christ life, death, and resurrection through baptism before one accepts communion with the christian community.

So, an atheist would be welcomed into christian churches but will be encouraged to become christian. Agnostics, I noticed, are seen more "in between; they are coming to god one day" so as long as the motives and attitude is fine and direct in your intent, and the intent of the church one visits, I don't see it as a problem.

Actually, Catholics believe one should not partake in communion in Mass unless they are a believing Catholic. Before I converted to Catholicism I was a baptized Protestant but I was asked not to partake of communion until my conversion to Catholicism was complete.

I do not agree with this reasoning, I was just expressing what the Roman Catholic Church currently teaches.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Specifically, do you think atheists should participate in communion if they happen to be attending a church? Remember that nobody's brain is 100% belief or 100% disbelief. If a person like myself is baptized but now is 99% disbelief, I wonder what is appropriate? Personally, I think that an atheist should participate, because denying people access to Jesus contradicts the behavior of Jesus in the gospel. Jesus repeatedly went to the people that society was rejecting.

It depends on who you are asking.

There are denominations that take the position you mention, for the reasons you mention.


However ... we take great care in Orthodoxy with receiving the Eucharist, because we know that in the early Church, some people (who were Christians and part of the Church) got sick or even died because they were careless in how they received it. How can we expect someone who doesn't understand or believe in what he is doing not to be in possible danger? When we ourselves receive communion, we fast first, we pray in preparation, we take care to see that there are no sins between us and the Lord, or between us and others. These things might not be possible, or be understood, by unbelievers.

So I would say that no, you should not receive communion in our Church. But not because we wish to exclude you or keep God from you. Rather to protect you from presumption.


It brings to mind an aspect of prayer. Sometimes we as Christians feel that God is distant when we pray, and we may wish for the comfort of His Presence. But the truth is that sometimes we are not in a state to receive Him, and it is a mercy that He does not come to us. But this is more a concern for those who know Him, have grown close, and have a higher degree of accountability. Those who call on Him and meet Him, not knowing Him much or at all yet, can be in a much worse spiritual state, and not suffer for it, because He is merciful and knows our weakness, and protects babes in the faith.

But with what we know of Holy Communion, it is safer to protect people from it. We believe that there are physical and spiritual effects of receiving God Himself into ourselves, and we hope it to be for strengthening, healing, and eternal life - not for condemnation.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Actually, Catholics believe one should not partake in communion in Mass unless they are a believing Catholic. Before I converted to Catholicism I was a baptized Protestant but I was asked not to partake of communion until my conversion to Catholicism was complete.

I do not agree with this reasoning, I was just expressing what the Roman Catholic Church currently teaches.

I can translate it to protestant. I came from a protestant background so I don't see Catholicism so negative and excluded as other people do.

There is no problem with communion if

1. One accepts jesus as their lord and savior Romans 10:9 Confirmation

2. One repents to god Acts 3:19 (Confession)

3. One is baptized Luke 3:3 (Baptism)

4. Commune with and in the Body of Christ 1 John 1:3 (Communion)

I don't segregate who is christian and who is not. That's one small reason I left the Church.

That negativity aside, a atheist and agnostic can go to a christian church but if they do not become christian through repentance, communion, be born again, and declaration of faith to oneself and to god, then no, communion isnt a good idea. I just hope the atheist and agnostic are mindful of christian beliefs first and even more so go to a church with whom will treat them just as everyone else while respecting their place in a religious setting.

 

[Silmarien]

Specifically, do you think atheists should participate in communion if they happen to be attending a church? Remember that nobody's brain is 100% belief or 100% disbelief. If a person like myself is baptized but now is 99% disbelief, I wonder what is appropriate? Personally, I think that an atheist should participate, because denying people access to Jesus contradicts the behavior of Jesus in the gospel. Jesus repeatedly went to the people that society was rejecting.

I don't think atheists should participate, no. I think positive agnostics, i.e., those who are fully open to the possibility that it's true, should be able to do so, though.

I went back to church about a year ago, and it was several months before I finally felt compelled to take communion. Before that, it seemed pretty blasphemous.

 

[FireDragon76]

We Lutherans tend to emphasize being passive recipients of faith. Faith is not something where we look inside us to see whether or not we have real faith. Real faith looks outward to what God does for us through the preaching of the Gospel and the sacraments. All of us come to church with doubts at times, but the important distinction is what we do about it.

If you come to our church, you would not be turned away from communion because you are baptized. At our particular church, we do not commune small children, but otherwise our policies are fairly open. We just have a disclaimer in the bulletin that those who are not baptized can be blessed rather than receive communion. Different Lutheran churches have different practices in this matter and its really up to the elders and the pastor.

