You can't chose to believe something can you?

[Halbhh]

I didn't choose to believe in Jesus, the Holy Spirit is the reason I can and do.

I didn't choose to believe in predestination, the Bible says God chose us and predestinates so I believe the word of God.

I didn't choose to believe in the Trinity, the Bible says these 3 testify as 1. The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.

I didn't choose to believe 1+1=2.

So, in reality, we can't force ourselves to believe something, right?

A person can't choose whether to believe, but they can choose whether or not to seek Him (whether to follow that urge to seek Him) --

7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."
Matthew 7 NIV

A choice we still need to make, over and over....

 

[Hammster]

I will let you discern how Thomas came to believe.
Blessings

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.

Ah. So we need to be able to touch Jesus to believe the resurrection?

 

[Hammster]

A person can't choose whether to believe, but they can choose whether or not to seek Him (whether to follow that urge to seek Him) --

Why seek for something that you don’t believe in?

 

[Halbhh]

Why seek for something that you don’t believe in?

Good point. It's a leap of faith to seek. (I worded that a little differently -- to "follow the urge", which is that very same leap of faith, or moment of belief)

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Ah. So we need to be able to touch Jesus to believe the resurrection?

I respectively bow out of this conversation. We do not have the same understanding of God's character.
Blessings

 

[Hammster]

I respectively bow out of this conversation. We do not have the same understanding of God's character.
Blessings

I think God loves His people and ensures that He will spend eternity with them.

 

[ace of hearts]

I didn't choose to believe in Jesus, the Holy Spirit is the reason I can and do.

I didn't choose to believe in predestination, the Bible says God chose us and predestinates so I believe the word of God.

I didn't choose to believe in the Trinity, the Bible says these 3 testify as 1. The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.

I didn't choose to believe 1+1=2.

So, in reality, we can't force ourselves to believe something, right?

Ok so we're robots having no free will. So why participate here? After all we can't do anything.

 

[Hammster]

Ok so we're robots having no free will. So why participate here? After all we can't do anything.

These discussions go much better without the pejorative statements.

According to scripture, is the unregenerate man in bondage? Is he a slave to sin?

 

[ace of hearts]

These discussions go much better without the pejorative statements.

According to scripture, is the unregenerate man in bondage? Is he a slave to sin?

At issue is whether or not we have a free will.

 

[Hammster]

At issue is whether or not we have a free will.

Exactly. You didn’t answer that one, so I’ll ask this one. Can man act outside of his nature?

 

[DamianWarS]

I didn't choose to believe in Jesus, the Holy Spirit is the reason I can and do.

I didn't choose to believe in predestination, the Bible says God chose us and predestinates so I believe the word of God.

I didn't choose to believe in the Trinity, the Bible says these 3 testify as 1. The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.

I didn't choose to believe 1+1=2.

So, in reality, we can't force ourselves to believe something, right?

Could not the same logic be applied to free will? "I don't choose free will, it is the framework that is given to me"

The OP is a bit of a straw man. "Oh didn't you know, since 1+1=2 predestination must be true" well didn't you know that since 2+2=4 free will must be true. See, it doesn't work that way either.

 

[ace of hearts]

Exactly. You didn’t answer that one, so I’ll ask this one. Can man act outside of his nature?

I'm sorry you didn't understand what I said. The issue is do we have a free will. I agreed by posting yes we're robots. Robots have no free will. They act on command.

Now for your question. What do you mean? Your question is to broad. Who is "he" since you give no indication?

If it's man you refer to the answer is yes, upon redemption. Or it can be approached with James statement in Jam 1:14.

 

[A_Thinker]

I didn't choose to believe in Jesus, the Holy Spirit is the reason I can and do.

I didn't choose to believe in predestination, the Bible says God chose us and predestinates so I believe the word of God.

I didn't choose to believe in the Trinity, the Bible says these 3 testify as 1. The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.

I didn't choose to believe 1+1=2.

So, in reality, we can't force ourselves to believe something, right?

I think that you, perhaps, do choose what you believe ...

Consider the Pharisees, for example, ... they saw Jesus' miracles, and teachings, etc. Yet they refused to believe, preferring, in some cases, to attribute Jesus' works to Satan.

People, today, give various reasons to believe or not believe. These reasons typically embody some more personal motivations and impulses than strict belief/unbelief ...

 

[BobRyan]

I didn't choose to believe in Jesus, the Holy Spirit is the reason I can and do.

