You did not chose Me, I chose you.

bobsmename

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The Bible says there is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:16-17). There are commands that are not attached with warnings of burning in the Lake of Fire if we do not keep them unlike other commands. I did not write these commands either. Yet, I believe them. Do you? It does not appear so.
So you believe in sin and still be saved in some regards? Methinks it is sin and still be saved if it is you doing the sinning(in your view)
 
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Ive ha a question for you. When the Israelites wandered through the wilderness, a man collected firewood on the Sabbath. God said he must immediately be stoned to death. David broke three of the Ten Commandments one after the other concerning Bathsheeba, coveting, adultery, murder. Why was David forgiven but the other man killed?

God knows a person's heart, and God knows all possibilities for a person's life and how they would live if option A happened to them, or option B happened to them. God knows us better than we know ourselves. God killed the man who broke the Sabbath because he undoubtedly is the kind of person who is seeking to justify sin as a way of life. With David, God knew that he would repent (of which we get to see in Psalms 51). For David was a man after God's own heart. While David slipped up into sin, he was a son because he did not always seek to justify sin his whole life. He admitted his error and sought to make things right with the Lord. Therein lies the difference.
 
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Abraham didn't lie eh? Well OK, if that's how you want to see it

That's not how I want to see it. It is simply what the Bible says.

Abraham said this,
"And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife." (Genesis 20:12).
 
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So you believe in sin and still be saved in some regards? Methinks it is sin and still be saved if it is you doing the sinning(in your view)

Again, I did not write the Bible. God did. If you have an issue with it, take it up with Him. Not all sin is the same (according to the Bible). There are grievous sins that lead unto spiritual death, and there are minor infractions or hidden faults that do not lead to spiritual death.

Grievous sin is another name for a "sin unto death"
(Note: To check out the reference to the "sin unto death," see: 1 John 5:16).
(i.e. death = spiritual death or the second death) (Note: The second death is destruction in the Lake of Fire - Revelation 21:8).

"And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;" (Genesis 18:20).​

Examples of Grievous Sin:

#1. Not loving God, and not loving your neighbor (For loving God and loving your neighbor is a part of eternal life; See: Luke 10:25-28 cf. Matthew 19:17-19; Not loving Jesus (God) means one is accursed, see: 1 Corinthians 16:22; As for not loving your neighbor, see the Parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:29-37), and then see number #5 below).

#2. Looking at a woman in lust = danger of being cast bodily into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).

#3. Not forgiving = not being forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15).

#4. One can be condemned by their words (Matthew 12:37).

#5. Not helping the poor or the unfortunate = Going away into everlasting punishment (or everlasting fire) (Matthew 25:31-46).

#6. No man who puts his hand to the plow (i.e. one who spreads the gospel and teachings to lead men of God into holiness by His Word) and looks back (turns away from doing so) is fit for the Kingdom of God (Luke 9:62) (Note: See the KJV rendering on this verse).

#7. 1 John 3:15 says, "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

#8. Galatians 5:19-21 says, "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Meaning, those who do these kinds of sins will not inherit (enter) God's kingdom (i.e. they will not be saved). For entering God's kingdom is associated with salvation in Matthew 25:34 (Note: Paul is mentioning the violation of the Moral Law. The Moral Law is the same equivalent as loving your neighbor; See Romans 13:8-10).

#9. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8).

Minor infractions or faults of character is another name for a "sin not unto death" (i.e. not unto death = not unto spiritual death or the second death) (Note: While the "sin not unto death" mentioned in 1 John 5:17 is in context to confessed sin in John's epistle (See: 1 John 1:9), it can be extended loosely to refer to the kind of sins that do not lead to spiritual death by it's very name).

"Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults."
(Psalms 19:12).​

Examples of Sins That Do Not Lead Unto Spiritual Death:

#1. 1 John 5:17 mentions the "sin not unto death."
In context to 1 John 5: This would be talking about confessed grievous sin that one is striving to overcome with the Lord's help (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 13:14). In 1 John 5, the brethren are praying for this believer to have victory (life) over their sin as this believer confesses their sin.

#2. Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).

#3. The Command to Be Baptized.
Paul says Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). If it was essential to salvation, then why would Paul say something like this? In 1 Peter 3:21: Peter says baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. If you were to turn to 2 Corinthians 7:1, you would see that it uses similar wording ("filthiness of the flesh") that is clearly in reference to sin. So Peter is saying that baptism is not for the putting away of "sin" [i.e. filth of the flesh]. In other words, baptism is not a command that if disobeyed, leads to spiritual death.

#4. Other Commands in the New Testament that do not seem like a major violation of loving God and loving your neighbor that have no death penalties attached to them. One example would be the command to Rejoice when men persecute you or falsely accuse you of evil in Matthew 5:11-12.

Real world examples: Going 5 miles per hour over the speed limit in area that is not life threatening to others. Not taking out the trash yesterday when it was a little stinky. These minor transgressions would obviously not send a Christian to hell.

