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Featured You must PROVE you LOVE the LORD to be saved!

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by BCsenior, Mar 5, 2019.

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  1. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Neither this passage, nor any of the verses that follow in the OP say what you claim.

    btw, could you answer the simple question:

    To WHOM must a believer prove their love for the Lord? Be specific.

    But I won't hold my breath, for BCSenior doesn't answer questions that he can't prove from clear Scriptue.

    So, for those who have been reading this thread, I'll explain the problem.

    If his answer to my question is "God", then he basically admits that God isn't omniscient.

    But, if his answer to my question is "others", then he MUST HAVE a verse that plainly says to whom we must prove our love for the Lord.

    But, as usual, he won't answer the question. Neither answer would be biblical, which is obvious to all.
     
  2. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    I wanted to comment on this specifically. There is a co-operative effort between God and man when it comes to our spiritual growth, but there is no co-operative effort when it comes to our salvation. There is a big difference. We do have a responsibility to cooperate with God and be willing to be conformed into the image of Christ. We can grieve the Holy Spirit, stay a babe in Christ (never getting beyond milk to the meat), yield to our sinful desires over and over again, and many other issues that are addressed throughout Scripture. But salvation itself, the new birth in Jesus Christ, that is not a cooperative effort. Salvation is solely based on the mercy, grace, and love of God alone, otherwise we would become prideful and think that we deserve salvation based on the works that we do.
     
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  3. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    But why bring Jesus into your little theological theory? Since you claim that there are ways to lose salvation. So, ultimately in your world of theory, ultimate salvation depends, not upon the finished and perfect work of Jesus Christ on the cross, but by one's own behavior/lifestyle/obedience/faithfulness.

    Not.

    There it is, in black and white! Man helps God in his salvation.

    What isn't there, in BCSenior's theory, is grace.

    Rom 11:6 - And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

    And none of the many verses he has quoted over the years says anything about losing salvation. He only presumes that they do.
     
  4. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So, no one is responsible for their Salvation, cause God chooses and does (that) in that area, and chooses based upon Him and not us, right...? but we are partially responsible for our spiritual growth, and that, is a cooperative effort between or with you and God working together...? And, I would agree, and like very much what you said, and your post, but...?

    What if we fail to live up to the responsibility of our spiritual growth, over and over, again and again, repeatedly...? Is that possible...? And if not, or so, does God hold you accountable to and for that...? God's expectations of us not being met because of our end...?

    Then, would, or could that cost anyone their Salvation, or prevent them from being saved (at some point maybe) or not...?

    I wonder also, How does God choose, if it based upon Him and not us...?

    And, can we ever be sure or secure in our Salvation because of that either...?

    Cause He chooses not to choose "some", and if only He knows that basis for His choosing, how can any one of us ever be very sure, or very secure of, or in our Salvation...?


    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  5. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    So, what about all of the dire warnings about
    losing salvation or eternal life?
    You may wish to begin with my signature!

    Paul says in Romans 6 that these believers are technically and theoretically slaves of righteousness
    and slaves of God.
    But, they must CHOOSE ... whether or not
    they will continue to be slaves of sin.
    And, if they do so choose, it leads to eternal death.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    What is righteous living and who lives righteously...? (your signature)...

    And "so that you will become Holy"...? What, or who is Holy...? And what does that "mean" and who or what does it look like...? Or who would be "Holy" or a Holy one...?

    God Bless!
     
  7. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Yes, just yesterday, my ex-pastor (44 years) friend and I
    began a list of how to practice righteousness in order
    to be righteous in God's eyes.
    So far, we have:
    be loving, merciful, generous, forgiving,
    doing good works, repenting of current sins.


    BTW, have you looked closely at 2 Cor 7:8-10?
    I have a commentary that gives a full page on it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  8. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Cool, let me, or us, know what you guys come up with...

    God Bless!
     
  9. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Already just posted the meat of it.
     
  10. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    OK, well, would you assume this "Holy and Righteous person" would also be very knowledgeable, understanding, and wise...?

    But, what I want to know is...? "Where is the wise man", ect...?

    I have an old thread that is a list of virtues that might help you guys in your study maybe, possibly, I'll link it here (below)...

    Here is where "morality" can come from...?

    And if it doesn't, it doesn't, but...?

    God Bless!
     
  11. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Will you ever come to an end of what you want to know?
     
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Probably not...

    Sorry about all the damage I may do, or may have done, in my "wake" though, really, truly, sorry...

    God Bless!
     
  13. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    I believe that we do choose to either accept the gift of salvation or reject it. But I don't see the act of accepting the gift as something to boast about, but rather something to be grateful for. I am grateful for the gift of salvation that God offered to me, but I didn't do anything to earn the gift. The gift was given in to me out of the love of God.

    I think if someone continues to never grow spiritually, then it is highly likely that they were never really saved. Those who are saved, but grow very slowly, will be disappointed when they get to heaven as see all that could have been, all that they could have done on earth, but failed to do. They will have been saved from eternal death and separation from God, even though all their works are burned up. I don't think God desires that we experience that kind of disappointment. He would rather be able to tell us that we were good and faithful servants and that we would be able to experience the joy that awaits those who love and serve Him.
     
  14. Aldebaran

    Aldebaran Star Power!

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    Regarding your signature about "Righteous Living":

    Romans 3:10-12 English Standard Version (ESV)
    10 as it is written:
    “None is righteous, no, not one;
    11 no one understands;
    no one seeks for God.
    12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
    no one does good,
    not even one.”
     
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  15. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    Yes, this is basic kindergarden Truth.
    God's grace was given to some that they
    have a chance to be in covenant with God,
    and be in co-operation with Him during
    the process of salvation ... because
    salvation is conditional (Ref: the NT).
    Verses available upon request,
    although no one ever requests them,
    except for FG2, who has seen them
    countless times in the past.
     
  16. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    This refers to the heathen, non-believers, etc.
    ... before a person receives the Holy Spirit.

    Once a person receives the Spirit,
    he/she is declared righteous and a whole lot more!

    However, this righteous standing must be maintained!
    (Ref: the NT) ... verses available upon request.
     
  17. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    Romans 6:17-18
    "But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."

    Do you notice the tenses in these verses? Though you were (prior to salvation) slaves of sin, you became (the result of salvation) obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, having been freed from sin (the result of salvation), you became (result of salvation) slaves of righteousness.


    Romans 6:6
    "Knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin..."

    Romans 1:7
    "For by the blood of Christ we are set free, that is, our sins are forgiven."
     
  18. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    Be careful in how you choose to respond. Insults won't get you very far.
     
  19. BCsenior

    BCsenior Still an evangelist

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    It's all window dressing, a technicality.

    If they CHOOSE to continue being slaves of sin,
    they are heading for eternal death (6:16, 6:23).

    They have been set free from being slaves of sin.
    They no longer "have to" sin.
    But, IF they do choose to continue, it's curtains!

    Just one more proof that salvation is conditional.

    What do you think of all those conditional
    "IF" verses in Paul's epistles?
     
  20. Sojourner1

    Sojourner1 Following my Shepherd Supporter

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    So if someone continues to sin they are going to hell?
     
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