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Featured You evolve in Heaven? What Changes? Jesus seeks your Evolution out? What does He notice?

Discussion in 'Creation & Theistic Evolution' started by Gottservant, May 22, 2019.

  1. Gottservant

    Gottservant God loves your words, may men love them also Supporter

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    Hi there,

    So I am imagining basically, that in Heaven: anything is possible. But if you are going to evolve, are you really going to pursue anything different to what you already had? I mean is the older the Evolution, not the better?

    And for another thing, we are supposed to be ready for the Master: what is he going to find, if all you have done is evolve? Is that not beating fellow servants, over words that define something other than Creation? And is it not a talent unused, if nothing can improve it?

    I fully understand that men have to be given over to delusion, if they will not praise God, but how are we to live with these self-same men, if we have no part with that delusion? The pharisee that prays "I thank you that I am not like other sinners" is not justified - how then is the reprobate tax collector supposed to consider his way, having nothing to compare it to, beyond Evolution?

    I think, what it is, is that there will be a move of the Holy Spirit, that will plant a seed, that men had not reckoned, on coming from God. This seed, will be what you would be had you kept your word, from the beginning - which is better than having your word changed!

    I mean if Evolution can be restored to what it was, without mutation... who wouldn't want that?
     
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  2. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    You think evolution is like a career path you take in heaven ? Maybe get wings after graduating ?
     
  3. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Any one who believes in evolution calls God a liar. As He said I created the earth in 6 days and rested on the seventh.
     
  4. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    Really? Where does it say that life does not continue to evolve after creation ?
     
  5. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Where does it say it does?

    Death stops all so called evolution dead.

    You are born, grow old, and die, no evolving.

    All life dies, even cells.
     
  6. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    Evolution happens when organisms are alive. I thought you said earlier you understood the concepts of evolution ?
     
  7. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I understand the lies yes.

    Cells die, and when mutation happens, the cells die, never progressing, but digressing.

    There is no recorded cell in history in film showing a healthy living cell that mutated.
     
  8. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    There you go. Took 10 seconds of googling.

     
  9. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not healthy mutating cells, and on top of this, the video, is fake bull crap.

    The whole thing is 3d animated, not real. Its a representation of nothing.

    And on top of this fact, a bunch of animated red lines mean nothing at all.

    Show me a real life mutation, not a bunch of red lines.
     
  10. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    Bit like looking at the world map and saying it is not a real thing ?
     
  11. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Horrible comparison.

    The world map was charted out because its a real thing.

    The fake 3d video is not a map, its a 3d imaginary animation trying to get funding for lots of money.

    You are to easily fooled and this is the sad part.

    I'm not insulting you, am not, just saying if you believe this video is real mutations, then we can no longer converse in this debate.
     
  12. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    Inside my tears are many but unseen.
     
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  13. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    Indeed, mutations are fairly common but the genome is equipped with molecular mechanisms that repair them almost constantly. Here's one:

    [​IMG]
    DNA ligase, shown above repairing chromosomal damage, is an enzyme that joins broken nucleotides together by catalyzing the formation of an internucleotide ester bond between the phosphate backbone and the deoxyribose nucleotides. (DNA repair)
    Spontaneous mutations do happen but the idea that this is how things adapt over time to me seems highly unlikely. There has to be a better explanation due to the highly deleterious effects of mutations and the very rare beneficial effect on an evolutionary scale.
     
  14. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    Which is why evolution is a slow process and hard to "show on film" ?
     
  15. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But some how can be seen on this film that is fake. Amazing, we can now watch what takes millions of years to happen in a short 3d animated video.
     
  16. Jonathan Walkerin

    Jonathan Walkerin Active Member

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    Amazing indeed. I have even known a few people who died from cell mutation turned cancer. It really did not take them that long.
     
  17. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There you go, every mutation is un-healthy, there is no such thing as a healthy adaptive changing mutation. Cells divide, Making new cells, some of the cells are not healthy and mutate causing death.

    There is no mutation that is recorded that is good mutation, this was my whole point to begin with,

    When any mutation happens it causes death, every time, not change.
     
  18. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    You won't catch it on film, maybe bits and pieces. Adaptive evolution whether or not it's over time or happens in a generation or two happens as the result of actual molecular mechanisms designed for that specific purpose. This is close to the atomic level, so yea, it's hard to catch in the act. But spontaneous mutations are the worst possible explanation.
     
  19. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Adaptive evolution? So the evolution adapts? before death stop it?

    Say its not so.

    I'm not mocking you, Just showing how so called educated sounding terms do not prove anything.

    molecular mechanisms designed for that specific purpose?

    Complex , very complex machinery mechanisms that are what?

    Parts of cells and the cell structure.

    And there is no video or real time example, its a easy way to hide evolution but still debate its real.

    There is no atomic level, this is also a made up fake term not relating to anything real.
     
  20. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    They now know of some of those molecular mechanisms, one of those discovered is now the most powerful gene editing tool in the world:

    SPECTER: CRISPR is actually an ancient bacterial defense system. It's like an immune system for bacteria, which is surprising because for a long time, scientists didn't think bacteria had adaptive immune systems. But in 1987, some Japanese scientists were looking for something in DNA, and they saw this weird group of nucleotides, pieces of DNA. They had no idea what they were doing and what they meant and what their function was. And in a piece they published in The Journal of Bacteriology, the last sentence literally was, and we saw this weird, crazy group of nucleotides, and we have no idea what they're doing there. And that was that. And that was not for a very long time. (New Gene-Editing Techniques Hold the Promise Of Altering The Fundamentals Of Life. NPR)
    Again and again I have heard to argument of mutations plus selection equals evolution. This argument was specifically applied to the adaptation of plants, animals and especially to bacteria for decades. As it turns out there was an actual molecular mechanism that specifically targeted the immune system of bacteria. Once isolated this mechanism became the most powerful gene editing tool in the world, the full rights now owned by MIT.

    What all of them are we are only beginning to understand but there are molecular mechanisms involved in adaptive evolution that are a natural part of genomes. That is exactly what a creationist would expect given a sound reliance on the divine providence of a sovereign creator. My point was and is, adaptive evolution is not a product of chance, it's a part of design. God designed and built living systems to build, grow and adapt.

    As a part of what? As a part of living systems as God intended, evolution isn't an affront to creation, it's a viable proof of it since there is no naturally occurring process that could produce it apart from an originally created kind.

    Four thousand years ago a limited number of mammals, birds and reptiles emerge from the ark and become, by a rough estimate, between 2 to 60 million species globally. Now unless God continued to create species the only logical explanation is they evolved according to the plans and purposes of God.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
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