But we as Christians strive to obey and do good in all things in the Lord. We strive to keep His commandments. For it is written,

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.' (1 John 5:3).​


Side Note:

Please understand that it is not possible for a person to obey God's commands without them first being saved by Jesus Christ and His grace (i.e. by seeking forgiveness of their sin with Him, and believing in His death, and resurrection on their behalf). For Christians are initially and ultimately saved by Jesus Christ.
 
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bobsmename

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God knows a person's heart, and God knows all possibilities for a person's life and how they would live if option A happened to them, or option B happened to them. God knows us better than we know ourselves. God killed the man who broke the Sabbath because he undoubtedly is the kind of person who is seeking to justify sin as a way of life. With David, God knew that he would repent (of which we get to see in Psalms 51). For David was a man after God's own heart. While David slipped up into sin, he was a son because he did not always seek to justify sin his whole life. He admitted his error and sought to make things right with the Lord. Therein lies the difference.
It might surprise you to know, I agree with the gist of what you have written. According to the letter of the covenant in force, David should have been killed, but was not, unlike the other man, though David can be said to have committed the greater sin. So what was literally written concerning the law, and covenant in scripture, in the case of David we can say was put aside, because, as you say, he was a man after God's own heart. Its a pity you cannot translate that into the new covenant, you might learn much
 
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bobsmename

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Again, I did not write the Bible. God did. If you have an issue with it, take it up with Him. Not all sin is the same (according to the Bible). .
No, it seems neither of us have an issue with sin and still be saved. What you arguing about
 
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bobsmename

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That's not how I want to see it. It is simply what the Bible says.

Abraham said this,
"And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife." (Genesis 20:12).
I know, you do not see it as wrong, if a man omits to tell another he is married to someone, leaving the man to take the woman into his palace to be his wife
 
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It might surprise you to know, I agree with the gist of what you have written. According to the letter of the covenant in force, David should have been killed, but was not, unlike the other man, though David can be said to have committed the greater sin. So what was literally written concerning the law, and covenant in scripture, in the case of David we can say was put aside, because, as you say, he was a man after God's own heart. Its a pity you cannot translate that into the new covenant, you might learn much

As I said, I am not stating that believers cannot stumble into sin and or even struggle with sin. But I believe they will immediately confess of their sin when under conviction by the Spirit, and in time they will overcome sin in time if they are pure of heart and they are not seeking to justify sin as a way of life like many Eternal Security proponents and or many Belief Alone Proponents do. I also believe that a believer can fall away and die spiritually and be like the prodigal son and God can call them back to salvation again (as long as they did not reject Jesus as their Savior). So yeah, I believe God is merciful, but His Word also talks about how we need to live holy as a part of being in His Kingdom, too (See Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 12:14, Matthew 5:8). If not, then God's grace is turned into a license for immorality (which is wrong) (Please see: Jude 1:4).
 
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renniks

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) Christ never truly knew them by the fact that they were accepting ahead of time that they could sin after being a Christian (in their acceptance of Jesus), means they were accepting a false Jesus or gospel, or...
We accept Jesus'sacrifice for us. We confess our sins. We don't rely on our sinlessness for salvation. If we do, we aren't accepting Christ, but works salvation. Paul said if you go back to the law, Christ will be of no use to you. There are many versions of the law, that people create to try to get to heaven.
 
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It might surprise you to know, I agree with the gist of what you have written. According to the letter of the covenant in force, David should have been killed, but was not, unlike the other man, though David can be said to have committed the greater sin. So what was literally written concerning the law, and covenant in scripture, in the case of David we can say was put aside, because, as you say, he was a man after God's own heart. Its a pity you cannot translate that into the new covenant, you might learn much

If David persisted in his sins of adultery and murder and he just believed God was His Savior (belief alone-ism) he would have perished. But David was not like that, though. David sought forgiveness with God over what he did. He was genuine with GOD and he did not seek to justify sin and evil as a way of life.
 
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We accept Jesus'sacrifice for us. We confess our sins. We don't rely on our sinlessness for salvation. If we do, we aren't accepting Christ, but works salvation. Paul said if you go back to the law, Christ will be of no use to you. There are many versions of the law, that people create to try to get to heaven.

The context of the kind of Law Paul was referring to was the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or contract, and he was not referring to the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), or the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), or the Perfect Law of Liberty (James 1:25), or the command to believe in Jesus (1 John 3:23), or the new commandment by Jesus to love the brethren in the same way that Jesus did (John 13:34).
 
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renniks

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Also, you are ignoring the facts. Jesus cast them out because they worked iniquity or lawlessness.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

What is the father's will?
John 3:23 tells us explicitly that it is the will of the Father that we believe in Christ. Notice we are commanded to believe in Christ.

And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 1 John 3:23 (NASB)

And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12 (NASB)

God desires that every man and woman believe in Jesus Christ, but not everyone will obey. Only by believing in Jesus Christ will any person obey this command and go to heaven.
 