Like Silmareian said, it's mostly about being open to belief rather than being free from all doubt.

 

[Albion]

Specifically, do you think atheists should participate in communion if they happen to be attending a church?

Absolutely not. However, if it's some kind of super-liberal church and the pastor issues an invitation that is completely open-ended, no one excluded, I couldn't blame you. He would either be thinking that he was addressing believers visiting from another denomination or else unaffiliated Christians or even that, in the case of a nonbeliever, it would just be fellowship in their case and nothing more.

That last possibility, however, would reflect some very bad theology. It is generally believed among Christian churches that the sacrament is a symbol of unity, that it has since the very early days of Christianity been reserved for full-fledged Christians, and that it means more than mere fellowship.

If a person like myself is baptized but now is 99% disbelief, I wonder what is appropriate? .

Don't commune.

 

[HereIStand]

That's something I've thought about, since I've agonized myself over taking in an unworthy manner.

My sense is that as long as someone isn't mocking communion or being disruptive, then he should be free to receive communion. An unbeliever may or may not receive any benefit from it, but such a person will be unharmed by receiving it, as long as he is not trying to be blasphemous through his participation.

Taking in an unworthy manner, refers to the gluttony and drunkenness in the New Testament times. Today, it could be applied to mocking the communion service somehow.

 

[Albion]

That would be definitely counter to the view of the overwhelming majority of Christians and Christian churches through the centuries. I'm not speaking of a person such as yourself abstaining for the reasons you outlined, but of a self-described atheist communing. That is really a different matter.

It would scandalize the average Christian churchgoer, if he knew. But OTOH, whatever conventional wisdom there is on any matter of doctrine or practice, there is some congregation somewhere which thinks rules and traditional standards are not important anymore. That's what makes a firm answer to a question like this one here a toughie.

 

[FireDragon76]

The only real question I see is: do you want to receive the body and blood of Christ, broken and shed for the forgiveness of all your sins? If yes, you belong at the altar with everybody else. The rest of the stuff is secondary.

Sarah Miles was an atheist in San Francisco and she became a Christian by receiving communion in St. Gregory of Nyssa, a prominent Episcopalian church in San Francisco. She wrote a book called Take This Bread talking about her spiritual journey. It's worth reading.

 

[~Anastasia~]

That would be definitely counter to the view of the overwhelming majority of Christians and Christian churches through the centuries. I'm not speaking of a person such as yourself abstaining for the reasons you outlined, but of a self-described atheist communing. That is really a different matter.

It would scandalize the average Christian churchgoer, if he knew. But OTOH, whatever conventional wisdom there is on any matter of doctrine or practice, there is some congregation somewhere which thinks rules and traditional standards are not important anymore. That's what makes a firm answer to a question like this one here a toughie.

I visited a denominational parish that emphasized that their theology was that Christ should be freely available to all and believed no one should be excluded from His table - not by them anyway. So they freely invited anyone to receive, completely regardless of what they believed. Their hope was that by receiving Christ, perhaps a non-believer could even be converted. And they believed in the Real Presence. I was not yet Orthodox, and my understanding of Communion at that time involved unity of faith, mostly. And yes, I was still scandalized.

I don't like to point fingers, but I can't help but think they are ignoring the fact that the institution at the Mystical Supper (Last Supper) involved Christ and His disciples, not the general populace.

 

[Albion]

Sarah Miles was an atheist in San Francisco and she became a Christian by receiving communion in St. Gregory of Nyssa, a prominent Episcopalian church in San Francisco. She wrote a book called "Take This Bread" talking about her spiritual journey

A happy outcome doesn't make the action right.

We can think of plenty of situations in which getting close to something you are prohibited from participating in can make you feel appreciative of it. I would imagine that putting on a clerical collar and representing yourself as a priest might bring you a new appreciation of the life of an ordained clergyman. That wouldn't make the playacting be honorable.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Sarah Miles was an atheist in San Francisco and she became a Christian by receiving communion in St. Gregory of Nyssa, a prominent Episcopalian church in San Francisco. She wrote a book called Take This Bread talking about her spiritual journey. It's worth reading.

Thankfully God is merciful. And in this case, Glory to God! Far be it from me to limit Him.

But on the other hand, it would be unwise for myself to presume either. I prefer to stay within safe bounds.

But as I commented earlier about prayer, often babes receive the greater protection.

... But this is more a concern for those who know Him, have grown close, and have a higher degree of accountability. Those who call on Him and meet Him, not knowing Him much or at all yet, can be in a much worse spiritual state, and not suffer for it, because He is merciful and knows our weakness, and protects babes in the faith.

I don't think we should let that change our theaching as handed down from Christ and the Apostles though.