You die and stand before God as a non-believer...what do you feel?

[zephcom]

Thanks for sharing.

IMO I didn't find much of his teachings in the four canonical gospels to be profound.

You are apparently in the majority of the people. Even the Christians pretty much don't find it profound.

I will say though that it didn't strike me as all that profound for years. It wasn't until I read the Gospels written in conversational English as found in The Message and formatted in paragraphs instead of verses.

 

[Nithavela]

I think we'd share a good laugh or two.

 

[pat34lee]

God is incapable of bringing the truth to light without a 'judgment'?

That seems to me someone is trying to limit God's ability.

The judgment isn't for him. It is for us.
"I didn't do anything wrong."
Ever hear that?
Sometimes we even believe it when we say it.

 

[pat34lee]

Nice to see another Deist!

I think that if I were awarded Heaven I would have one question: "Does everyone get Heaven?"

If He said, "No." I would request to be sent to the other place. I have no use for a God too tiny and restricted to not be able to figure out a way to get everyone in.

He did. We either accept or we don't. It's our choice.
Would you be happier if he forced us to do right and
go to heaven? Christians mostly don't even want to
hear that he gave us a list of foods to eat and those
we shouldn't eat.

 

[zephcom]

The judgment isn't for him. It is for us.
"I didn't do anything wrong."
Ever hear that?
Sometimes we even believe it when we say it.

As I said, God is incapable of bringing truth to light without judgment? Judging others doesn't provide any assurance that people will accept the judgment as being accurate any more than simply providing truth will ensure it is accepted.

 

[zephcom]

He did. We either accept or we don't. It's our choice.

Then I won't go to Heaven even if invited. But you are assuming that some writing on paper is the same thing as God actually saying it, right?

 

[quatona]

He did. We either accept or we don't. It's our choice.
Would you be happier if he forced us to do right and
go to heaven? Christians mostly don't even want to
hear that he gave us a list of foods to eat and those
we shouldn't eat.

And yet they get to heaven. There must be a miraculous transformation event from being a sinning person on earth to being a not sinning person in Heaven. So the alternative isn´t "forcing us to do right" (because according to Christian theology doing right isn´t a requirement for getting to Heaven, in the first place), the alternative would be transforming everyone that way while being on their way from earth to Heaven.

 

[quatona]

For non-believers here (or maybe ex-christians too), since you feel God is not real, what would your reaction be when you die and you stand before God? Mind you your destination after you see Him is already set and unchangeable.

To be clear: You mean in case my "destination" is eternal torment?
I guess I´d just show Him my empathy for His position between a rock and a hard place. He´s said to be a good and loving God, so He certainly suffers from the fact that - due to whatever limitation He has (be it His "nature" or self-imposed or pre-existing "laws" or whatever) - can´t allow me to Heaven and has to send me to eternal torment.
Also, He had sent His son in order to punish him on our behalf - and yet to no avail.
I know what being limited that way feels like (after all, my "nature" was: being sinful).
So I think we can use the moment for connecting in the common tragedy of "being limited/restricted" and the ambiguity between our feelings/desires/needs and these limitations.

 

[pat34lee]

Then I won't go to Heaven even if invited. But you are assuming that some writing on paper is the same thing as God actually saying it, right?

How bout 3000+ years of history?

 

[pat34lee]

To be clear: You mean in case my "destination" is eternal torment?

If the gift of God is eternal life for those who believe on him (Romans 6:23)
then why would he make sinners immortal only to punish them forever?
Satan is another story. He and the angels were created immortal.

From what I understand, when we wake from death to judgment, those
who chose to deny God will be thrown into the lake of fire, where they
will go fzzt like a piece of straw burning up, and they will be gone forever.

 

[zephcom]

How bout 3000+ years of history?

Humans writing something on papyrus is still humans trying to put human wishes and desires into God's mouth.

 

[pat34lee]

Humans writing something on papyrus is still humans trying to put human wishes and desires into God's mouth.

Humans lived through all that time, and not all of God's works
are limited to the Bible. Especially over the last 2-3 thousand years.

 

[quatona]

If the gift of God is eternal life for those who believe on him (Romans 6:23)
then why would he make sinners immortal only to punish them forever?

I was just asking for clarification what the OP meant.
But since you asked: I don´t know why a lot of religious doctrines make no sense.
On another note: I keep hearing Christians say that we all are sinners.

Satan is another story. He and the angels were created immortal.

Your question applies here, too: Why did God create them immortal only to punish them forever?

From what I understand, when we wake from death to judgment, those
who chose to deny God will be thrown into the lake of fire, where they
will go fzzt like a piece of straw burning up, and they will be gone forever.

Not sure what the point is in resurrecting someone from death just in order to destroy them that way, either.
But it´s irrelevant to the thread question, anyway.

 

[pat34lee]

I was just asking for clarification what the OP meant.
But since you asked: I don´t know why a lot of religious doctrines make no sense.
On another note: I keep hearing Christians say that we all are sinners.

Your question applies here, too: Why did God create them immortal only to punish them forever?


Not sure what the point is in resurrecting someone from death just in order to destroy them that way, either.
But it´s irrelevant to the thread question, anyway.

Far from being irrelevant to the OP, it goes to the heart of it.
Judgment, and either life or death is on the line at that time.
I won't be looking at anyone else's judgment, and they will
be dealing with their own, and not mine or yours. We won't
be standing before the most powerful people on the planet.
They will be kneeling somewhere right along with the rest of
us. If you cannot imagine total awe and wonder now, you will
know it at that time. Can you imagine all the power that made
the universe, looking at your soul individually, asking you to
justify your life? I can't.

 

[quatona]

Far from being irrelevant to the OP, it goes to the heart of it.
Judgment, and either life or death is on the line at that time.
I won't be looking at anyone else's judgment, and they will
be dealing with their own, and not mine or yours. We won't
be standing before the most powerful people on the planet.
They will be kneeling somewhere right along with the rest of
us. If you cannot imagine total awe and wonder now, you will
know it at that time. Can you imagine all the power that made
the universe, looking at your soul individually, asking you to
justify your life? I can't.

Cool story, bro.

 

[Nithavela]

I really miss the option of joking around a bit and going from there.

Hey, it worked for Thomas Blood.

 

[Skavau]

The judgment isn't for him. It is for us.
"I didn't do anything wrong."
Ever hear that?
Sometimes we even believe it when we say it.

I have done many things wrong.

None of those acts taken individually, or the sum total of them collectively warrant eternal torment.

 

[Skavau]

He did. We either accept or we don't. It's our choice.
Would you be happier if he forced us to do right and
go to heaven? Christians mostly don't even want to
hear that he gave us a list of foods to eat and those
we shouldn't eat.

I'd be happier if he didn't create a place of eternal torment for those who fail what is in effect, a rigged test that favours people who happen to be bought up in a Christian environment.

 

[Skavau]

If the gift of God is eternal life for those who believe on him (Romans 6:23)
then why would he make sinners immortal only to punish them forever?
Satan is another story. He and the angels were created immortal.

From what I understand, when we wake from death to judgment, those
who chose to deny God will be thrown into the lake of fire, where they
will go fzzt like a piece of straw burning up, and they will be gone forever.

Oh. You're an annihilationist.

That's better, but still not brilliant.

 

[Nithavela]

Oh. You're an annihilationist.

That's better, but still not brilliant.

I can't see how it is better. It just offers a different flavor of righteousness for the squeamish.

 

[Skavau]

I can't see how it is better. It just offers a different flavor of righteousness for the squeamish.

It at least isn't sadistic.