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We accept Jesus'sacrifice for us. We confess our sins. We don't rely on our sinlessness for salvation. If we do, we aren't accepting Christ, but works salvation. Paul said if you go back to the law, Christ will be of no use to you. There are many versions of the law, that people create to try to get to heaven.

Then why confess sin if it is not in our righteousness?
We should be able to live like the devil with God giving us the thumb's up to enter God's Kingdom if things are as you propose.
 
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BNR32FAN

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for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfil his good purpose. Phil2:13

There are many more like this. I only know of one Christian experience, it is based on the foundation upon which the new covenant stands. And I can say in all honesty, it is God who has kept me with him, not the other way around

Does that one verse sum up the message Paul was giving?

“So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Do all things without grumbling or disputing; so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Yes God is at work in us but He does not take control over us. We must work in cooperation with His guidance. Hence Ephesians 4:30. What is your interpretation of John 15:1-10? If what you say is true, how is a person capable of failing to remain in Christ?
 
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bobsmename

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What does it mean to have the law written in your mind and placed on your heart? In your mind you must know what has been placed there, therefore you know the basis of how God wants you to live. If the law is in your heart, you in your heart want to obey it. How does this play out in a practical sense?
Think of the person you love most in this world, in your heart you want to please them, for you love them. But though you love them dearly, you will never act perfectly towards them. When you offend a person who you in your heart love and want to please, how do you react? Can you say 'I don't care that I just offended that person, iot does not bother me at all, they love me so they will not send me away' It is impossible to take that view if you love the person. You will be struck by a conscience, and you will have no rest and no peace until you go to that person and tell them you are sorry for how you acted, only then will right relationship be restored and you get your peace back. So it is with God if his laws are in your heart. Licence to sin removed.
The old covenant was very different, it was an external law, written on parchments and engraved in stone. A written down law does not mean you in your heart want to obey it. An internal law placed in your heart is a very different thing
 
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bobsmename

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Does that one verse sum up the message Paul was giving?

“So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Do all things without grumbling or disputing; so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Yes God is at work in us but He does not take control over us. We must work in cooperation with His guidance. Hence Ephesians 4:30. What is your interpretation of John 15:1-10? If what you say is true, how is a person capable of failing to remain in Christ?
Jesus said he would never lose any of those the Father had given him. It is best to read the bible as one cohesive whole, then meditate on it, then draw your conclusions

Ifr you like I can give you many more verses of Paul. He says the believer cannot be righteous by observing the law. If you observe the law you do not commit sin. Think on it
 
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21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Well, Jesus is telling them to go away from them because they are evil doers! Evil doers are working lawlessness, iniquity or sin. That is why they are cast out. It is true that not everyone who says unto Him, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven (i.e. Belief Alone-ism). The will of God is our Sanctification according to 1 Thessalonians 4:3. This kind of sanctification is in relation to abstaining from fornication (Which is sin). So God wants us to do the will of God the Father by entering the Sanctification Process of living holy. That is God's will for our life, and not disobedience to God's commands. God is not the minister of sin or unrighteousness to agree with our sin.

You said:
What is the father's will?
John 3:23 tells us explicitly that it is the will of the Father that we believe in Christ. Notice we are commanded to believe in Christ.

Skip back up to the condemnation mentioned in John 3:19-21.
John 3:20 says everyone who does evil hates the light.
The light is God. Do those who do evil and hate God going to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? Surely not.

You said:
And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 1 John 3:23 (NASB)

Right, you have to also love one another (Which is a work). John says that the person who does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).

You said:
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12 (NASB)

Yeah, skip back a chapter and you will read this:

"And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people." (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

Jesus is that prophet!
Anyone who does not hear (obeys) that prophet JESUS, they will be destroyed.
This is why Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him. This is why Jesus says that the person who does not do what He says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

You said:
God desires that every man and woman believe in Jesus Christ, but not everyone will obey. Only by believing in Jesus Christ will any person obey this command and go to heaven.

No. Believing in Jesus implies that we believe everything He taught, said, and did.
If we do not obey Jesus, we really do not trust Him or believe in Him.

For example: If Rick said that his old rocking chair on his porch was able to hold his weight, and he said he believed that with all his heart, would he truly be showing forth that his statement of faith was true if he never sat in the chair? Especially if he was asked to sit in it and yet he refused to do so? In other words, if Rick believed that his porch chair would hold his weight (and he told others this), he would no doubt take the action necessary by sitting in that chair to prove that such a statement was true. Otherwise it would just be an empty profession of faith. In other words, if a person says they love God, and they have no visible good fruit to show that such a thing is true, then it would be just an empty profession of faith that they love God. Meaning, they really do not love God. It would just be a paying of lip service. I mean, a man can say he loves his wife, but if he does nothing to please her in any way, then he really does not love her. Action shows forth whether one's faith is the genuine and the real article vs. it being fake.
 
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renniks

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Actually, no. Abraham did not lie. Sarah was his half sister. So he did not lie in saying that she was his sister. It was a true statement. Not telling the whole truth on something is not lying
Yes, it certainly is. It's called being dishonest ...same thing
 
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