I didn't choose to believe in predestination, the Bible says God chose us and predestinates so I believe the word of God.

1. The Bible says God predestines based on foreknowledge not in the absence of it.

1 Peter 1
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1. The Bible says that even "his own" are not choosing according to His Will for them -- because they have free will.

"He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11

God "enables choice" for all.

Even Calvinists will admit that the Drawing of God , the supernatural drawing of God enables all the "choice" that depravity disables.

And God said "I will draw ALL men unto Me" John 12:32

God is "not willing that ANY should perish " 2 Peter 3 -- and yet in Matthew 7 it is the "many that perish" and the "FEW" that are saved.

Isaiah 5:4 God asks the question that Calvinism says He cannot ask: “What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it? Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?"

The Calvinist answers "I know.. I know... ask me ... I know what He could have done!" -- But God is not asking the Calvinist for his ideas - God says that in the system He created He has done everything and is still getting the unwanted, negative result.

But the Calvinist says "sovereignly choose something ELSE - a different kind of Gospel, one that allows for robots, for zaaaappping the brain to make everyone choose whatever you wish". Something God is not willing to do... not that He can't do that -- but He sovereignly chooses not to do it.

 

[Halbhh]

I think that you, perhaps, do choose what you believe ...

Consider the Pharisees, for example, ... they saw Jesus' miracles, and teachings, etc. Yet they refused to believe, preferring, in some cases, to attribute Jesus' works to Satan.

People, today, give various reasons to believe or not believe. These reasons typically embody some more personal motivations and impulses than strict belief/unbelief ...

That seems right to me, in that we feel a pull, and then we can respond to it, or instead choose the other things that are more worldly.

Is this an instance? --

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Matthew 19 NIV

---------
In 20, the young man isn't satisfied that he is doing what is required to enter life, but feels he still lacks something. In 22, he goes away "sad" (NIV) / "sorrowful" (ESV). If his feeling of lack had been satisfied to hear he would enter life keeping the law, then instead of 'sad' perhaps he might have just 'marveled' or something (say put up his hands with a smile and say 'ah...you are very holy' or something like that), but instead of only surprise he upon choosing to turn away feels sorrow, grief. There is an urge to be in accord with Christ, to follow Him, but the young man chooses instead his luxuries (which he'd have to leave behind as his main activity if he were to follow).

So, there were 2 choices, both having a feeling or urge to them, and he chose between the 2.

 

[Hammster]

I'm sorry you didn't understand what I said. The issue is do we have a free will. I agreed by posting yes we're robots. Robots have no free will. They act on command.

Now for your question. What do you mean? Your question is to broad. Who is "he" since you give no indication?

If it's man you refer to the answer is yes, upon redemption. Or it can be approached with James statement in Jam 1:14.

The context was clear that “he” is the unregenerate man.

So are you saying that yes, he’s a slave to sin? If so, I don’t understand what you mean by “yes, upon redemption”.

 

[Hammster]

I think that you, perhaps, do choose what you believe ...

Consider the Pharisees, for example, ... they saw Jesus' miracles, and teachings, etc. Yet they refused to believe, preferring, in some cases, to attribute Jesus' works to Satan.

People, today, give various reasons to believe or not believe. These reasons typically embody some more personal motivations and impulses than strict belief/unbelief ...

What do you think the difference is between one who “chooses” to believe, and one who “chooses” not to believe?

 

[A_Thinker]

What do you think the difference is between one who “chooses” to believe, and one who “chooses” not to believe?

One desires to believe God, ... while the other desires not to believe.

Jesus said that men's motivations .... we're responsible for whether they come to the light/truth or not ....

John 3

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

When a person makes himself believe, it's called make-belief. It's a pretense. It's not real. No one chooses to genuinely believe something unless they already genuinely believe it. You can't choose to genuinely believe something that you regard as a lie. You can, however, choose to make-believe, and that's not the same thing.

 

[Halbhh]

When a person makes himself believe, it's called make-belief. It's a pretense. It's not real. No one chooses to genuinely believe something unless they already genuinely believe it. You can't choose to genuinely believe something that you regard as a lie. You can, however, choose to make-believe, and that's not the same thing.

Well, instead of already-full-faith, there is at first an urge to seek God, but it's in competition with another urge in us. As in post #21.
Like in post #35, we have two ways to go. Which Paul worded in another way in Romans 8, to follow the Spirit instead of the flesh. Both urges are present. As just above in post #38, some would rather follow the flesh, by choice.